Lightning Lee: Hero or Villain?

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POLL: Is Lee Murray a Hero or Villian?
Hero 28% (11)
Villian 44% (17)
A Bit of Both 28% (11)
MMA-San
6/29/09 6:32:42PM
"In the grand tradition of the great British thugs -- media-proclaimed “hard men” like Lenny McLean, Charlie Bronson and Mark Brandon Read -- Lee Murray is moving through the ranks like Parliament was waiting at the end. I have never heard of a man so driven to occupy a jail cell or a morgue with such urgency. (The closest American equivalent: probably Steve-O.)

If you’ve only come into mixed martial arts via the hyper and Xyience-plastered “Ultimate Fighter” era, you’ve likely never seen Murray fight. He had long, corded muscles, a severe expression and a militant attitude. He hit very, very hard and he shocked the hell out of virtually everyone when he went and submitted Jorge Rivera with a triangle choke in his first and only UFC appearance. All said, he fought about 10 times and won most of them. In what would become his career finale, he was smacked around by Anderson Silva. He took Silva the distance, though, and that didn’t happen again in 13 fights.

Fighting was Murray’s day job: He moonlighted as a hoodlum. (Or perhaps it was the other way around.)" ...Read More ...
MMA-San
6/29/09 6:37:55PM
Personally I consider Murrya a hero. Yes, he did things that were illegal, but he did nothing that I find morraly wrong. He did not hurt anybody, and I do not believe he had any intention of hurting anybody...not even if they had tried to stop him.

In my eyes, Murray took a risk that many of us wish we had enough balls to take and made off with 92 million in cash of insured bank money that was refunded to the institution. Lee Murray lived out one of my most primal and perhaps ashamed fantasy, and for that I have to look up to him.
mentalcase
6/29/09 7:23:57PM
Hero

agree with thread starter

as far as I'm concerned stealing money from a bank is not morally wrong at all, i consider it as "playing the game"

CwB
6/29/09 7:31:17PM
Hero for sure, nothing wrong with robbing a bank, unless someone gets hurt.


But whats up with the american comparison to stev-o
steve o is an idiot drug junkie
and
Murray was an athelete with a hard younger life
loller90278
6/29/09 7:35:22PM
didn't he kidnap 2 police officers?

he's a villain by societys standards, hero by mine
cmill21
6/29/09 7:36:27PM
Modern day robin hood.
TimW001
6/29/09 7:58:20PM
Lee Murray is somewhat MMA's version of Mike Tyson. Except Lee is alot better on the Mic. and I'm not ashamed to admit how cool he is.
Wolfenstein
6/29/09 8:39:21PM
Stealling is morally wrong...period. A hero? Is that really even a valid question? No doubt, robbing a bank is probably just about every guys fantasy--but I'm sure if one of the people who voted for "hero" had a mom in the bank at the time with a gun being brandished in her face, you would have a very different view.
bojangalz
6/29/09 9:09:52PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

Stealling is morally wrong...period. A hero? Is that really even a valid question? No doubt, robbing a bank is probably just about every guys fantasy--but I'm sure if one of the people who voted for "hero" had a mom in the bank at the time with a gun being brandished in her face, you would have a very different view.



If only I had spread more love.

I'd love to go on record about my thoughts from previous posters on this thread... But that would lead to a locked thread and stern words from the Mods.

Do I think the Lee Murry story will make a good movie? Yes.

Is he a hero? Hero of what exactly? The only person Lee Murry should be a hero to are $hitty criminals. How exacly is stealing money that isn't your not morally wrong?
mentalcase
6/29/09 9:16:10PM
Robbery
The manager of the depot, Colin Dixon, was abducted at about 18:30 on 21 February, apparently while driving his Nissan Almera to his home in Herne Bay. He was pulled over on the A249 just outside Stockbury, a village North East of Maidstone, by what he thought was an unmarked police vehicle due to the blue lights behind the front grill. A man approached him in high-visibility clothing and a police-style hat. The manager proceeded to get into the police impostor's car, thinking that he was a police officer, where he was then handcuffed by others in the vehicle. He was then driven west on the M20 motorway to the West Malling bypass where he was bound further, transferred into a white van and transported to a farm in Staplehurst, Kent.

As this was taking place, the manager's wife and eight-year-old son were being held hostage at their home in Herne Bay, after they answered the door to men dressed in police uniforms, who falsely informed them that the manager had been involved in a road traffic accident. They were then driven to the farm at which the manager was being held, where he was told at gunpoint that failure to cooperate could put him and his family in danger.

The depot manager, his wife and son were taken to the Securitas depot in Tonbridge at around 01:00, travelling in a plain white van, being held at gunpoint. At the depot, 14 members of staff were bound by robbers, armed with handguns and wearing balaclavas.

The robbery came to an end at approximately 02:45. The staff including Mr Dixon's wife and son were left locked in cash cages. However, Mr Dixon's son was small enough to be able to squeeze through the bars and free the others. It was still another half hour before staff members, who had been tied up, managed to raise the alarm[2]. Police officers arriving on the scene discovered staff, the manager and his family, bound but physically unharmed.

The notes will be difficult to trace and link to the robbery because they are used notes and not newly printed, unlike the notes stolen in the Belfast robbery of 2004.

The Bank of England, to which the money belonged, was reimbursed £25 million by Securitas the same day, and has assured the public that Securitas will make up any additional loss.

In July 2007, Securitas announced that it intended to exit the Cash Management market and withdraw from the joint venture with Barclays and HSBC.
bojangalz
6/29/09 10:02:42PM
Thank you mentalcase. Now can someone please explain to me what's heroic about this? How is kidnapping a wife and young child and holding them at gun point in front of their husband and father not immoral?!

You don't think he intended to harm anyone?! First, have you considered the perminant emotional harm that was caused to that family? Second...Does it matter if he intended to harm anyone? The answer is NO. The fact is, those workers and family all believed that they WOULD be harmed. The perceived threat of force is equally as severe as the use of force.

I'm am honestly troubled by the thought at anyone of sound mind would consider Murry heroic.
kaduey
6/30/09 12:05:04AM

Posted by bojangalz

Thank you mentalcase. Now can someone please explain to me what's heroic about this? How is kidnapping a wife and young child and holding them at gun point in front of their husband and father not immoral?!

You don't think he intended to harm anyone?! First, have you considered the perminant emotional harm that was caused to that family? Second...Does it matter if he intended to harm anyone? The answer is NO. The fact is, those workers and family all believed that they WOULD be harmed. The perceived threat of force is equally as severe as the use of force.

I'm am honestly troubled by the thought at anyone of sound mind would consider Murry heroic.



Mentalcase called him a hero.

He's not a hero or a villian. Murray is just a petty street kid from the streets who knew nothing better than to get rich by any means possible. That's the way of the streets.
EvenFlow
6/30/09 12:20:57AM
^ Exactly, Hero and Villian are both irrelevant, hes a guy who did what he wanted. Hes also going down in history as the mastermind of the biggest heist in the worlds history. Hate him or love him thats pretty impressive and its hard to get mad at the guy, he DID get caught and is going to serve time for what he did, or escape. What he did was very illegal but he didnt hurt anyone and this villian monkier is crap but the hero one is as well because you dont see him giving his money away like robbin hood, hes been in jail.
MMA-San
6/30/09 2:15:16AM
We watch movies about lighthearted bankrobbers all the time...Ocean's 11 anyone. We cheer them. There are many movies like this where the theives are percieved as hero's. Lee Murray's story is no different, and I believe that when his movie comes out he'll be shown in a heroic light (especially if he gets off free).

IN our society stealing money from big time industry is illegal...why...because it has to be otherwise everybody would do it. However, to many people, including the billions of people who watch these heroic theivery movies, it is not morally wrong.

To me, stealing from a mom and pops shop, or robbing somebodies house is very morally wrong. Bank robbery where nobody gets hurt to me equals and is also very, very

Say what you will, but your a hyprocrypt id you watch movies like Ocean Eleven and enjoy them.

IMHO I believe if given the oppertunity, as if they actually did get scotch free with the 90 million (in reality Murray is the only one to "get away" and he has 20mil) they would have given back to the community in a Robin Hood esque manner. I believe Murray would have helped the streets, he would have built a gym, and his filanthopy would have been disguised little by little as results of his MMA ventures.

Lee Murray is not a hero, he is a role model.
Near07
6/30/09 2:50:25AM
The banks rip us all off every day, we pay fees, taxes on our own money!!! We work our asses off until we are 65 and if some of us are lucky we will be wealthy...but the banks will always be filthy rich!!! They are 100% insured, so what Lee pulled off is a great achievement!! Who the hell wouldn't want to walk away with 90 plus million dollars!! I'm sure he has some money stashed away for when/if he gets out of jail!! I would do some time for 90 mill...I'm sure the people who were held at gun point were shaken up but i think they will be ok!! No one was hurt/Killed!!! Stick it to the man lol
MMA-San
6/30/09 4:13:15AM
lol, all Murray did was give the bank a bailout. By stealing the money, they were refunded no questions asked. In todays society, big business should be hiring Murray to "bail them out". He did the bank a favor
Wolfenstein
6/30/09 5:48:16AM

Posted by MMA-San


Say what you will, but your a hyprocrypt id you watch movies like Ocean Eleven and enjoy them.



Honestly, that just makes it sounds like you have difficulty seperating reality from entertainment. Me personally--what I watch for entertainment doesn't dictate my morals and ethics. Just because I like watching say--Natural Born Killers doesn't mean that I believe real life psychopaths are cool.
grappler0000
6/30/09 7:36:36AM

Posted by Wolfenstein


Posted by MMA-San


Say what you will, but your a hyprocrypt id you watch movies like Ocean Eleven and enjoy them.



Honestly, that just makes it sounds like you have difficulty seperating reality from entertainment. Me personally--what I watch for entertainment doesn't dictate my morals and ethics. Just because I like watching say--Natural Born Killers doesn't mean that I believe real life psychopaths are cool.



I completely agree. No offense MMA-San, but I found your whole post a bit troubling.
MMA-San
6/30/09 2:26:41PM
Hmm...yes, after that analogy, I guess that statement is a bit outlandish.
BabbyHughes
6/30/09 11:25:37PM
I have never been more incredulous with some of the sites members than I am after reading this thread. This anti-hero - thug life crap sickens me. People who want to be an outlaw are just lazy, or in desperate need of attention, or just want to be feared IMO. If you want to be feared its becuase you are afraid. Anyway, this kind of stuff is why I don't post. Too many peoples opinions here are so far away from mine that we have nothing to base a conversation on. I would like to thank all of you who support Murray , for reminding me why i don't even read most of the threads on any MMA board. Appreciated

p.s. Who do you think FEDERALLY insures a bank? Who funds the FEDERAL government? Oh yeah, the taxpayers. Which means every person who works for a living has to fit the bill for this criminal.It's a sad sad world.
hippysmacker
6/30/09 11:28:11PM

Posted by BabbyHughes

I have never been more incredulous with some of the sites members than I am after reading this thread. This anti-hero - thug life crap sickens me. People who want to be an outlaw are just lazy, or in desperate need of attention, or just want to be feared IMO. If you want to be feared its becuase you are afraid. Anyway, this kind of stuff is why I don't post. Too many peoples opinions here are so far away from mine that we have nothing to base a conversation on. I would like to thank all of you who support Murray for reminding me why i don't even read most of the threads on any MMA board. Appreciated

p.s. Who do you think FEDERALLY insures a bank? Who funds the FEDERAL government. Oh yeah, the taxpayers. Which means every person who works for a living has to fit the bill for this criminal.It's a sad sad world.



Ok, while I 100% completely agree with you bro. Threads locked. Enough said , on both sides.Time to cut this off before it gets out of hand.
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