LHW: No one deserves a title shot

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tomp6581
9/24/07 6:34:04AM

Posted by nubby

Hate to say it, but at the 205 weight class, no one currently deserves a title shot. So in order to find out who does deserve a title shot the following must happen:

Chuck Liddell - Chuc............




I agree with most of what you said.
In order to work out who will get the next shot, I think we need to think like business men. Excluding Liddell, Shogun and Henderson (Who all lost there last fight) What fight will make the most money?

Answer?
Rampage V Wandy 3 or Rampage V Ortiz

Rampage V Wandy. Even though Wandy has lost two fights in a row, he is recognised as the former pride champ who ko'd rampage twice. This will make the marketing of the fight easy.

Ortiz V Rampage. I think this would get more ppvs than any other fight because of their friendship, but I dont see Dana letting Tito have a shot unless he defeats Evans convincingly.

As Nubby said, there is no clear no1 contender....so instead, what will make the ufc the most $$$$$
Naturaldisaster
9/24/07 8:17:29AM
I agree that no one really deserves a shot right now. but since rampage is supposed to be takin like 6 months off then maybe by the time he comes back some will have actually proven themself.
AchillesHeel
9/24/07 10:48:07AM

Posted by nubby

Hate to say it, but at the 205 weight class, no one currently deserves a title shot. So in order to find out who does deserve a title shot the following must happen:

[...]


Good post, although I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. I think Forrest Griffin has earned a title shot, much like Gonzaga earned one by defeating Cro Cop. Possibly moreso, since Cro Cop wasn't the presumptive #1 Heavyweight at the time. If Gonzaga had KO'd Fedor, would you have said he hadn't earned a title shot? Griffin's win was that big, in my opinion. I'm still trying to figure out what I saw.

I agree with most everything else, though. If I were in charge, I'd give Griffin the next title shot and have Keith Jardine fight Wanderlei Silva, and Houston Alexander fight Lyoto Machida (Rashad Evans and Tito Ortiz are evidently already going to meet each other again, so their next fights are booked).

Liddell might retire, Hendo might go after the Middleweight belt, and Shogun will evidently need some time to reconfigure his training regime.
Hurricane_Brad
9/24/07 11:46:27AM
Forrest's win was definitely huge, but lets not forget that Jardine's win was also huge. The Dean of Mean also has a recent TKO victory over Griffin, which is further complicated by Jardine's KO loss to Alexander. The easiest solution that comes to mind is have Forrest vs Jardine 2 for the number 1 contender spot. Wandy still needs to win a fight (maybe against the winner of Evans - Ortiz 2?) before he fights for the title, IMO. Alexander should fight Machida, and Shogun should fight Hendo to determine who will challenge for the title after the winner of Jardine - Griffin 2.
keith-hackney1
9/24/07 12:04:15PM
jardine, griffin, ortiz, alexander, evans and machida need to fight it out for a 2nd and 3rd rank title shot.
TNunley
9/24/07 1:06:26PM

Posted by Hurricane_Brad

Forrest's win was definitely huge, but lets not forget that Jardine's win was also huge. The Dean of Mean also has a recent TKO victory over Griffin, which is further complicated by Jardine's KO loss to Alexander. The easiest solution that comes to mind is have Forrest vs Jardine 2 for the number 1 contender spot. Wandy still needs to win a fight (maybe against the winner of Evans - Ortiz 2?) before he fights for the title, IMO. Alexander should fight Machida, and Shogun should fight Hendo to determine who will challenge for the title after the winner of Jardine - Griffin 2.



Good post, but I disagree with a few points you made. I think Forrest sent out a big message, and placed himself in title contention with the win over Rua. I think you're absolutely right with the fact that Jardine has KO'd Griffin, and there should be a rematch. Although Griffin's win was huge, Jardine's was equally huge (possibly bigger). Everyone has been ragging on Liddell lately since he lost to Jackson, but the guy is still a future UFC hall of famer, and up until recently seemed unstoppable in the UFC (after all that's the organization we're talking about). So I feel Jardine's win puts him higher in the ranking than Griffin. That being said, I don't think either of them deserve a shot at the title until that rematch takes place, but definitely don't think anyone should get it before one of these two do.

As for Wandy, I think the best thing for him (and to hype the fight) is to give him at least 2 fights before a title shot. Sure he has fought in the UFC before, but that's been quite a while back. Irregardless of how good he is, it would be smarter for him to have a couple fights to get the feel of the Octagon again. Not to mention since the Pride fighters haven't done so well in the transition... with a couple of wins (instead of losses) in the UFC that shakes any theory that Wandy will fall to the recent "Pride effect". I don't think anyone should get an immediate title shot (again) no matter how great they were in another organization. That could really hurt someone's career. Irregardless of what the die hard MMA fan may think, the mass audience doesn't know everyone's backstory and could care less about a guy who loses a couple of times. In either case, if you put Wandy against Tito, then you have a marketable fight because Tito has beaten him before (probably can't again though). But if Evans wins, I don't think he's necessarily earned a fight with Wandy though (but it would be a good fight to throw Wandy).

I feel the same about Alexander fighting Machida. Machida isn't very well known (Alexander only is because of Jardine), but Alexander's win over Jardine put him closer to the spotlight. I know being known has little effect on your ability, but it affects your marketability. Zuffa might not believe they could sell too many Jackson vs Machida (or Alexander) tickets. Not that I think either of them deserve a title shot at the moment anyway.

Hendo vs Shogun might not be the best matchup for either of their careers. They are both coming off losses, and to pair them up means one will lose again (unless there is a draw). Inevitably the name of the game is selling tickets and ppv's, and it would be harder to sell tickets or ppv's to a guy coming off 2 losses. And with Hendo and Shogun you still have a great deal of marketability. I don't think either of the two deserve a title shot just yet even if they win their next fight. I say they both need at least 2 wins.

So I think throw Shogun and Bisping together, ultimately putting Shogun right back in the spotlight. They could end up playing it off that the UFC transition got the best of him, and you've got another highly marketable fight (as long as he didn't lose to Bisping) to follow.

With Hendo, I think you could put him against the loser of the Griffin/Jardine rematch. Then if he wins, put him against whoever loses the title fight between Jackson and the the winner of the Griffin/Jardine fight. Then another title shot for Hendo if he wins both.

IMO anyway.
Sam_Rothstein
9/25/07 1:11:59AM
forrest needs to fight for the title

i don't see one reason he should have to fight another fight after submitting shogun (who just about every top 10 LHW list in the world had him at either #1, #2, #3)


nubby
9/25/07 1:36:18AM

Posted by Sam_Rothstein

forrest needs to fight for the title

i don't see one reason he should have to fight another fight after submitting shogun (who just about every top 10 LHW list in the world had him at either #1, #2, #3)





Because a win over one top level fighter doesn't make you a number one contender especially when you've lost two of your past 4 fights. Shogun looked liked shit I think everyone can agree, forrest was not fighting the number 1 LHW in that cage.
Sam_Rothstein
9/25/07 2:27:07AM

Posted by nubby


Posted by Sam_Rothstein

forrest needs to fight for the title

i don't see one reason he should have to fight another fight after submitting shogun (who just about every top 10 LHW list in the world had him at either #1, #2, #3)





Because a win over one top level fighter doesn't make you a number one contender especially when you've lost two of your past 4 fights. Shogun looked liked shit I think everyone can agree, forrest was not fighting the number 1 LHW in that cage.




i would say winning 3 out of your last 4 fights in the ufc including submitting #1 LHW in the world would definately launch him to a title shot.

you can say that shogun didnt look like the normal shogun, but the fact is he was considered the best LHW in the world, and forrest griffin came into the fight and tore him apart on the stand up and made him tap out on the ground


hermes franca lost two fights in a row in the ufc, went down to wec and came back to the ufc won 3 fights against 2 subpar opponents and spencer fisher and bam hes fighting sean sherk for the lw belt

andrei arlovksi got knocked out by ricco rodriguez and pedro rizzo two fights in a row, he came back and beat ian freeman vladimir matyushenko and cabbage and got to fight tim sylvia for the heavyweight belt

anderson silva lost two straight fights in pride came over and beat chris leban, who is nowhere near shoguns hype and got to fight rich franklin for the middleweight belt

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