Are there PG members who have worked for a car dealership?

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KungFuMaster
6/18/12 6:54:49PM
I have my sight set on a 2011Toyota Sienna. I may possibly go to the dealership this coming weekend. This will be my first time buying from a major dealership. My previous cars have been bought from small car lots. Is there any difference, and if so, what should I expect?

What stunts will they pull on me and so forth?

I would greatly appreciate the help and advice.

Thanks.
george112
6/18/12 7:00:34PM
They are salesman and they make their money on commission.


Really that is all of the important info you need to go into buying a vehicle from a big dealership


They will over sell the car. Eventually bringing the price to acatully what its worth of your lucky. All the while your thinking your getting a good deal.


I personally will never buy from a big dealership
mrsmiley
6/18/12 7:21:11PM
If you don't leave the lot with a car chances are they'll call you for the next 2 weeks telling you about all the new offers and great deals they got going on.
Keep on dangling a bit until you can snag what you believe is the best deal.
Don't walk out day one with a car.
Shop around and when they call let them know a better deal some other dealership made you (even if it's not true just make it sound believable.)
That's my two cents.
Chael_Sonnen
6/18/12 7:28:45PM
Let me paint you a picture.....

Think of a car dealership like you would Anderson Silva.....both are spineless and both curl up into a ball when confronted.
Adrenaline
6/18/12 7:36:07PM
I despise going to dealerships. The second you pull into the lot you get swarmed by salesman, they are like sharks that sense blood in the water.

The best thing you can do is figure out the real world value of the car you are looking at, use Kelly Blue Book or NADA to get a general idea of what the car is worth. Then shop around locally to get a better idea of what they are going for in your area. The more info you have, the more leverage you have to negotiate a price. As George said, they will try to upsale the vehicle to you and then they will throw a bunch of fancy discounts ect at you to bring the price down to around where it should be so you are left with the impression that you just got a steal of a deal while in reality they really didn't give you any real benefit at all. Also they will probably try to sale you an extended warranty, while this is not a bad idea, you can get a better deal on them by doing it yourself instead of going through the dealership. Of course watch for hidden fees, usually you will have a dealer doc fee, a title fee, and sales tax obviously but some dealership will try sneaking others in that don't make sense.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think car salesmen are bad folks, I have had some that have treated me really well, the last car I bought from a dealership was no hassle at all. My bank screwed up the paperwork on my loan so it wasn't ready the day it was supposed to be but the dealership let me take the car home anyway without paying a cent. I just came back in a day later and cut them a check,

My days of buying "new" vehicles are over though, they depreciate so incredibly much just by driving them off the lot. It makes so much more sense to buy a vehicle that is a couple of years old that has low miles because most manufactures have 100K mile + warranties that are transferable so you still get piece of mind but save thousands. I mostly just buy privately now, it is so much easier (in my opinion) and I have got some screaming deals.

Good luck with the new wheels KFM. Put some spinners on that bitch
warglory
6/18/12 7:36:20PM
There are so many different variables you have to take into consideration.

1. How much money are you willing to put down? The more money you put down up front, the better deal you can negotiate with.

2. The more in demand the car is, the less wiggle room you will get. The car I have now is a 2011 Fiesta, which isn't the flagship model for Ford, but is an incredibly hot commodity in the US because of their performance. If a dealer can pass on you, and sell it to the next guy who walks in the door for a higher price, they will. I don't know how in demand your car is, but if the dealership is in a position where they need to move models off the lot, they will be ready to bargain, guaranteed.

In an age where people can pull up a sticker price from a competitor down the street, there is far less difference in price from one dealership to another. Your best bet in negotiating, is on the extras you can possibly get in a model, and try to keep it as close to base price as possible. Save money with cool shit, a good warranty, which will save you far more money in the long run.
infestructure
6/18/12 7:59:08PM
I try to buy my cars used from my mechanic. I know him and trust him, plus I don't want to pay that premium for having a new car.

In NZ everyone drive Japanese/Korean/German cars, as we cannot afford 5 litre V8s like you yanks (I'm half-yank myself)
Bubbles
6/18/12 8:00:43PM
Chrysler Town & Country is much better than a Sienna
warglory
6/18/12 8:04:13PM

Posted by infestructure

I try to buy my cars used from my mechanic. I know him and trust him, plus I don't want to pay that premium for having a new car.

In NZ everyone drive Japanese/Korean/German cars, as we cannot afford 5 litre V8s like you yanks (I'm half-yank myself)



5 liter v8's? lol I think most Americans would laugh at someone with a car that big these days. Unless of course it had lambo or merc logo on it.

Not to mention, you guys I'm sure get plenty of Holden's and they aren't exactly bred to be rice burners right? haha
george112
6/18/12 8:41:17PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by infestructure

I try to buy my cars used from my mechanic. I know him and trust him, plus I don't want to pay that premium for having a new car.

In NZ everyone drive Japanese/Korean/German cars, as we cannot afford 5 litre V8s like you yanks (I'm half-yank myself)



5 liter v8's? lol I think most Americans would laugh at someone with a car that big these days. Unless of course it had lambo or merc logo on it.

Not to mention, you guys I'm sure get plenty of Holden's and they aren't exactly bred to be rice burners right? haha



Is the term rice burners used In other places other than the US?


For those who don't know its basically anything less then a 6 cylinder with a few exceptions
infestructure
6/18/12 9:15:10PM
Yeah we call em rice burners too, bikes are rice rockets

4 litre Holdens are common, but getting less so. Especially as they get older and with new emission laws. Average car would be a 1.6 litre 4 cylinder.
kopower
6/18/12 9:15:51PM
When buying a new or used vehicle, I always get a consumer reports magazine, and read the reviews. Also, I find that truecar.com is a good site. It researchers how much people are paying for the car, and gives you a rough estimate on what the dealership payed for it. It gives you a good starting point with negotiations.

I agree with the others on shopping around, and having dealerships quote against each other. Also, if you're financing, shop around for the best interest rates as well. The more ammo you have, the better the deal you'll get.

I also like to buy vehicles a year or two old with low miles. So much better deal, and you still have the warranty.
LuckyCharms
6/18/12 9:40:44PM

Posted by kopower

I agree with the others on shopping around, and having dealerships quote against each other. . Also, if you're financing, shop around for the best interest rates as well. The more ammo you have, the better the deal you'll get.





Pookie
6/18/12 9:44:21PM
Just ask them "Where is the good ship..."
shaneTpain
6/18/12 9:54:05PM
Bus passes are cheaper
Adrenaline
6/18/12 10:26:10PM

Posted by infestructure

we cannot afford 5 litre V8s like you yanks (I'm half-yank myself)




In the US we call 5 litre v8's fuel efficient
cowcatcher
6/18/12 11:21:13PM
I was a car salesman in my younger days, and I can tell you that they want to hook you on a monthly payment rather than total sales amount because there's money to be made on the front(off the top) and back(F&I) ends. Make them show you the actual amount you're paying, and go to other dealerships and see what your best quote is. Also, if you like the paint or other features on one at one dealership and another dealership doesn't have that color/bells and whistles on their lot, they will do dealer trades amongst themselves from time to time so figure out what exactly you want it to look like and have in it and you can probably get that exact vehicle at the dealership with the best price.
Gogoplatapus
6/18/12 11:43:52PM
Don't let them fuck you with built in insurance, you'll get a better deal through a 3rd party.

Don't sign anything until you are absolutely sure. Take that shit home, sleep on it. They will pressure you.

Be thorough.

And with that, good luck sir.
KungFuMaster
6/19/12 1:35:03AM
Thank you, guys, for the advice. Some of it, I knew - but some of it, I didn't.

I pretty much know what I want to pay for the car. What I'm afraid of is what Cowcatcher and Adrenaline alluded to which is the hidden fees and hidden methods of making the buyer pay more.

For cowcatcher - Can the dealership jack up the prices on the document fees, registration, smog certification etc? Can I use bargaining strategies to avoid those fees or are those fees FIXED/STANDARD?

From what I've been told by friends and families is - you negotiate the price before telling the seller how you plan on paying for it. I plan to cash this car.

About the car - I have been following this car for two weeks now. When I first saw the car, it was listed for $22,999. A few days went by, the price dropped to $19,999. Just today, the price dropped to $18,999. This tells me the car is a "stress vehicle" - meaning the car has probably been in the lot for a while and not a whole lot of buyers are looking at it or making offers on the car.

2011 Toyota Sienna LE
52,000 miles (really high - I know)
Preowned certified
Listed $18,999

I want to offer 16K for the car. Do you think I should go even lower than 16K? It is my estimate the dealership bought the car through trade in for approximately $15, 000 or less.

And secondly, is this even a good buy - even if I was to get it for 16K - considering the mileage is so high?

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in to help.
Pookie
6/19/12 1:59:39AM
Offer Lower.
pmoney
6/19/12 3:06:00AM
Definitely go low. Go insultingly low. Go 10-12 if you are willing to go 16. If they want to stick to 18, tell them you need tax, title, license and warranty out the door at 18.

Car dealerships don't give a fuck. In their eyes the right car is whatever you want to buy and the right payment is the highest amount possible. And if you are planning on putting a big down payment out there, that makes their dicks VERY hard. You have to let them know that you really don't care about them. You're out for you. Keep that pimp hand strong at all times.

Regarding the mileage, depends on the car. If its CPO, I know a lot of those warranties go to 100,000 miles. I've heard Toyota's are reliable, but I personally have never owned one. Get the vin of the car you are looking for, see if carfax has any info on it. See what the maintenance records are like, or if they exist. If you have all major maintenances on record and oil changed every 3-5 thousand miles, and a dealer warranty for another 40 thousand miles.... that's a good sign. Then again.... that many miles in what is basically no more than two years, along with repeated price slashing raises red flags.... plus lots of stuff can happen and not end up on a carfax.

I guess what I am trying to say.... take everyone's advice here! Get quotes from other Toyota dealerships. Check out truecar.com. Do the research on the VIN. If they don't make a lot of concessions, don't take the car. The ball is in your court, and you have all the leverage in the world. Don't let those fuckers pressure you for one second. They don't get to make money and fuck their wives if they don't sell you a car, and the same goes for any car dealership. If you don't like terms of the deal, if you dont like that sound the car was making, don't do it. There are better cars and better deals to be had. Also, get free shit from them! Those tires look old? You need new ones, free of charge. Gas at 3/4ths? Get them to give you a gas voucher, or take someone from the dealership with you to fill it up on their dime. Is there a floormat missing? You need a new set!
Bubbles
6/19/12 7:47:21AM
also check the upholstery carefully. There may be hidden rips or the plastic siding at the bottom of the middle seats may be taped up. I worked at a car rental company for 2 years and there are so many little things that you can find that can probably knock off some money. Check under the front bumper for any scratches caused by running over a parking block or the rims for any scrapes from scratching curbs.
cowcatcher
6/19/12 8:59:58AM

Posted by KungFuMaster

For cowcatcher - Can the dealership jack up the prices on the document fees, registration, smog certification etc? Can I use bargaining strategies to avoid those fees or are those fees FIXED/STANDARD?

I want to offer 16K for the car. Do you think I should go even lower than 16K? It is my estimate the dealership bought the car through trade in for approximately $15, 000 or less.




To answer the first part of your question, they can charge anything for anything. I once sold floor mats for $800. The smog thing might be a government fee that's fixed, but since that's a CA thing I don't know anything about it. Best advice on that is to negotiate everything. The thing is though, that if you are too much of a ball buster then they will want to wring you out to dry. Sales is a game to people that are good at it, and most salesmen don't want to lose at their own game. You have to be tactful and maintain a friendly demeanor to suck the salesman in a little.

Always offer lower than what's reasonable to start with. Don't insult the guy with an offer of $8k, because when someone did that to me I blew them out the door because they weren't serious, but offer $11 or $12k. Take a look at Kelly's blue book to find out what the car is worth with those kind of miles on it. Kelly's isn't the be all end all, but it's a good reference point, and it shows you did your homework. Also, never assume the amount they got the car for. They might have killed it on a trade in and gotten it for nothing, or they might have bought it for just under sticker at auction. If negotiations get hairy and it's looking like a deal is going to be hard to reach, it might not be bad to ask what they have into it. They won't tell you this right away, but when the going gets tough, they might have to use that as a last ditch effort to make a profit on the vehicle.

EDIT: Also, the stuff I said earlier about dealer trades only applies to new cars.
KungFuMaster
6/19/12 11:54:03AM
Thanks everyone - especially to cowcatcher and Pmoney. You guys have shed new light on my car buying. I was going to offer 16K but now I plan to offer 14K AND I want everything out the door for no more than 17K.

I will jot down all your advices into notes and take them with me to the dealership this weekend.

KungFuMaster
6/25/12 1:21:09PM
Update:

The Sienna I was going to look at disappeared from the inventory on Friday - so I decided to go to another dealership.

I did exactly as Pmoney suggested. My offer was insultingly low.

The manager essentially told me to get the f out but in a professional way. He kindly asked me where I come up with my numbers. I told him - you guys probably got the car from a trade in or you auctioned it for half of what it's worth. Then he starts flexing his crap about out-bidding their competitors and so forth blah blah blah.

"We own this car for this much."...and he shows me the figures.

"Is that what you paid for the car?" I asked.

"It's what we own it for."

Then his tone started to sound condescending and that was when I flexed my crap. I told him - you talk about my insulting offer and yet you insult every customer who comes in here with your inflated pricing - especially on used cars. We own this car for that much - what does that even mean? If you're not going to explain it, then don't even use this so called business term ok. I made you a reasonable offer. The only reason you are not accepting it - is because you know some idiot will come in and buy it for or very close to your asking price.

He just stared at me with a mean look and that's when I left.

This experience gave me an idea of what to expect and what the going prices for the car I want is - so all in all, it was good. Now I just have to offer a bit more next time I go.

prophecy033
6/25/12 2:22:02PM
$800 floor mates? Are you kidding me CC?
cowcatcher
6/25/12 3:24:23PM
I killed it a few times on rustproofing too, but the mats were my coup de grace. Anything above list was in my pocket, so it pays to sell everything, even things that are standard features if you can get a sucker to pay extra for them.

I told you he'd blow you outta there with too low offer of an offer KFM, it's a fine line between low balling and insulting. Tone is everything too. I've gone with a ton of friends and family to help them when buying a car, and usually it works out well for them, although on two occasions they really didn't like someone not involved with the purchase handling the negotiating and spun us out the doors.
KungFuMaster
6/25/12 4:33:18PM
It was a good learning experience for me. I went to see a sienna in which I had no intention of buying. I just went there for the experience. Part of me wants to go back to the same dealership and do all the paper work for a car purchase and then simply walk out.
prophecy033
6/25/12 4:38:10PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

It was a good learning experience for me. I went to see a sienna in which I had no intention of buying. I just went there for the experience. Part of me wants to go back to the same dealership and do all the paper work for a car purchase and then simply walk out.

That would be so fucking awesome KFM. Get all the way to the down payment process and walk out. Waste their time and money just like they do to us. I love that idea
KungFuMaster
6/25/12 4:55:05PM

Posted by prophecy033


Posted by KungFuMaster

It was a good learning experience for me. I went to see a sienna in which I had no intention of buying. I just went there for the experience. Part of me wants to go back to the same dealership and do all the paper work for a car purchase and then simply walk out.

That would be so fucking awesome KFM. Get all the way to the down payment process and walk out. Waste their time and money just like they do to us. I love that idea

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