LHW: No one deserves a title shot

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nubby
9/23/07 1:07:02PM
Hate to say it, but at the 205 weight class, no one currently deserves a title shot. So in order to find out who does deserve a title shot the following must happen:

Chuck Liddell - Chuck is in a bad place right now. He was knocked out for the second time by Quinton Jackson to come back and lose a decision to Keith Jardine. He is out of the title picture for at least 3 fights IMO.

Mauricio Rua - Shogun looked like he got hit by a truck in his UFC debut. He was tired at the middle point of round 2 and his normal agressive ways were no where to be seen. Many point to his UFC jitters as a root cause but I don't know if I agree. He will need at least 2 strong wins to even be considered for the title shot.

Wanderlei Silva - Coming off two devestating losses to Dan Henderson and Mirko Filipovic, Wanderlei is definitely not in the title picture for at least two solid victories. Defeating Tito Ortiz in a rematch and Chuck Liddell in a dream fight might put him there but he needs to hurry before stock in both of those fighters is completely diminished.

Forrest Griffin - Probably the fighter closest to the title fight picture... Forrest has string together two awesome victories after a devestating loss to Keith Jardine. If Forrest can get one more impressive win he should get a shot at the Title.

Tito Ortiz - Currently scheduled for a rematch with Rashad Evans, Tito has been losing his luster with a second devestating loss to Chuck Liddell. Tito will need at least 2 with a win against Rashad or 3 impressive wins with a loss to Rashad.

Dan Henderson - Henderson looked great against Quinton Jackson however, having been the most recent challenger to the title he will need at least 3 good victories before he gets another shot.

Keith Jardine - Jardines recent victory to Chuck Liddell has garnered him some strong support for the title run but his recent speed bump loss to Houston Alexander has derailed his shot at the title for at least another single impressive win.

Rashad Evans - Rashad's lackluster performance has left fans wondering if he trully is at the top of the LHW food chain. He will need to fight more top level competition and find at least two consecutive wins after a win against Tito in order to progress to title shot.

Lyoto Machida - Lyoto had a very impressive victory over Nakamura but many feel that Machida needs to prove himself against more top level competition before he can be considered for the title. He will need at least two solid victories over top opponents before he should receive a title shot.

Houston Alexander - He has shown tremendous striking power but has yet to really face enough talent in the UFC to garner a title shot. Alexander should fight at least one more top leve opponent to receive a title shot.

All in all the LHW division is a complete mess and no one clearly deserves a title shot at the moment.
CCPRIDE99
9/23/07 1:14:14PM
machida has fought some awesome competition so idk how you are saying he hasnt.
he tkod stephan bonnar in a fight he was dominating, he destroyed rich franklin and kod him with a brutal knee, he beat the hell out of sam hoger and david heath, and nakamura beat randleman so a win over him impresses me.
i dont think he would beat jackson but hes definitely in line for the title
DJDark41
9/23/07 1:14:47PM
I never really thought about it, but now that you broke it down the LHW division doesn't have a real #1 contender anymore...
NatedawgThaM
9/23/07 1:16:16PM

Posted by nubby

Hate to say it, but at the 205 weight class, no one currently deserves a title shot. So in order to find out who does deserve a title shot the following must happen:

Chuck Liddell - Chuck is in a bad place right now. He was knocked out for the second time by Quinton Jackson to come back and lose a decision to Keith Jardine. He is out of the title picture for at least 3 fights IMO.

Mauricio Rua - Shogun looked like he got hit by a truck in his UFC debut. He was tired at the middle point of round 2 and his normal agressive ways were no where to be seen. Many point to his UFC jitters as a root cause but I don't know if I agree. He will need at least 2 strong wins to even be considered for the title shot.

Wanderlei Silva - Coming off two devestating losses to Dan Henderson and Mirko Filipovic, Wanderlei is definitely not in the title picture for at least two solid victories. Defeating Tito Ortiz in a rematch and Chuck Liddell in a dream fight might put him there but he needs to hurry before stock in both of those fighters is completely diminished.

Forrest Griffin - Probably the fighter closest to the title fight picture... Forrest has string together two awesome victories after a devestating loss to Keith Jardine. If Forrest can get one more impressive win he should get a shot at the Title.

Tito Ortiz - Currently scheduled for a rematch with Rashad Evans, Tito has been losing his luster with a second devestating loss to Chuck Liddell. Tito will need at least 2 with a win against Rashad or 3 impressive wins with a loss to Rashad.

Dan Henderson - Henderson looked great against Quinton Jackson however, having been the most recent challenger to the title he will need at least 3 good victories before he gets another shot.

Keith Jardine - Jardines recent victory to Chuck Liddell has garnered him some strong support for the title run but his recent speed bump loss to Houston Alexander has derailed his shot at the title for at least another single impressive win.

Rashad Evans - Rashad's lackluster performance has left fans wondering if he trully is at the top of the LHW food chain. He will need to fight more top level competition and find at least two consecutive wins after a win against Tito in order to progress to title shot.

Lyoto Machida - Lyoto had a very impressive victory over Nakamura but many feel that Machida needs to prove himself against more top level competition before he can be considered for the title. He will need at least two solid victories over top opponents before he should receive a title shot.

Houston Alexander - He has shown tremendous striking power but has yet to really face enough talent in the UFC to garner a title shot. Alexander should fight at least one more top leve opponent to receive a title shot.

All in all the LHW division is a complete mess and no one clearly deserves a title shot at the moment.



Dude, that's exactly what I was thinking...PROPS!!!
StorminYourman
9/23/07 1:23:04PM
Have 2 fights with any combination of Lambert,Wandi, Machida,and Alexander and the most impressive win gets a shot.
DrumzCT
9/23/07 1:25:18PM
I totally agree with everything you said except for Machida. I think his win over Nakamura was very impressive. Machida is still undefeated so you can't really give him someone coming off a loss. Also Forrest was originally slated to fight him last night and beating Shogun then giving him Machida would seem like a step back.

They're gonna give someone a title shot because they're not gonna let the champ stagnate. I can see either Forrest vs Jackson for the title and then Machida vs Wanderlei for #1 contender. I could also see them going Machida vs Jackson for the title and Forrest vs Wanderlei for #1 contender.

Can't wait to see what happens.
Copenhagen
9/23/07 1:58:10PM
The only one I see currently deserving of a title shot from that list is Forrest. Yet he has an unrevenged loss against Jardine.

It will be intresting how to see what J. Silva will do with this division.
babytater03
9/23/07 2:02:11PM
IMO it may be conceivable to have Jardine v. Griffin 2 to determine who takes on Jackson. Both had huge wins last night and after reading OP they sound like the best candidates. Maybe Machida v. Alexander for a #1 contender after that?

Opinions on that?
loller90278
9/23/07 2:13:13PM
it should be wandi vs rampage nexxt
Linye
9/23/07 2:18:51PM
I think that Griffin and Machida are the ones closer to the title shot.

Silva too because he have two wins over Jackson.
MALICE
9/23/07 2:37:00PM
I think Wanderlei should fight somenone like Bonnar or Alexander. Then, it looks like both Jardine and Griffin have matured. So they should fight again. For #1 Contender.

Griffin vs Jardine W = Title shot

Wanderlei vs Bonnar
Rua vs Chuck
Alexander vs Machida

nubby
9/23/07 2:37:18PM

Posted by Linye

I think that Griffin and Machida are the ones closer to the title shot.

Silva too because he have two wins over Jackson.


Yeah but my point is that Wanderlei has two recent losses, even though he has wins over Page, he still needs to prove hes worthy of a shot at the title, not just a fight against Jackson. I see those as two different requirements.
sakusback3
9/23/07 2:42:04PM
Shogun has a case for a shot just by the fact that he has already dismantled the champion.

Did Randy deserve a shot? No, but the argument that he won is always brought up.

Wandy deserves a shot as well, he annihilated the champion TWICE.

And Machida has fought good comp, and always won. He probably deserves it the most from that standpoint. Everyone else in the title picture has a loss or more holding them back.
BerndRealBad
9/23/07 2:49:47PM
Yes Wandy did lose twice, but look who it was he lost to. I don't really count his loss to Cro Cop having any effect on a light heavyweight shot, since he was fighting a heavier opponent. So take that away and he lost to Dan Henderson...an upset yes, but a huge upset? Not even close to the people that Shogun and Chuck just lost to. I think all he would need is one fight before getting a title shot. And I am a huge fan of seeing Machida get a title shot. He's just a different kind of fighter and I'm interested to see how someone like Rampage would handle him (or try to).
MMA
9/23/07 2:50:24PM
Why do you think Houston only needs one more fight for a title shot? Prior to last nights event, Jardine was not even top 10 and Sakara is a bad fighter. Yes, I admit he beat them both via devastating fashion but let's see him fight against solid competition before he is given a title shot.

I think Ortiz would just TD Houston and brutally gnp him out (and I hate Tito Ortiz). Lol.
hathcock32
9/23/07 3:03:13PM
Forrest beat the number 1 guy in the world to say he doesen't deserve a title shot is absurd.
Scott_Revels
9/23/07 3:13:13PM
I think it's at a point where your going to have to sacrifice, and just go with two guys who might not be ready, but because their fight is coming up, they might be the only guys who can be proclaimed #1 contender.

Those two guys are: Tito Ortiz and Rashad Evans.

I know you said they aren't ready, but think about this.

90% of your LHWs have fought in the past month. They don't have any fights scheduled to come up before Ortiz/Evans 2. Also, you have to think about the fact that neither Ortiz or Evans have had a lost this year, which means they are ahead of guys like Shogun, and Liddell. What you could say is, "These two have had a bitter rivalry and this fight will propel a guy to the Title Shot." If Ortiz wins, then that means he gave a 10-0-1 guy his first lost. If Rashad wins, he's defeated a former champion and #1 contender. This could help give Rampage another title fight, to not make him rusty. Also, it would give the UFC time to make matches like Liddell/Wanderlei, and give us new match ups between the likes of Henderson, Shogun, Griffin, Jardine, Alexander, and Machida. Plus add in a guy like Ricardo Arona who could get placed in a fight with any of these guys, and you'll soon have a more defined LHW division.
juanez13
9/23/07 4:15:53PM
there isnt really a clear cut contender, but rampage just fought, so it gives some time to clear things up, my say i think will be wandy, just because he beat rampage 2wice, but who knows
cmill21
9/23/07 4:37:51PM
I could see Rampage and wand. Best fight right now.
nubby
9/23/07 5:01:37PM
If Rampage wasn't champion I would agree but I don't feel that Wanderlei has earned a title shot considering has just lost twice, it would like Liddell getting a title shot now. And yes the comparison is similar as CC is obviously not the top fighter he once was and Henderson is ovbiously not better than Jackson at least not according to their most recent fight. There has to be justification more than because Silva beat him twice before. And I understand the argument that Couture didn't deserve a shot in heavyweight but that division was in need of competition desparately.
yerbluesjohn
9/23/07 9:13:22PM

Posted by hathcock32

Forrest beat the number 1 guy in the world to say he doesen't deserve a title shot is absurd.



That's exactly how I feel about it. How doesn't he deserve the shot? Yes, he lost to Jardine and didn't look great against Ramirez afterwards, but to demoralize Shogun the way he did and not get the title shot is insane. He's the only one in the division who deserves it.

And since Rampage just fought a few weeks ago, both Forrest and Rampage should be ready to go around the same time, so why would it make sense for Griffin to have another fight before 'Page?
jgtribbett
9/23/07 9:38:55PM

Posted by DJDark41

I never really thought about it, but now that you broke it down the LHW division doesn't have a real #1 contender anymore...



and they diont have a real number one champ either

jackson has been beat by silva and shogun. shogun go tbeat by forrest

forrst got beat by jardine,

jardine got beat by houston,

houston hasnt got any really big wins yet

hendo beat silva, b ut lost to jackson

i say the whole division is a round robin.. i like it..

we could have continuouse title changes for a long time

i say send forrset up to jhackson

he looked nervous when he saw shogun get beat by forrest cause shogun mauled him
nubby
9/23/07 9:55:05PM

Posted by yerbluesjohn


Posted by hathcock32

Forrest beat the number 1 guy in the world to say he doesen't deserve a title shot is absurd.



That's exactly how I feel about it. How doesn't he deserve the shot? Yes, he lost to Jardine and didn't look great against Ramirez afterwards, but to demoralize Shogun the way he did and not get the title shot is insane. He's the only one in the division who deserves it.

And since Rampage just fought a few weeks ago, both Forrest and Rampage should be ready to go around the same time, so why would it make sense for Griffin to have another fight before 'Page?



If you're asking why I think that he doesn't deserve a shot then let me elaborate. First of all he was demoralized by Jardine, previous to Jardine he lost to Tito Ortiz. IMO he looked great against Ramirez and that fight actually led to my decision to pick Forrest over Rua. But after watching Rua in the cage, his place among the elite in the UFC is not secure and quite honestly I don't see Rua beating a lot of the UFC talent if that is a preview of his fights to come. That being said, someone who loses twice then wins twice, regardless of who he wins against does not deserve a title shot in the 205 division. If Tito were to win against Houston Alexander and Wanderlei Silva after losing to Rashad Evans, would you make the same argument that he was deserving of a title shot? When did you guys start lowering your standards?

Like all you guys I don't want to see Jackson sitting on the title without defending it but cmon, can we at least get some concensus that the division needs a more clear cut number one contender?
yerbluesjohn
9/23/07 10:24:44PM

Posted by nubby

Like all you guys I don't want to see Jackson sitting on the title without defending it but cmon, can we at least get some concensus that the division needs a more clear cut number one contender?



The only problem I have with waiting it out, is then when Jackson does finally get to defend his title again, we will have to deal with the question of whether his layoff was too long. And from the UFC's perspective, Forrest just had a "career defining" win, why not give him the chance for another? If he gets destroyed by Rampage, then we are back to square one and would by then have a clearer picture of the lhw division.

What about the flip side of things, if Shogun and Chuck had both won the fights? Where would we be sitting then? I can't see Chuck getting a title shot out of it, but if Shogun had won, he probably would have been getting the shot, so why doesn't Forrest deserve the same?
gspgnp
9/23/07 10:39:21PM

Posted by yerbluesjohn


Posted by nubby

Like all you guys I don't want to see Jackson sitting on the title without defending it but cmon, can we at least get some concensus that the division needs a more clear cut number one contender?



The only problem I have with waiting it out, is then when Jackson does finally get to defend his title again, we will have to deal with the question of whether his layoff was too long. And from the UFC's perspective, Forrest just had a "career defining" win, why not give him the chance for another? If he gets destroyed by Rampage, then we are back to square one and would by then have a clearer picture of the lhw division.

What about the flip side of things, if Shogun and Chuck had both won the fights? Where would we be sitting then? I can't see Chuck getting a title shot out of it, but if Shogun had won, he probably would have been getting the shot, so why doesn't Forrest deserve the same?

MaxUFC
9/23/07 10:40:01PM
We will be know who is true LWH champion at end of the eyar - 2008.

Should we glad about mess division? Yeah! Because we will see alot good LHW fights coming in 2008.
nubby
9/23/07 10:58:01PM

Posted by yerbluesjohn


Posted by nubby

Like all you guys I don't want to see Jackson sitting on the title without defending it but cmon, can we at least get some concensus that the division needs a more clear cut number one contender?



The only problem I have with waiting it out, is then when Jackson does finally get to defend his title again, we will have to deal with the question of whether his layoff was too long. And from the UFC's perspective, Forrest just had a "career defining" win, why not give him the chance for another? If he gets destroyed by Rampage, then we are back to square one and would by then have a clearer picture of the lhw division.

What about the flip side of things, if Shogun and Chuck had both won the fights? Where would we be sitting then? I can't see Chuck getting a title shot out of it, but if Shogun had won, he probably would have been getting the shot, so why doesn't Forrest deserve the same?



The justification is that Shogun had been tearing everyone a new asshole in pride. Forrest was clearly not running the 205 division. It's quite a major difference. Hell, the simple fact that Forrest was even given a fight against shogun was a gift.

If Shogun and Chuck both won, Shogun would have gone up against Jackson and Chuck would have gone up against Wanderlei. I'm absolutely sure that wanderlei would have come into that cage after Chuck's victory and the hype machine would have been going full force. So it's not like there would have been some kind of problem figuring out who was up next for the title.

Now that I think of it, the number one contender should be the winner of Forrest and Wanderlei. Unfortunately, Wanderlei still needs to fight someone before he fights Forrest. Maybe the best answer is to have Couture drop down and fight Jackson for the title?
yerbluesjohn
9/24/07 1:18:58AM

Posted by nubby
Maybe the best answer is to have Couture drop down and fight Jackson for the title?



Now that would be amazing.

Forrest v Wanderlei would be a damn good fight, too.
ncordless
9/24/07 1:40:03AM

Posted by loller90278

it should be wandi vs rampage nexxt




I agree, Rampage needs to avenge his two losses to Wandy. That is the most compelling title fight out there right now.

I know everyone wants to see Chuck vs. Wandy... but why make them fight at the low point in both their careers? They are going to be around for a few more fights. Let it build up if it can, and if it doesn't, the timing can't get any worse than right now.

As far as Wandy getting a shot after two consecutive losses... remember a couple of things.
1. His last loss was in the Heavyweight Division and really shouldn't count against his standing in the Light Heavys.
2. His other loss was to Dan Henderson, who just lost to the champ in a close fight. A loss to Hendo and two wins over Rampage are enough to qualify for a title shot IMO.

All the other potential candidates for the next shot either haven't fought enough quality opposition or have losses to fighters ranked lower than Hendo. None of the other candidates have wins over Rampage, except Shogun. Shogun's loss to Griffin, and his lack of quality opposition since the '05 GP dont make him a real good candidate right now.

Wandy v. Rampage 3
The next logical step
Buddharox
9/24/07 4:38:11AM
Wandy after 1 UFC win should earn him a title shot. He might have lost his two last fights, but look at who they were against. CC was absolutely on fire that night, and would have beat anyone but Fedor, and Dan Henderson is definitely no chump.

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