Let's beat a dead horse some. About the topic of stoppages.

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » Let's beat a dead horse some. About the topic of stoppages.
POLL: Too early on the stoppages in the UFC?
Yes, way early 4% (1)
Yes, give the guy a chance to recover 17% (4)
no opinion 4% (1)
no, majority are justified 58% (14)
no, almost all are justified 13% (3)
Exactly what the hell was up with the Kimbo Thompson fight? 4% (1)
seanfu
2/25/09 8:42:10PM
I'm legitamately curious to know why some of you religiously support UFC stoppages. I have probably already heard most of the arguement, but if there's something I'm missing like a statistic or something I would like you to post it.

I'm not trying to start some ****. I believe MANY of the UFC's stoppages are justified, but does that make them right? Justification of a stoppage is when a guy A- get's knocked goofy (goes out for a second), or B- is tagged and has almost no chance of pulling out a reversal of fortunes.

I completely agree with these for justification, but I don't agree with them being accepted commonly. I'm in no way a Kos Nutthugger and am not going to include that fight.

But you have a fighter, a warrior, who has free will. This guy wants to fight. If you're a fighter and you say "referree, i want you to not stop the fight until I'm knocked OUT or getting badlly hurt" then why would you say no?

I have a theory- political pressure. But I won't go into it.

I've seen some terribly slow stoppages in Japan that are horrible to watch. But never, in any organization, has a fighter complained of a late stoppage. I've never heard a fighters corner complain either.

My arguement is that because a guy falls awkwardly he must be stopped? If he's gonna bitch then let the oponent actually finish the fight or take away the doubtors. How many times have we seen a supreme athlete drop and instantly recover? They let Noguiera get basically knocked out in the Herring and Sylvia fights and come back to win, but Chuck drops Randleman or some poor bastard cant advance position and gets lovetapped really fast from a crucifix and fights over? If they're gonna stop a fight because a guy goes out for a split second on a knockdown then they might as well institute a knockdown rule to make it fair, because honestly there wouldn't be much of a difference in the flow of the fight since you can't pounce after a knockdown.

I know I'm not of the popular opinion, but please at least think about this. It's a bit of a rant but I'm confused why so many educated MMA guys would agree with these stoppages.

cmill21
2/25/09 9:20:17PM
I've said it before, as soon as guys started bitching they were being left to long, so guys are starting to jump the gun a bit again, now they'll stop and we'll end up with more Jardine's.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
2/25/09 9:25:40PM
so i read what you said twice , this is all i could get out of it ........

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postman
2/25/09 9:53:10PM
Yeah all I got is
Ordep
2/25/09 9:54:30PM
the ref' is the one who is suppose to take care of the fighters.....

Fighters make a lot of $$$ (at least some/most)

Referees, not that much.

From the refs' POV
An "early" stoppage couldn't hut your job, but a late one could have serious consequences. It is not an easy job being in charge of the health of two persons while they're trying to hurt each other. If fighters don't want "early" stoppages, well then they should avoid being knocked out. If a guy falls awkwardly as you say it is not because he slipped. Sometimes they recover, sometimes they don't. What will happen the day that someone doesn't recover at all? (I hope never happens). Sometimes referees point deductions, and position changes are not right and that could be discussed, but stoppages...... hmm that's a different story.
I think the only really "bad-stoppage" that I've seen recently was the Johnson-Burns 1, which Mazz' clearly recognized and apologized from.
Tein_Lung
2/26/09 10:19:08AM
if you totally drop and bounce like a dead fish then the fight needs to stop... if you fall back and catch yourself then it needs to go on IMO...



I know its gone over and over but Kos droped like a dead fish his head bounced like a melon off the mat before he moved on his own...


JimiMak
2/26/09 5:17:46PM

Posted by Tein_Lung

I know its gone over and over but Kos droped like a dead fish his head bounced like a melon off the mat before he moved on his own...





You should watch the match before you comment on it, that's not even close to what happened.
haggiswashere
2/26/09 5:42:01PM

Posted by JimiMak


Posted by Tein_Lung

I know its gone over and over but Kos droped like a dead fish his head bounced like a melon off the mat before he moved on his own...





You should watch the match before you comment on it, that's not even close to what happened.



Looked like it to me....Link He clearly goes limp and his head bounces off the mat. Just like he said.
Tein_Lung
2/26/09 6:19:05PM

Posted by JimiMak


Posted by Tein_Lung

I know its gone over and over but Kos droped like a dead fish his head bounced like a melon off the mat before he moved on his own...





You should watch the match before you comment on it, that's not even close to what happened.

please tell me what did happen then... cause i watched it and he was totally limp till his head bounced off the mat...
nickcuc547
2/26/09 6:27:37PM
the majority are justified, but yes there are a few bad ones, vera vs. werdum and kimbo vs. thompson are the first two that come to mind because those two weren't even close. others like tito vs. shamrock 2, karo vs. alves and kos vs. thiago may have been early but I don't think any would have made a difference in the outcome as they were all seconds away from being finished.
JimiMak
2/26/09 8:45:07PM
He landed flat on his back his head certainly doesn't bounce and that video shows it. Unconscious men don't defend.
Tein_Lung
2/26/09 10:13:40PM

Posted by JimiMak

He landed flat on his back his head certainly doesn't bounce and that video shows it. Unconscious men don't defend.

his head totaly hits teh ground and it bounces back up and he holds it there when eh tenses his arms... please tell us what your looking at cause his head hits teh mat and comes back up thus making a "bounce"
Boo_Radley21
2/26/09 11:05:03PM
Sure once in a while there is a stoppage that is questionable because it is either too early or too late, but for the most part the refs in the UFC do a good job of stopping the fight right when it needs to be stopped. Big John was the best, and I wish he was still doing it for the UFC.
JimiMak
2/26/09 11:24:10PM

Posted by Tein_Lung


Posted by JimiMak

He landed flat on his back his head certainly doesn't bounce and that video shows it. Unconscious men don't defend.

his head totaly hits teh ground and it bounces back up and he holds it there when eh tenses his arms... please tell us what your looking at cause his head hits teh mat and comes back up thus making a "bounce"



You're trying to derail this thread. The video is clear as day and what you describe is simply not true. Anyone w/ two eyes can see that.

BACK ON SUBJECT: I think most of the calls are at least justified if not right. I think every fan of every sport complains about reffing, cameras see a lot more (esp w/ slo mo etc) than the naked eye. They hire the best guys they have. The refs get far too much flak.

That one named fight above is the worst call I've ever seen. It was called a tko when the guy got a knock down, that's prob'ly the only fight y'all have ever seen me so vehemently disagree about. Bad call. Simple as that. But bad calls happen, it is still ref'd by humans.
seanfu
2/26/09 11:30:39PM
I just mean how no one's allowed to be knocked out on the ground anymore. Screw the Kos fight, I disagreed but I figure had I mentioned it this is what would happen to the thread.
telnights
2/27/09 6:08:40AM
Well I want to say something on this. The problem isn't the UFC it is Refs. The UFC has no say on who and who doesn't Ref the events. That is totally up to the commissions. We just see it more in the UFC because of the amount of shows they put on.

Now I will say in the past year or so I have seen what can only be called favoritism and huge inconsistency with the Refs. I could draw a list of fights but I think most people here know most of them that have been the problem. Its like rules will change not only from one ref to another but also the same Ref changing the way he does things from fight to fight or even in the same fight.

Do I think there has been some early stoppages as of late...YES. For the most part they are fine but there has been a lot of fights stopped as of late that could have gone on. The thing people are not seeing here is the fact that as long as a fighter is making an effort to intelligently defend himself then the fight should go on. But I want to add that there has been cases where guys haven't been intelligently defending and the fight went on. What I want to see is some consistency in the Refs. I don't care if they stop them early or late in peoples eyes I just want them to be on the same page. I have said this many times but the Ref's should never have a affect on the outcome of the fight. But sadly that hasn't been the case and a lot of fans and fighters have been robbed of some great fights because of this.
Tein_Lung
2/27/09 9:34:10AM
i think they need to get a smaller group of older refs... like Herb Dean we don't seem to see him much anymore and hes got the most experiance now that Big John doesn't do UFC events anymore... and i don't recall too many bad calls that herb has done same with Mario.....