Why is Mark Coleman considered the 1st UFC HW champ?

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fullerene
11/26/07 8:30:20AM
This has always bothered me, because I think the honor should go to one of three other people:
* Royce Gracie--won the first open weight tournament which included HWs
* Dan Severn--a HW himself who won an open weight tournament
* Vitor Belfort--won a HW only tournament

All of those happened before Coleman even started fighting in the UFC. I can understand discounting the Gracie and Severn wins by saying "open weight" is different than "heavyweight", but Belfort's wins came in a designated HW division and the guys he beat (Telligman and Ferrozo and then Tank Abbott) were all true HWs.
NatedawgThaM
11/26/07 8:40:52AM
probably because they weren't handing out belts and the firt few tournaments were really only to prove which style was the best. I think they only started taking "making tis a true sport" around when Mark Coleman won the title and he happened to be in the 1st tournament that they had the :official" title when they actually wanted to make a long term sport out of this.

I'm a big fan of Mark Coleman . He's my fav. HW. But that's my opinion on why he's the 1st champ. Feel free to correct me.
hippysmacker
11/26/07 10:49:08AM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

probably because they weren't handing out belts and the firt few tournaments were really only to prove which style was the best. I think they only started taking "making tis a true sport" around when Mark Coleman won the title and he happened to be in the 1st tournament that they had the :official" title when they actually wanted to make a long term sport out of this.

I'm a big fan of Mark Coleman . He's my fav. HW. But that's my opinion on why he's the 1st champ. Feel free to correct me.



Makes sense. Its the "official " that makes it official I guess.
fullerene
11/26/07 11:04:03AM
Looking closer at that event (UFC 12) it looks like they decided to do two things:
1) Add weight classes
2) Change the "superfights" to championship matches and the tournaments into #1 contender matches

Belfort still got the short end of the stick since he won the superfight against Tank at the next UFC but the title wasn't on the line then and then, after Mo Smith beat Coleman, it was Abbot instead of Belfort who got the title shot. WTF--typical UFC making divisions and champs to suit them. Just seems kind of wrong that some of the dominant HWs of that UFC era--Kerr, Belfort and Frye--are not considered official "champions" while guys like Smith and Rutten won the belts with 0 and 1 previous UFC fights, respectively.
rcg916
11/26/07 11:33:33AM

Posted by fullerene

Looking closer at that event (UFC 12) it looks like they decided to do two things:
1) Add weight classes
2) Change the "superfights" to championship matches and the tournaments into #1 contender matches

Belfort still got the short end of the stick since he won the superfight against Tank at the next UFC but the title wasn't on the line then and then, after Mo Smith beat Coleman, it was Abbot instead of Belfort who got the title shot. WTF--typical UFC making divisions and champs to suit them. Just seems kind of wrong that some of the dominant HWs of that UFC era--Kerr, Belfort and Frye--are not considered official "champions" while guys like Smith and Rutten won the belts with 0 and 1 previous UFC fights, respectively.



These were times where they werent exactly making much money... I dont think they were crowning the champions that they wanted, I think that financially they were finally in a place to step up the presentation a little, adding belts and titles, whereas before they were concentrating on shocking the world with the product... Just my opinion, of course, and I agree that there were better guys that missed out on gold that deserved it, but I dont think they were "working" the title scene...
JimiMak
11/26/07 4:53:35PM
You do know the story w/ Tank going "from the barstool to the Octagon" right? He wasn't the guy picked to fight Mo, it was Severn. Tank was there. That's why he got that title shot. He'd never be allowed to fight in that condition now.

It all comes down to when you officially crowned champs. How can you argue that someone who never won the belt "deserves" to be called champ more than a guy that won the belt? The other guys weren't considered HW champs cuz they weren't. Simple.
fullerene
11/26/07 6:50:08PM

Posted by JimiMak

You do know the story w/ Tank going "from the barstool to the Octagon" right? He wasn't the guy picked to fight Mo, it was Severn. Tank was there. That's why he got that title shot. He'd never be allowed to fight in that condition now.

It all comes down to when you officially crowned champs. How can you argue that someone who never won the belt "deserves" to be called champ more than a guy that won the belt? The other guys weren't considered HW champs cuz they weren't. Simple.


Belfort winning a HW tourneyin impressive fashion and then beating an established UFC fighter in Tank Abbott made him more qualified to fight for a title than either the guy he beat (Tank) or a guy who had 0 fights in the UFC (Smith). Those were the guys who got the title shots. Wins are greater than administrative decisions in telling me who the best fighters are...that's simple.
jomatty
11/26/07 7:41:17PM
i dont know that story...any other details would be appreciated.
JimiMak
11/26/07 9:32:50PM

Posted by jomatty

i dont know that story...any other details would be appreciated.



No problem, bro. Severn was supposed to fight for the title. He broke his hand or wrist in training. When he couldn't fight on extremely short notice they were really left up in the air for what to do on a main event. (keep in mind this is before commissions needing to grant permission before a fight, before there was really a top ten list, most ppl had no fights in UFC before winning a tourney and getting a title shot {what mo had done to win it}) Tank was in town doin publicity for UFC but wasn't scheduled to fight. A UFC promoter literally walked down the street to find Tank at a local bar and offer him the title fight. Tank walked almost literally from the barstool to the Octagon. You can tell lookin at him walk to the ring he was in a condition most of us would never drive in. He never did great in the fight but made it go quite long. At the end of the fight he was trying to square off in boxing stance w/ Mo and took three consequetive standing kicks to the head and verbally tapped throwing down his hand and walking out (it looked like he was about to get ko'd and quit).
madmarck
11/26/07 10:32:46PM
Im pretty sure
Ken Shamrock was the first 'Superfight' champion and he had a belt for it. Thats sometimes referred to as the HW belt. He Beat Dan Severn for it then beat Kimo and Oleg in defeneses. He then lost to Severn.
Then Severn lost it in his first defense to Mark Coleman.
When Coleman won it it was renamed the Heavyweight Champion.
So you see he was the first HW champion.

So Techinally Shamrock and Severn held the belt but it just wasnt called the HW belt.
So Mark Coleman is the first Heavyweight Champion in the UFC becasue he was the first one to hold the HEAVYWEIGHT belt
The guys who won Tournaments- Couture, belfort ,kerr, gracie, etc. Werent given belts b/c winner of the Tournament was just declared the winner.
stickyhash421
11/27/07 10:55:42PM
bas rutten shouldve stayed in the UFC and fought fedor eventually.
madmarck
11/28/07 12:51:40AM

Posted by stickyhash421

bas rutten shouldve stayed in the UFC and fought fedor eventually.


Bas didnt leave the UFC....... he retired b/c his body was so f***ed from years of built up injuries
JimiMak
11/28/07 6:54:36PM

Posted by madmarck


Posted by stickyhash421

bas rutten shouldve stayed in the UFC and fought fedor eventually.


Bas didnt leave the UFC....... he retired b/c his body was so f***ed from years of built up injuries



I'll add two more pts to marck, 1 the amount of time between Rutten's retirement was nowhere close to when FE got to the big time 2 Fedor has still never fought in the UFC.
cowcatcher
11/28/07 7:14:37PM

Posted by stickyhash421

bas rutten shouldve stayed in the UFC and fought fedor eventually.



someone take this guys keyboard!
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