A look back at Fedor / CroCop

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Mayo
3/21/08 3:33:08PM
With all this talk of Fedor and Randy lately I decided to rewatch the Fedor/CroCop fight since I hadn't seen it in a long time.
I can't help but feel that CroCop should have won that fight. Even though Fedor was constantly pushing the pace, CroCop was making contact with most of the blows. CroCop was amazing on his back and I think he was winning on his back. I wonder how much it swayed the judges to keep seeing Fedor on top.
Anyway after watching it again I really think Randy could easily beat Fedor.
billycarnage
3/21/08 3:46:56PM
I don't know about that. I think CC game plan in that fight was all defense and counter. He looked amazing! It is one of my all time favorite fights but he lost because Fedor was the agressor. CC was in survival mode the whole fight he ran circles around the ring in attempt to avoid Fedor's punishment. That is why it went to decision. I think Randy would have a more offensive game plan which would open up opportunities for Fedor in the transition. Fedor can move! He rolls like a light weight and I think that quickness will put him on top. Fedor would win via GNP (T)KO.
CactusBob
3/21/08 4:00:48PM
I have to agree with Mr. Carnage, two different situations entirely. However, I've learned the hard way never to count Couture out.
ICSlegend
3/21/08 8:34:40PM
Fedor controlled the fight and won. But CC wrecked his face, inflincting more damage then anyone ever has, and almost decapitated him with the LHK, but almosts don't count. That being said, CC was never in any real danger, and took almost no damage in the guard, which is crazy considering how good Fedor's GnP is. People saying CC is one-dimensional are loonies. Fedor can TKO or sub almost anyone.

But I fail to see how even thinking CC won would make someone think Randy even stood a chance. CC is the deadlist HW on the feet and gave Fedor a lot to worry about. Randy's striking and power is average. The fight would be completely different with Fedor not having to worry about getting KOd. Not to mention CC landed some good hits in the first, softening Fedor up, something Randy probably couldn't do.

And why do people say Couture "always" finds a way to win and "never count him out". He's got plenty of losses, against the greatest HW in MMA history, I don't think he would even be able to last more then a round or two.
cmill21
3/21/08 9:19:00PM
I thought Fedor won convincingly. He basically had the fight wherever he wanted, Cro Cop coulden't get much off, he did rock him once or twice but he didn't win that fight.
Mayo
3/21/08 9:27:48PM
You make some good points ICSlegend but I don't know about when you say "Randy's striking and power is average." and "...CC landed some good hits in the first... something Randy probably couldn't do."
Afterall look at my animated avatar
But I think the good thing to come from seeing the Fedor CC fight is that if you're skilled enough like CC was you can definitely minimize the damage to yourself and take time to find your groove.
Anyway I think there's a good chance that Randy would be the person on top of Fedor and if necessary ground and pound his way to a judges decision.

Now to you cmill21 I say... even though Fedor had full control of the fight, CC was doing more damage. I don't know which is more important.
cmill21
3/21/08 9:55:33PM
Really? I think Fedor is a horrible style match up for Randy, while I think Cro Cop is a better one. Personally I don't think Randy could controll him, anywhere, I've seen Fedor do some crazy things standing, and I've heard Hoost say he would win in the K-1, we all know what he's done to olympic wrestlers and sambo experts. I think Randy's best chance is for this fight to happen in the UFC(even if he doesn't want it to), the elbows are IMHO the only way for Randy to win, he needs to cut him and Fedor cuts pretty easy. Randy matches up better against Cro Cop, if he could avoid standing he wins a UD. If Randy doesn't cut Fedor I think he gets TKO'd or subbed(I think it would look alot like Fedor v Coleman). As for more damage, I think your judging by Fedors face, because even in the stand up Fedor was getting the better of the exchanges, and he dominated the ground and the clinch. I really can't believe I said all that lol, see i'm not a total Cro Cop nuthugger . Seriously though Fedor is so good at everything, he's stood with the best, been on the ground with the best, been in the clinch with the best, he's done it all IMO. To me Fedor vs. Barney would tell me more about the best HW in the world then Randy vs Fedor, I don't think Randy's in the top 5 at HW(sorry), I think he's very good with the heart of a lion but to me beating big tim is a good win, however GG means absolutly nothing, I think his win over Cro Cop was not a fluke but I think it was a misrepresentation of his skills. He threw something that no one knew he had at a man who didn't really care. Werdum and Randy showed that he breaks really easily if you hit him. Sorry for the long winded post, and really I'm not saying anything bad about Randy I think pretty highly of him but I think he matches up terribly with Fedor since he would rather you take it to the ground, and he's so damn good off his back or if you aren't perfectly balanced when you try and take him down from the clinch he will reverse you and then your in tremendous trouble.
Mayo
3/21/08 10:41:46PM
You make some good points cmill... but let me say that whenever I watch any fight I usually have to watch it twice (once from each fighter's perspective) in order to absorb what really happened.... when you've got to some time to watch the Fedor CC fight again, try watching it entirely from CC's perspective.
cmill21
3/22/08 1:27:04AM

Posted by Mayo

You make some good points cmill... but let me say that whenever I watch any fight I usually have to watch it twice (once from each fighter's perspective) in order to absorb what really happened.... when you've got to some time to watch the Fedor CC fight again, try watching it entirely from CC's perspective.



I will. That was IMHO one of the best superfights in mma history, it happend at the perfect time and it will go down as one of the best fights ever. To bad more people didn't get a chance to see it live.
NatedawgThaM
3/22/08 1:47:14AM
When I watch this fight it proves to me Cro Cop would beat Randy and is a horrible match up for him. The best way to beat Randy is too circle and counter. You do that and you'll win. Why do you think Chuck beat him? Randy likes to cage LNP and throw short elbows. He likes to be the aggressor and fares well with other aggressive fighters which is why he beat GG, he beat Tim by perfect gameplan execution.

But if Cro Cop fought Randy like he did Fedor, he would KO Randy just like Chuck. Randy's striking is average and he wins by clinching against the cage. If you keep circling he wouldn't be able to clinch you especially in a cage since he can't corner you and the great thing about being a counterpuncher(Chuck/Cro Cop) is when your circling and he tries to get close that's when you nail him and that's how Chuck beat him, dropped him as he was coming in. Cro Cop would do the same.

Fedor is just as good as Randy with gameplanning so he probably is already aware of what I just told you. He's as quick as a lightweight and he hits hard as hell. He does not have great technique though, but Chuck does not either, he's all power, so Fedor would do what Chuck did but even better since he's quicker!

This fight is one of the best ever. Watching this fight just keeps proving to me Fedor is still the #1 HW, just needs to fight Barnett and soon or Cro Cop after he wins a few more. Watching this fight gives me hope Cro Cop will return to fighting like this(on the winning end) and will dominate the UFC when he comes back.

AMAZING FIGHT!!!
hippysmacker
3/22/08 3:19:46AM
In a ring I would agree with Cro-cop over Randy, but in a cage Cro-cop has shown his takedown defense isn't as good. With Randys cage generalship I would take Randy in a cage.
Mastodon2
3/22/08 1:12:21PM

Posted by Mayo

You make some good points ICSlegend but I don't know about when you say "Randy's striking and power is average." and "...CC landed some good hits in the first... something Randy probably couldn't do."
Afterall look at my animated avatar




I fail to see how Randy knocking down Tim has anything do with this. Furthermore, that shot was a huge haymaker, a full power punch and it still hit Tim. Tim is really slow and has poor reflexes, so its not that great an achievement to hit him. Fedor however managed to avoid the LHK, he has spent his whole career weaving out of the way of bombs. I doubt Randy could catch him with a big haymaker.
Shoppe
3/22/08 2:17:41PM
Don't forget about Fedors hand injury that took away his grip strength and prevented him from trying submissions
Aaronno9
3/22/08 2:30:22PM

Posted by hippysmacker

In a ring I would agree with Cro-cop over Randy, but in a cage Cro-cop has shown his takedown defense isn't as good. With Randys cage generalship I would take Randy in a cage.




ICSlegend
3/22/08 3:37:12PM
Well yeah, if you want to judge UFC CC, anyone besides Eddie Sanchez would beat him. Of course Randy would take down an unfocused CC at will and dominate, ring or cage. I think most of us are comparing each fighter at top form, in which CC hasn't show much at all in a cage and shouldn't be judged as such. The mere fact that GG caught his leg shows that CC didn't try that hard. And cheater Kongo didn't prove much either, other than he can't finish injured fighters (rib break and multiple illegal groin strikes).

tomp6581
4/11/08 9:54:50AM

Posted by Shoppe

Don't forget about Fedors hand injury that took away his grip strength and prevented him from trying submissions




Good point. He didn't punch with his right hand for most of the fight on the ground.
gsquat
4/11/08 11:58:23AM
Fedor definitely won that fight. He was his typical agressive self. You can't just judge by how their faces looked after the fight (Fedor always seems to get banged up). Randy would also lose to Fedor. There is just no area in which Randy is better. Though I would still like to see Randy vs CC. Once again, I think Randy would lose.
npayant
4/11/08 12:17:01PM

Posted by gsquat

Fedor definitely won that fight. He was his typical agressive self. You can't just judge by how their faces looked after the fight (Fedor always seems to get banged up). Randy would also lose to Fedor. There is just no area in which Randy is better. Though I would still like to see Randy vs CC. Once again, I think Randy would lose.



I think you're probably right about Randy getting beat by Fedor...

BUT Randy getting beat by CC... in the UFC (or an octagon/cage)... no way! Did you see CC's fights in the octagon?!?! Man, he looked horrible... He got beat by Kongo, and you think he'd beat Randy???...I guess I just don't see that happening... He looked like a completely different fighter than when he was in Pride...that could be for another reason that I won't get into at this point...my opinion.
ICSlegend
4/11/08 3:01:04PM

Posted by gsquat

You can't just judge by how their faces looked after the fight (Fedor always seems to get banged up).



Well, not solely, but damage inflicted in a fight is major scoring point. Once again, I don't see why people say "Fedor cuts easily", or why you said he "always seems ot get banged up"? Is every single fighter supposed to look unscratched after a fight? Fedor looks perfectly fine after most of his fights. CC gave Fedor the beatdown of a lifetime (in terms of damage). Give credit where it's due. But Fedor controlled the fight even more then CC damaged him, so it was a justified decision.
jocksmall
4/13/08 12:45:10PM
with randys inactivity and his age poeple can no longer say fedors inactivity will cause him to lose. we just dont really know how good randy will be at this point. the same case can be made for fedor but he is younger and bigger. i agree that there is a way for randy to win he is very good in the clinch and could win an ugly fight. i still believe fedor would win despite the poor showing by cc in the ufc.
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