Matt Hamill vs. Michael Bisping Dissected

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Ydoc
9/9/07 7:23:19PM
Decided to watch the fight a few times and take down some numbers. I counted every strike that hit clean to any where on the body including striking on the ground, and ignored any glancing or guarded blows. I also noted Octagon control throughout each round. And kept track of takedowns and avoided takedowns, even though I don't think the latter deserves points since it is a defensive move.



Round 1:

Matt Hamill: Landed 48 strikes, 2 Takedowns, 4 standing guillotines used for dirty boxing.
Michael Bisping: Landed 30 strikes, 1 avoided takedown, no subs or sub attempts.

Octagon Control: Hamill stalked Bisping most of the round, with Bisping only coming forward to hit and run. At the end of the round Bisping was butt scooting away from a stalking Matt. Hamill won this aspect of the fight in every round.

Standing: Matt
Clinch: Matt
Ground: Matt

Round 2:

Matt Hamill: Landed 16 strikes, 2 takedowns, and had another standing guillotine used for dirty boxing.
Michael Bisping: Landed 14 strikes, had no takedowns but I'll give him a sub attempt for trying to use his rubber guard for a triangle (?).

Octagon Control: Bisping didn't run as much as the first round, instead he took to the outside while Matt stood in the middle stalking Bisping who for the most part jumped in a circle motion.

Standing: Matt
Clinch: Matt
Ground: Matt

Round 3:

Matt Hamill: Landed 23 strikes, 2 takedowns, had a sideway mount 3 different times.
Michael Bisping: Landed 24 strikes*, avoided 4 takedowns, no sub attempts.

Octagon Control: Much like round 2, with Bisping picking his shots but mostly getting stalked by Matt from the middle.

Standing: Bisping
Clinch: Bisping
Ground: Matt

*: Wanted to note I recorded love taps that Bisping did from underneath of Matt that did nothing, but I feel it evens out when you consider Bisping hit more power shots this round.

Judges Scores
Chris Watts: 30-27 for Hamill
Jeff Mullen: 29-28 for Bisping
Cecil Peoples: 29-28 for Bisping

Notes: At no time was Bisping on top of Hamill on the ground. Matt never attempted a single kick, while Michael connected with 10. Matt Hamill is taller than Michael Bisping. I watched the fight multiple times without any sound, so I wouldn't get influenced by Goldy or Rogan.

I gave all 3 rounds to Hamill. The only way Bisping won the 3rd round is if they now give points on avoiding takedowns, which is stupid because that means they need to give points for avoiding strikes and subs then. And even though Matt's hands were down most of the last 2 rounds he blocked most of Bisping's strikes just by covering his face. Any way you work the system Hamill won this fight.

babalu2720
9/9/07 7:31:55PM
Wow, that was reallly helpful and clear...I gave the 2nd and 3rd to Bisping...I don't know u give Hamill the 3rd he was dead tired and Bisping landed manyy more power shots....You maybe changed my mind on the seond rd though and to be honest Hamill really didnt have a ton of ground and pound his ground game was mostly just positioing
whodat
9/9/07 7:32:38PM
At first I thought this was going to be just another "that decision sucked" thread, but I was wrong. Nice research and nice points.
hotrodttt
9/9/07 7:38:45PM
Nice thread , I agree , I gave all three rounds to Hamill , He got cheated so bad , Cecil Peoples should be banned from judging and reffing for life
scoozna
9/9/07 7:41:35PM
Nice breakdown. I could probably find it (but am lazy), what were the judges scores? My impression was that the fight was that it was pretty damn even, but Hamill's pressing forward and takedowns gave him a slight edge. You're numbers seem to prove that out.

nickcuc547
9/9/07 7:41:59PM
i gave bisping the third, at first i was really pissed at the decision, but after watching the fight again round 2 was close, i still think hammil took it but it was closer than i originally thought.
Ydoc
9/9/07 7:42:39PM

Posted by babalu2720

I don't know u give Hamill the 3rd he was dead tired and Bisping landed manyy more power shots.



Yeah... that round was the tightest, and it can really be argued either way. Bisping had some nice shots, including a nice kick, knee, and a good combo right before the fight ended after he snuffed another TD. But Matt was still having his way with him too much on the gorund, getting in sideguard 3 times and hit him with some solid elbows. And that first takedown Matt gets in the round is brutual, as he carries and pushes Bis up against the fence sideways. Matt was also still pushing Michael around by stalking him and commanded the middle of the octagon easily. To me Matt eked out the win for the third round.
garrick
9/9/07 7:47:56PM
nicely done. I gave 2 rounds to Hamill, one to Bisping. It was a wrong decision. But think if Bisping lost, all the UFC's England fans might not find it to cool, therefore popularity of the sport goes down. Not saying it's right though. that's the only thing I can think of. The Hammer Hamill got cheated.
babalu2720
9/9/07 7:51:56PM

Posted by Ydoc


Posted by babalu2720

I don't know u give Hamill the 3rd he was dead tired and Bisping landed manyy more power shots.



Yeah... that round was the tightest, and it can really be argued either way. Bisping had some nice shots, including a nice kick, knee, and a good combo right before the fight ended after he snuffed another TD. But Matt was still having his way with him too much on the gorund, getting in sideguard 3 times and hit him with some solid elbows. And that first takedown Matt gets in the round is brutual, as he carries and pushes Bis up against the fence sideways. Matt was also still pushing Michael around by stalking him and commanded the middle of the octagon easily. To me Matt eked out the win for the third round.



You get look at this fight 100 different times and get 100 different oponions and answers, but i'm glad u did this
cmill21
9/9/07 8:02:46PM
I like Hamill alot more after this fight. He handled the decision very well. He won that fight decisivly. I feel really bad for him, he deserved that fight.
ChokeUout
9/9/07 8:03:18PM
No matter which way you break this down, Hamill got robbed. I had the score 29-28 Hamill, and that's being generous because Hammil was close to winning the third round too.

Basically, I wonder what the score of the fight would have been if this fight was ANYWHERE else but in England.

PS...Who Else thought Matt Hamill was a Bad-ass for walking in to "Born in the USA" while facing a brit, In England? haha
Jackelope
9/9/07 8:12:06PM

Posted by ChokeUout

No matter which way you break this down, Hamill got robbed. I had the score 29-28 Hamill, and that's being generous because Hammil was close to winning the third round too.

Basically, I wonder what the score of the fight would have been if this fight was ANYWHERE else but in England.

PS...Who Else thought Matt Hamill was a Bad-ass for walking in to "Born in the USA" while facing a brit, In England? haha



HAHAH I was just about to make a post concerning this. I didn't want Hammill to win at all going into the fight, but once that song came on I changed my mind and started rooting for him. I thought that was an awesome song pick
Jackelope
9/9/07 8:13:24PM
Oh, and to Ydoc- very nice and thorough post. I'd like to go back over it and watch it myself to count it out, but I trust that your numbers are either right on or very close to it.
MattHughesFan
9/9/07 8:52:19PM


That was a great dissection, it's pretty clear who won that fight and u factually proved it. I'm pretty sure if this fight happened anywhere else but england Hamil would have won. and btw i absolutely went crazy when Hamil came out to Born in the USA and had the American fighter shirt. he will be forever one of my favorite fighters for that. and u could pretty much see Bisping knew he lost after the final bell sounded but for some reason both him nor Rogan gave even the slightest thought that the fight may have gone the wrong way after the decision was read. pretty weird.
Rush
9/9/07 8:58:24PM
Gave you props for saving me the trouble. Well done.

I didn't watch Hamill's reactio to the decision because I was so pissed off, but I can tell you that I would be thinking of leaving the UFC if I was in Matt's position. That would be a real downer considering how much he has improved and how well he did.
bayonetxwork
9/9/07 9:03:36PM
Regardless of who won the the third, Hamill still dominated the majority of the fight. Great work though, mad props to you.
Trapt1nw0nder
9/9/07 9:12:14PM
yea..exactly how i saw it,but it doesnt matter if Bisping got the decision or not.....the ufc(Joe Silva) knows whats up,and he knows damn well that Hamill won that fight.....so im pretty sure we will still be seeing Hamill up against competition like if he pulled off the win..

even at the end of the event Rogan and Goldberg were talking about the fight and Goldberg said.."what did you think about the split vicrory for over Matt Hamill?"


Rogan said "Sweet victory for Micheal Bisping.....blah blah blah"

and Mike Goldberg shaked his head NO in disgust like if it wasnt a sweet victory at all....i dont know what Rogan was thinking..

then while Rogan continued talking about the fight he said

"I know he beat Matt Hamill,and he did win the decision.."

and Mike looked at him funny like "Come on Joe...you know Bisping didnt win that fight fool!"



30-06
9/9/07 9:15:18PM
matt humbly conceded that bisping won fair and square and he gave him a lot of respect for the win.as he was walking away his corner man was telling him that he won that fight . i can't tell you anymore because i'm so disgusted.
Aether
9/9/07 9:25:20PM
Matt definitely didn't win the third and points shouldn't be awarded for takedowns when the guy stands back up immediately and nothing comes as a result of it. Takedowns are given too much credit just for being takedowns, there needs to be a follow-up of punishment or submission attempts for a takedown to be worth points.

I'm pretty sure just about everyone agrees that Hamill won the fight, I don't see much point in dissecting it to further reinforce a point that everyone already agrees on.
fullfighting
9/9/07 9:29:29PM
hamill got hosed.
Trapt1nw0nder
9/9/07 9:32:00PM
Its also pretty cool that 95% of the Internet thinks Hamill got the win...so there is no where to hide for Bisping
Jackelope
9/9/07 9:41:30PM

Posted by Trapt1nw0nder

Its also pretty cool that 95% of the Internet thinks Hamill got the win...so there is no where to hide for Bisping



Haha, yeah and as we learned last night from all the pre-fight interviews Bisping checks the internet a lot. He was mad heated about Hamill calling him out on the internet
chris91301
9/9/07 11:13:27PM

Posted by Trapt1nw0nder

Its also pretty cool that 95% of the Internet thinks Hamill got the win...so there is no where to hide for Bisping



UFC is still babying Bisping to promote for the british crowd. Too bad they dont at least let their ex-fans know the script prior to the fights.
Sam_Rothstein
9/9/07 11:14:22PM
the worst part of it all to me was that bisping talked trash to hamill like he just got done beating his ass for 3 rounds

i won points of bisping since i picked him, but i still think hamill won that fight and that he was screwed
loonytnt
9/9/07 11:58:56PM
matt had a great fight, is there anything the UFC can do to change this or its writin in stone?
DuncanFan819
9/10/07 12:49:56AM
Great breakdown of the fight. I agree with everyone here, Hammil clearly won the fight (personally, I thought 29-28). Bisping handled himself like a classless prick after the fight as well while Hammil showed him a ton of respect. Disgusting.
ocho-cinco
9/10/07 3:06:47AM

Posted by Ydoc

Decided to watch the fight a few times and take down some numbers. I counted every strike that hit clean to any where on the body including striking on the ground, and ignored any glancing or guarded blows. I also noted Octagon control throughout each round. And kept track of takedowns and avoided takedowns, even though I don't think the latter deserves points since it is a defensive move.



Round 1:

Matt Hamill: Landed 48 strikes, 2 Takedowns, 4 standing guillotines used for dirty boxing.
Michael Bisping: Landed 30 strikes, 1 avoided takedown, no subs or sub attempts.

Octagon Control: Hamill stalked Bisping most of the round, with Bisping only coming forward to hit and run. At the end of the round Bisping was butt scooting away from a stalking Matt. Hamill won this aspect of the fight in every round.

Standing: Matt
Clinch: Matt
Ground: Matt

Round 2:

Matt Hamill: Landed 16 strikes, 2 takedowns, and had another standing guillotine used for dirty boxing.
Michael Bisping: Landed 14 strikes, had no takedowns but I'll give him a sub attempt for trying to use his rubber guard for a triangle (?).

Octagon Control: Bisping didn't run as much as the first round, instead he took to the outside while Matt stood in the middle stalking Bisping who for the most part jumped in a circle motion.

Standing: Matt
Clinch: Matt
Ground: Matt

Round 3:

Matt Hamill: Landed 23 strikes, 2 takedowns, had a sideway mount 3 different times.
Michael Bisping: Landed 24 strikes*, avoided 4 takedowns, no sub attempts.

Octagon Control: Much like round 2, with Bisping picking his shots but mostly getting stalked by Matt from the middle.

Standing: Bisping
Clinch: Bisping
Ground: Matt

*: Wanted to note I recorded love taps that Bisping did from underneath of Matt that did nothing, but I feel it evens out when you consider Bisping hit more power shots this round.

Notes: At no time was Bisping on top of Hamill on the ground. Matt never attempted a single kick, while Michael connected with 10. Matt Hamill is taller than Michael Bisping. I watched the fight multiple times without any sound, so I wouldn't get influenced by Goldy or Rogan.

I gave all 3 rounds to Hamill. The only way Bisping won the 3rd round is if they now give points on avoiding takedowns, which is stupid because that means they need to give points for avoiding strikes and subs then. And even though Matt's hands were down most of the last 2 rounds he blocked most of Bisping's strikes just by covering his face. Any way you work the system Hamill won this fight.




I agree with everything except the part about not awarding points for take down stuffs. I agree it is a defensive move, but it can be a hugely influential on a fight. When someone tries to put you on your back, it is from a neutral position (both fighters are standing) so one fighter is stopping the fight from taking place where he would be at a disadvantage. I think it ties into octagon control. When someone gets out of a submission he was already in trouble. Avoiding strikes I think doesn't make much difference. If a guy avoids strikes, and does something afterwards then sure, chalk one up, but he is just running away, then no, he shouldn't get points
Ydoc
9/10/07 6:47:13AM

Posted by ocho-cinco
I agree with everything except the part about not awarding points for take down stuffs. I agree it is a defensive move, but it can be a hugely influential on a fight. When someone tries to put you on your back, it is from a neutral position (both fighters are standing) so one fighter is stopping the fight from taking place where he would be at a disadvantage. I think it ties into octagon control. When someone gets out of a submission he was already in trouble. Avoiding strikes I think doesn't make much difference. If a guy avoids strikes, and does something afterwards then sure, chalk one up, but he is just running away, then no, he shouldn't get points



I wasn't awarding points for avoiding takedowns. Takedowns earn points in my book, and that's something that helps him win that last round in my opinion.
Sheddy
9/10/07 9:00:43AM
Good observation.
Only thing is watching over and over again as opposed to the judges watching it live once.

I had the second and third very close.
Edged it to Bisping in the third with Hamill clearly winning the first.
Would say Hamill got the second too.
LR
9/10/07 9:37:08AM
Hamill clearly won the first, I'd give Bisping the third, the 2nd round in where the argument comes from. This breakdown works in Hamill's favor, but if you just watch the round, it's obvious Hamill did more. More aggression.
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