Kyle maynard to climb Mount Killamanjaro!

You guys remember Maynard?
He was a former wrestler who had one MMA fight.
And he has no arms nor legs. Now he plans on toppling Mount Killamanjaro. You really gotta hand it to this guy for continuing to challenge himself. Hope he's safe.

Maynard

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

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I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

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I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

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How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

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I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

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How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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I wanna be carried up mount killamanjaro too.

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

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I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

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How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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Unless someone dies from having to assist Maynard... all day.... every day... every hour... every minute. No one in the world is a veteran expedition leader climbing Mount Killamanjaro when working with a quadriplegic (EDIT: Not quadriplegic, but limbless). If all goes well, let's make a movie about it, but there's gonna be vicious hailstorm from the media if something bad happens.

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Posted by Kpro

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

---

I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

---

How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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Unless someone dies from having to assist Maynard... all day.... every day... every hour... every minute. No one in the world is a veteran expedition leader climbing Mount Killamanjaro when working with a quadriplegic. If all goes well, let's make a movie about it, but there's gonna be vicious hailstorm from the media if something bad happens.

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It would be selfish if his mom went up with him because she didn't want anything to happen to her son or someone that really didn't want to do it, but wanted to make sure he was OK so they went up anyway. It's not selfish because he chose to do it and the people going up chose to do it with him. I'm pretty sure they weren't forced into this situation.

Interesting.....though, the art of climbing a mountain requires limbs, now, if Kyle is assisted by other members, is he really "climbing" Mount Killamanjaro?

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Posted by Chael_Sonnen

Interesting.....though, the art of climbing a mountain requires limbs, now, if Kyle is assisted by other members, is he really "climbing" Mount Killamanjaro?

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All this time, I already climbed Sierra Summit and didn't even know it.

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by Kpro

Unless someone dies from having to assist Maynard... all day.... every day... every hour... every minute.

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It would be selfish if his mom went up with him because she didn't want anything to happen to her son or someone that really didn't want to do it, but wanted to make sure he was OK so they went up anyway. It's not selfish because he chose to do it and the people going up chose to do it with him..

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I didn't say it was selfish at all, someone else did. Maybe I shouldn't have quoted your paragraph. I would like to see in what way he'll be "climbing" though.

"Kyle Maynard to Climb up Mount Killamanjaro"

With what?

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Posted by Kpro

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by Kpro

Unless someone dies from having to assist Maynard... all day.... every day... every hour... every minute.

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It would be selfish if his mom went up with him because she didn't want anything to happen to her son or someone that really didn't want to do it, but wanted to make sure he was OK so they went up anyway. It's not selfish because he chose to do it and the people going up chose to do it with him..

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I didn't say it was selfish at all, someone else did. Maybe I shouldn't have quoted your paragraph. I would like to see in what way he'll be "climbing" though.

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I climbed Sierra Summit with a lift. I am sure Maynard is much more of a man than I am.

I admire his courage for wanting to push his limits but he really needs to accept the fact that he does have limits and certain things are just not realistic.

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Posted by VILLIN

I admire his courage for wanting to push his limits but he really needs to accept the fact that he does have limits and certain things are just not realistic.

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Talk to the hand. Because the face aint listening.

What hand?






,,,,damn that was bad.

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Posted by VILLIN

What hand?






,,,,damn that was bad.

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I will ignore your question, but i did find out that he's right handed.

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

---

I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

---

How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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It's selfish because he is putting people at risk who are helping him. This mountain is a hard enough climb for a fit, experienced adult, but putting someone in a situation to constantly help someone else who can't help themselves would be very taxing on a mountain like this. Of course these folks are volunteering, but they are volunteering at the risk of their own well being for the sole purpose of assisting Kyle. That to me is selfish.

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by gravy13

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Posted by warglory

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am inspired that he wants to do this but I honestly think he won't be able to do it without serious help.

---

I couldn't agree more, and I think it's a bit selfish of him to rely on others on such a difficult undertaking.

---

How is this selfish? Look at the people going up with him.

Joining him in the ascent will be former U.S. military members with injuries from shrapnel wounds to post-traumatic stress to traumatic brain injury, reports CBS. A veteran expedition leader with several previous trips up Kilimanjaro will lead the group.

Good for him for attempting this in his condition. Actually good for anyone who climbs this monster.

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It's selfish because he is putting people at risk who are helping him. This mountain is a hard enough climb for a fit, experienced adult, but putting someone in a situation to constantly help someone else who can't help themselves would be very taxing on a mountain like this. Of course these folks are volunteering, but they are volunteering at the risk of their own well being for the sole purpose of assisting Kyle. That to me is selfish.

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Nope. No one is forcing them to do it. Not selfish. If he gave them an ultimatum then that could be selfish, but I'm sure he didn't do that.

So many naysayers and critics. Props to him for trying it and to the people who are helping him accomplish it.

People saying he is being selfish should re-examine what life is about. Even if the worst-case scenario happened, there are a lot worse things than to die trying to accomplish great things, or helping someone else accomplish great things for that matter.

Each their own I guess, but I'd rather die trying to do what nobody believes I can do than live my life hiding behind my disabilities and doing everything I can to stay safe.

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Posted by ncordless

So many naysayers and critics. Props to him for trying it and to the people who are helping him accomplish it.

People saying he is being selfish should re-examine what life is about. Even if the worst-case scenario happened, there are a lot worse things than to die trying to accomplish great things, or helping someone else accomplish great things for that matter.

Each their own I guess, but I'd rather die trying to do what nobody believes I can do than live my life hiding behind my disabilities and doing everything I can to stay safe.

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I don't think any of us are bashing him for trying to accomplish this feat. All of us are inspired in one way or another by this attempt but you have to wonder how much gratification can be achieved by Maynard even if he was to reach the top of Mt. Kilimanjaro?

Graduating from college was a difficult task for me and I could not have done it without the help of my parents and some college friends. Although I had help, all the work was done by me. I simply needed a little push and guidance to get me going. In the case of Maynard, he wants to do something which involves 90% help and 10% independence. Speaking for myself, I would not feel any gratification if that much help was needed for me to do or get something done.

I don't blame the naysayers for saying what they have said. We would all like to challenge our limits but we need to be realistic when approaching it. I can't just wake up one day and say I want to be an Olympic track star. I am much too old to start training and my physical attributes does not make for being a good runner.

It is a cruel world that not everyone is born relatively normal according to society. Everyone will not have the same opportunities. Everyone will not be tall, strong, fast, and or smart. We are all unique in our own ways and it is this unique-ness that helps us shine in this world. Scientists, athletes, and believers are a testament of how powerful the human body and mind can be...

Is it possible for Maynard to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro on his own? I will say yes because of the wording of the question, but that is a very generous yes. Maynard does not have actual fingers for gripping and pulling.

Will he actually climb it on his own? 90% of the time, I say no.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

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Posted by ncordless

So many naysayers and critics. Props to him for trying it and to the people who are helping him accomplish it.

People saying he is being selfish should re-examine what life is about. Even if the worst-case scenario happened, there are a lot worse things than to die trying to accomplish great things, or helping someone else accomplish great things for that matter.

Each their own I guess, but I'd rather die trying to do what nobody believes I can do than live my life hiding behind my disabilities and doing everything I can to stay safe.

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I don't think any of us are bashing him for trying to accomplish this feat. All of us are inspired in one way or another by this attempt but you have to wonder how much gratification can be achieved by Maynard even if he was to reach the top of Mt. Kilimanjaro?

Graduating from college was a difficult task for me and I could not have done it without the help of my parents and some college friends. Although I had help, all the work was done by me. I simply needed a little push and guidance to get me going. In the case of Maynard, he wants to do something which involves 90% help and 10% independence. Speaking for myself, I would not feel any gratification if that much help was needed for me to do or get something done.

I don't blame the naysayers for saying what they have said. We would all like to challenge our limits but we need to be realistic when approaching it. I can't just wake up one day and say I want to be an Olympic track star. I am much too old to start training and my physical attributes does not make for being a good runner.

It is a cruel world that not everyone is born relatively normal according to society. Everyone will not have the same opportunities. Everyone will not be tall, strong, fast, and or smart. We are all unique in our own ways and it is this unique-ness that helps us shine in this world. Scientists, athletes, and believers are a testament of how powerful the human body and mind can be...

Is it possible for Maynard to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro on his own? I will say yes because of the wording of the question, but that is a very generous yes. Maynard does not have actual fingers for gripping and pulling.

Will he actually climb it on his own? 90% of the time, I say no.

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And I am saying so what if he can't. It's the fact that he and the people around him are going to attempt it that matters

Of course you can't wake up and be an Olympic sprinter. But if you woke up one morning and decided you were going to try and win the Olympics and dedicated yourself to the task, even if you never even really got close, you'd still be better off than if you'd woke up and said no I can't do it. It's better to try and fail than to never try.

So what if people are not all born the same? Are you seriously saying that people shouldn't try to overcome their handicaps? Why should Maynard be content to let his disability control his life and decide what he can and cannot do.

Kyle Maynard could die up on Killamanjaro, and the fact that he and the people around him attempted would still be a success. Like I said before, better to die trying and failing than to live and never have tried.

And as far as how much gratification he will get out of it, I think he is probably in a better place to answer that than you or I.

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Posted by ncordless

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Posted by KungFuMaster

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Posted by ncordless

So many naysayers and critics. Props to him for trying it and to the people who are helping him accomplish it.

People saying he is being selfish should re-examine what life is about. Even if the worst-case scenario happened, there are a lot worse things than to die trying to accomplish great things, or helping someone else accomplish great things for that matter.

Each their own I guess, but I'd rather die trying to do what nobody believes I can do than live my life hiding behind my disabilities and doing everything I can to stay safe.

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I don't think any of us are bashing him for trying to accomplish this feat. All of us are inspired in one way or another by this attempt but you have to wonder how much gratification can be achieved by Maynard even if he was to reach the top of Mt. Kilimanjaro?

Graduating from college was a difficult task for me and I could not have done it without the help of my parents and some college friends. Although I had help, all the work was done by me. I simply needed a little push and guidance to get me going. In the case of Maynard, he wants to do something which involves 90% help and 10% independence. Speaking for myself, I would not feel any gratification if that much help was needed for me to do or get something done.

I don't blame the naysayers for saying what they have said. We would all like to challenge our limits but we need to be realistic when approaching it. I can't just wake up one day and say I want to be an Olympic track star. I am much too old to start training and my physical attributes does not make for being a good runner.

It is a cruel world that not everyone is born relatively normal according to society. Everyone will not have the same opportunities. Everyone will not be tall, strong, fast, and or smart. We are all unique in our own ways and it is this unique-ness that helps us shine in this world. Scientists, athletes, and believers are a testament of how powerful the human body and mind can be...

Is it possible for Maynard to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro on his own? I will say yes because of the wording of the question, but that is a very generous yes. Maynard does not have actual fingers for gripping and pulling.

Will he actually climb it on his own? 90% of the time, I say no.

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And I am saying so what if he can't. It's the fact that he and the people around him are going to attempt it that matters

Of course you can't wake up and be an Olympic sprinter. But if you woke up one morning and decided you were going to try and win the Olympics and dedicated yourself to the task, even if you never even really got close, you'd still be better off than if you'd woke up and said no I can't do it. It's better to try and fail than to never try.

So what if people are not all born the same? Are you seriously saying that people shouldn't try to overcome their handicaps? Why should Maynard be content to let his disability control his life and decide what he can and cannot do.

Kyle Maynard could die up on Killamanjaro, and the fact that he and the people around him attempted would still be a success. Like I said before, better to die trying and failing than to live and never have tried.

And as far as how much gratification he will get out of it, I think he is probably in a better place to answer that than you or I.

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My whole point is the idea that someone will die helping Kyle reach his goal in this event. This isn't prep for some sporting event, this is serious business that can cost a man his life if he doesn't know exactly what he's doing. For Kyle to blatantly accept someone's help, knowing full well that that person is essentially putting their life on the line for him so that he can reach some personal achievement (which really doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme of being a better person in life), that is the epitome of selfishness.

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Posted by ncordless




And I am saying so what if he can't. It's the fact that he and the people around him are going to attempt it that matters

Of course you can't wake up and be an Olympic sprinter. But if you woke up one morning and decided you were going to try and win the Olympics and dedicated yourself to the task, even if you never even really got close, you'd still be better off than if you'd woke up and said no I can't do it. It's better to try and fail than to never try.

So what if people are not all born the same? Are you seriously saying that people shouldn't try to overcome their handicaps? Why should Maynard be content to let his disability control his life and decide what he can and cannot do.

Kyle Maynard could die up on Killamanjaro, and the fact that he and the people around him attempted would still be a success. Like I said before, better to die trying and failing than to live and never have tried.

And as far as how much gratification he will get out of it, I think he is probably in a better place to answer that than you or I.

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I agree the attempt itself is a success. It has eastern philosophy written all over it. And as someone who tries to live his life according to eastern philosophy, I must object to Maynard's ambitions. I cannot allow someone to risk his life to help me achieve something as selfish as climbing a mountain. I agree completely with Warglory here...

If Maynard was to embark on a selfless act such as helping world hunger - and needed physical help and support, I would support the act and donate to the cause. Climbing a mountain is selfish IMO. One can argue it has symbolic meanings and will inspired folks around the world to test the limits of their bodies - but to me, that is pure selfishness. Here in America, we do a lot of selfish things and try to fabricate some out of this world meaning to justify it and make it appear honorable.

If you want to be selfless and inspire others to do the same, you go out and give your heart and soul to helping others and expect nothing in return. You would go into third world countries and bleed so others can live. That is being selfless. To me, climbing a mountain is strictly a personal ambition. The physical benefits will benefit no one other than the climber. One can argue the intangible benefits will inspire others...but I don't buy it. People who want to set records and swim around the world, fly around the world etc. are doing so because of personal ambition.

In the case of Maynard, it is a personal ambition but his situation is unique and requires a team of expert to help him do so.

Let me ask you personally, ncordless - would you allow someone to risk his life to help you climb Mt. Kilimanjaro?

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Posted by KungFuMaster

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Posted by ncordless




And I am saying so what if he can't. It's the fact that he and the people around him are going to attempt it that matters

Of course you can't wake up and be an Olympic sprinter. But if you woke up one morning and decided you were going to try and win the Olympics and dedicated yourself to the task, even if you never even really got close, you'd still be better off than if you'd woke up and said no I can't do it. It's better to try and fail than to never try.

So what if people are not all born the same? Are you seriously saying that people shouldn't try to overcome their handicaps? Why should Maynard be content to let his disability control his life and decide what he can and cannot do.

Kyle Maynard could die up on Killamanjaro, and the fact that he and the people around him attempted would still be a success. Like I said before, better to die trying and failing than to live and never have tried.

And as far as how much gratification he will get out of it, I think he is probably in a better place to answer that than you or I.

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I agree the attempt itself is a success. It has eastern philosophy written all over it. And as someone who tries to live his life according to eastern philosophy, I must object to Maynard's ambitions. I cannot allow someone to risk his life to help me achieve something as selfish as climbing a mountain. I agree completely with Warglory here...

If Maynard was to embark on a selfless act such as helping world hunger - and needed physical help and support, I would support the act and donate to the cause. Climbing a mountain is selfish IMO. One can argue it has symbolic meanings and will inspired folks around the world to test the limits of their bodies - but to me, that is pure selfishness. Here in America, we do a lot of selfish things and try to fabricate some out of this world meaning to justify it and make it appear honorable.

If you want to be selfless and inspire others to do the same, you go out and give your heart and soul to helping others and expect nothing in return. You would go into third world countries and bleed so others can live. That is being selfless. To me, climbing a mountain is strictly a personal ambition. The physical benefits will benefit no one other than the climber. One can argue the intangible benefits will inspire others...but I don't buy it. People who want to set records and swim around the world, fly around the world etc. are doing so because of personal ambition.

In the case of Maynard, it is a personal ambition but his situation is unique and requires a team of expert to help him do so.

Let me ask you personally, ncordless - would you allow someone to risk his life to help you climb Mt. Kilimanjaro?

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Tried to prop, but I must spread the love. This is my exact point in a much more coherent form.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

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Posted by ncordless




And I am saying so what if he can't. It's the fact that he and the people around him are going to attempt it that matters

Of course you can't wake up and be an Olympic sprinter. But if you woke up one morning and decided you were going to try and win the Olympics and dedicated yourself to the task, even if you never even really got close, you'd still be better off than if you'd woke up and said no I can't do it. It's better to try and fail than to never try.

So what if people are not all born the same? Are you seriously saying that people shouldn't try to overcome their handicaps? Why should Maynard be content to let his disability control his life and decide what he can and cannot do.

Kyle Maynard could die up on Killamanjaro, and the fact that he and the people around him attempted would still be a success. Like I said before, better to die trying and failing than to live and never have tried.

And as far as how much gratification he will get out of it, I think he is probably in a better place to answer that than you or I.

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I agree the attempt itself is a success. It has eastern philosophy written all over it. And as someone who tries to live his life according to eastern philosophy, I must object to Maynard's ambitions. I cannot allow someone to risk his life to help me achieve something as selfish as climbing a mountain. I agree completely with Warglory here...

If Maynard was to embark on a selfless act such as helping world hunger - and needed physical help and support, I would support the act and donate to the cause. Climbing a mountain is selfish IMO. One can argue it has symbolic meanings and will inspired folks around the world to test the limits of their bodies - but to me, that is pure selfishness. Here in America, we do a lot of selfish things and try to fabricate some out of this world meaning to justify it and make it appear honorable.

If you want to be selfless and inspire others to do the same, you go out and give your heart and soul to helping others and expect nothing in return. You would go into third world countries and bleed so others can live. That is being selfless. To me, climbing a mountain is strictly a personal ambition. The physical benefits will benefit no one other than the climber. One can argue the intangible benefits will inspire others...but I don't buy it. People who want to set records and swim around the world, fly around the world etc. are doing so because of personal ambition.

In the case of Maynard, it is a personal ambition but his situation is unique and requires a team of expert to help him do so.

Let me ask you personally, ncordless - would you allow someone to risk his life to help you climb Mt. Kilimanjaro?

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If they wanted to, definitely. What's more, if I was in a position to help someone like Maynard climb that mountain, I'd risk my life to do it. I would have no problem asking people who know the risks to engage in possibly life-threatening activity. Last time I did it was when I rafted the Rogue River. I am an inexperienced rafter, and while I tried my best I got us in a couple hairy situations by getting ejected. What's worse, not only did I accept help, I paid for it. I had a river guide, and I am glad I did. And you know what else? I bet so was he. Now I realize that rafting the rogue is not the same thing as climbing the tallest mountain in Africa, but the principle is the same. If the people are in a position where they know the risks and have an opportunity to accept or deny them, there is nothing selfish in receiving their acceptance. To refuse it is paternalistic in my opinion. I tend to treat people like they are intelligent enough to be able to make decisions for themselves. I call it respect. Your version of selfishness contains no respect for the individual who decides your goal or cause is what he wants as well and determines to aid you at his own peril. Again, you seem to think that it is an inherently bad thing to ask someone to risk their life There are much worse things than dying.

And there are things much better than just living. Your idea of selfishness is too arbitrary. What you see as selfishness, others might see as the greatest gift they could receive, the opportunity to act selflessly in helping someone else fulfill a personal goal that they would not otherwise be able to achieve by themselves. Take the example donating a kidney to someone who will otherwise die. Even if the act of accepting an organ donation could be considered selfish, the giving and taking an organ is as much an act of selflessness as selfishness. Is it always better to deny the opportunity for someone to act selflessly in order to not act selfishly? For selflessness to exist in the world, so must selfishness. Most selfish action is bad action, but not necessarily all of it. But the thing is, the question is moot in this context because accepting help in a life threatening situation is not an act of selfishness.

If the rule of ethics to be followed is that you should never ask someone or accept their offer to engage in life-threatening behavior to accomplish personal ambitions, the consequences are absurd. If your goal is to survive an attack or fire, it is selfish call the police or the fire department. . . and the more your life is in danger the more selfish you are. Driving a car with passengers to a place of your choosing is selfish. Batman was selfish for allowing Robin to help him. Watching MMA is about as selfish as it gets, because you are allowing fighters to accept the task of engaging in physical combat for your personal pleasure.
Ridiculous.

The better rule is to give them the opportunity and let them accept or deny the decision to engage in life threatening behavior, even if it is for your benefit. If a person is fully aware of the dangers, affirmatively takes on the challenge and all the risks it entails (and there would be a ton because I am in no shape to climb Mt. K right now), then I would gladly accept their help with gratitude.

I am always gracious when I receive help. I accept them in the same manner in which I give them. However, when it comes to monumental feats such as climbing a mountain, I could not allow another to risk his life so I may climb a mountain. I cannot let him do that...

The example you gave about river rafting is not anywhere close to what we are talking about. You paid for a service. What I am talking about is refusing the help because I do not want to jeopardize another's life for my own personal amusement and ambition. If I paid a mountain climbing expert to guide me through the climb of Mt. Kilimanjaro, then I simply paid for a service. Both sides know what they are getting into...no strings attach.

If you are my friend and you are a good climber and I was this unfit person with minimal strength and let's just say I have a weak limb as well - I would value your friendship and your life and say no to you even if you were the one to insist on taking me for a climb. That is the difference between you and I. I accept help when it is offered and when I need it but if the help means endangering "the giver", I will almost always decline.

Of course, if my life was in danger and you were truly my friend, I would certainly hope you would risk your life to save mine>>>because I would do the same.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

I am always gracious when I receive help. I accept them in the same manner in which I give them. However, when it comes to monumental feats such as climbing a mountain, I could not allow another to risk his life so I may climb a mountain. I cannot let him do that...

The example you gave about river rafting is not anywhere close to what we are talking about. You paid for a service. What I am talking about is refusing the help because I do not want to jeopardize another's life for my own personal amusement and ambition. If I paid a mountain climbing expert to guide me through the climb of Mt. Kilimanjaro, then I simply paid for a service. Both sides know what they are getting into...no strings attach.

If you are my friend and you are a good climber and I was this unfit person with minimal strength and let's just say I have a weak limb as well - I would value your friendship and your life and say no to you even if you were the one to insist on taking me for a climb. That is the difference between you and I. I accept help when it is offered and when I need it but if the help means jeopardizing "the giver", I will almost always decline.

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So if Kyle gives them money it is ok, but if he doesn't then it is selfish? What does the addition of money add? If anything, isn't it more selfish have someone risk their life for money than have them do it of their own free will?

If I was your friend and a good climber, and you were going to climb a mountain and not let me help you where you would otherwise fail, I would take it as an insult to our friendship and tell you that my life is to do what I please with and it is not for you to judge what is or what is not a worthy risk. If you can make the decision to risk your life, that so can I with mine..

A selfish act is not just one which is done to gain an advantage by using someone. It requires that you are acting against the interests of somone. There is nothing selfish about things done for mutual advantage. I bet you that every single one of the people going up Mt. K with Maynard desire him to come. They want it, too.

I see selfishness every day. I spent last summer donating 40 hours of time per week helping people that had been taken advantage of by selfish people. There was a woman from a foreign country who had been brought over by her husband, who had relatives who were well-established in the area. He took her away from her family, got her pregnant, and repeatedly physically, sexually, and emotionally abuse her, all the while not allowing her to leave his home or to contact anyone. I won't go into to specifics besides to tell you that some of the things done were forcing her to have sex with him within 48 hours of her giving birth, and intentionally get into car wrecks with her and their child in the car. Among many other things, his behavior was selfish in that he was stealing her freedom and life against her will. When social workers finally found out that she was there, they convinced her to get help. She came to me and asked for it, letting me know that she felt her husband would try to kill her and her child, and told me that she thought he might try and attack me for taking her away from him. By your definition, her act was selfish. She was not able to do what she needed to do by herself (she only spoke Cantonese for starters), and she thought that she was putting me in danger. And I am so glad that she did, because it felt really good to take that burden from her and fix it. We put a 2-year restraining order on his ass and when he violated it we put him in jail, got him zero custody in the divorce, and sent her on her merry way back to her family and safety. What she did wasn't selfish. I wanted to help her. The people with Kyle want to help him, are aware of the risks, and want the challenge.

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Posted by KungFuMaster

Of course, if my life was in danger and you were truly my friend, I would certainly hope you would risk your life to save mine>>>because I would do the same.

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Trust me, if your life was in danger and I could help I would do so whether you were my friend or not.

We should make a thread where we all make a dissertation on ethics, morals, and the balance of the two.

I can see the selfish arguement, but i also think those people are grown adults and it's their choice. If they die its their fault. Survival of the fittest.