kongo/herring

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MFOTHER
3/2/08 12:57:12PM
was anyone else besides me (and herring) VERY surprised at kongo's game plan. although he was able to take hh down at will, why would he want to be there? He did a good job of controlling herring, but ultimatly its a dangerous move, as he has a lack of GG. i wish we saw the stand-up brawl it was billed as, but i am glad herring squeaked out the win.
cmill21
3/2/08 1:00:58PM
I was surprised, but I thought once he took him down he did nothing but get reversed and worked. I think Kongo has broken ribs from those knee's, but after getting rocked 5 seconds in I don't blame him. Heath has better stand up then Kongo, and it showed, he acctually did what he should have done because he wasn't going to hurt Heath standing.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 1:11:50PM
although i agree that heath has better standup, i dont think it was shown 100% last night. YEs he did rock him off the bat, but kongo did some things right.
But yes herring warmed those ribs last night and i garuntee kongo is feeling it today
nickcuc547
3/2/08 1:16:00PM
i thought that was a very disappointing fight. i had kongo winning but it was very very close. kongo definitely showed improvement on the ground but he has a long way to go. i didn't mind the game plan either because i don't think heath was expecting it. overall neither fighter impressed, both looked sloppy and not top 10 material.
keith-hackney1
3/2/08 1:22:03PM
Hippysmacker nailed this one for me a few weeks back when i asked why kongo was stepping down the ladder to fight herring rather than a silvia or gonzaga having just won two or 3 straight wins.
The idea was to show ufc and kongo up and coming fans that kongo could beat a vet in herring with his ever improving ground game. Silly move, big chance for herring, he took it. i picked herring to beat cheick mainly because he's fought the best in pride and has had loads of battles with the best. Kongo should not of accepted a fight with heath.
MFOTHER
3/2/08 1:25:52PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Hippysmacker nailed this one for me a few weeks back when i asked why kongo was stepping down the ladder to fight herring rather than a silvia or gonzaga having just won two or 3 straight wins.
The idea was to show ufc and kongo up and coming fans that kongo could beat a vet in herring with his ever improving ground game. Silly move, big chance for herring, he took it. i picked herring to beat cheick mainly because he's fought the best in pride and has had loads of battles with the best. Kongo should not of accepted a fight with heath.



good call. if kongo thought this would be any easy fight, he should have watched some pride fights.
And lets not forget herring could have gotten that big tim fight, if a. the ref had stopped it (many fighters have had fights stopped and were alot more coherent than big nog was after that head kick) or b. he just jumped on him and finished it
herring is no joke
gartface
3/2/08 2:47:27PM
What really impressed me was how easily Herring worked Kongo on the ground, and in the post fight said he was pissed because he didn't work ground at all during training. Made me chuckle.
I think Heath is among the elite heavyweights in the UFC now, and would have knocked Kongo out if they stayed on the feet.
Also agree with you about the ribs, I am interested in the medical suspension list.
loller90278
3/2/08 2:56:18PM
i dont think kongo has improved his ground game one bit, sure he took herring down, but besides using brute strength he had no clue how to mount any offense. his defense on the ground was just to hold him until they got stood back up.

for christ sakes he had full mount and he let it go!

also it shows herring didn't work on his ground game because he could have had an americana or kimura or any armlock during the later minutes of the 3rd(?) round i think.

not a great fight, but not a bad fight either.

i wanna see herring fight the winner of werdum/vera

and kongo fight antoni hardonk
ToeZup
3/2/08 3:22:48PM
He has improved portions of his ground game but it is far from steller.
I hope he keeps training and improves it but he will always be a striker.
I'm no Herring fan at all so i was dissapointed in this fight. Kongo is way better than that.
jiujitsufreak74
3/2/08 3:24:50PM
after the fight Herring admitted he worked absolutely 0 ground game in preparation for this fight so take that for what it's worth

imo this was just like his Marrero fight only Heat did more damage then Carmelo did. Heat won it 29-18 in my eyes because he was more active on the ground, reversed positions and did more damage. also he dropped Kongo once or twice although the second one was more of a trip. even still Herring was the victor in my eyes and luckily 2 of the judges agreed. i think that Kongo should get his insides checked out because even though he has a 12 pack his organs have to be messed up after the repeated blows Heath Delivered to his stomach unblocked. he teed off on his stomach for a whole minute without answer. and that is not even counting the knees. those knees were vicious and you could see Kongo wince as Heat unloaded on him. his kidneys must be sore and i think that Heat did CC a favor by breaking his rib as payback

i am sure if Heath had any inclination that Kongo would try and take him down he would have trained for it and done much better. oh, and ironically i was watching the pre-fight right before the event started and a reporter asked Heath what would happen if Kongo tried to take him down. Heath said crazier things have happened but that it was unlikely. it is funny to look at things in hindsight
jocksmall
3/2/08 9:59:03PM
i was suprised as well this wasnt the stand-up fight we expected. i rooted for heath and was very suprised at the decision. i thought kongo edged him out but i wasnt complaining. in my mind nothing was settled by this fight because there wasnt a clear winner and if it continued either guy could have prevailed.
cmill21
3/2/08 11:59:28PM

Posted by jocksmall

i was suprised as well this wasnt the stand-up fight we expected. i rooted for heath and was very suprised at the decision. i thought kongo edged him out but i wasnt complaining. in my mind nothing was settled by this fight because there wasnt a clear winner and if it continued either guy could have prevailed.



Really? I thought it was a clear cut win for Herring, he got the huge knockdown in round one, and while he got taken down he always easily reversed it and controled as well as did damage. Just MO though.
Jackelope
3/3/08 12:04:18AM
The only thing I wish could have happened more is that Herring would have really opened up his GnP. Once Kongo took his back and did nothing he should have known there was no threat... so he shoulda rained hell, IMO.

In the end, I'm happy. Kongo got exposed and that's the number 1 thing I was hoping for in this fight.
cmill21
3/3/08 12:23:34AM

Posted by Jackelope

The only thing I wish could have happened more is that Herring would have really opened up his GnP. Once Kongo took his back and did nothing he should have known there was no threat... so he shoulda rained hell, IMO.

In the end, I'm happy. Kongo got exposed and that's the number 1 thing I was hoping for in this fight.



I just wish they allowed knee's to the head. It would have been over asap lol. I thought Herring would have been able to do alot more had Kongo not been as strong as he is, it was hard for him to posture since Kongo was able to hold him so well. I knew as soon as I heard Kaman was working with Herring that if it stayed standing that Kongo would look bad, I just wish that Kongo would have stayed up more.
NatedawgThaM
3/3/08 12:32:32AM
I was impressed with Kongo, he definitely won that 1st round and the beginning of the 2nd IMO until Herring stole it with those vicious knees at the end. Now we know he has developed a ground game or at least has takedowns, he just needs to learn what to do from there like learn submissions or GNP.

Herring didn't really impress me since he didn't finish Kongo. His conditioning looked good but he still should work a little on finishing fights.

From here Kongo from here should fight Mir or Antoni Hardonk which are very winnable fights especially since Mir's chin is always in question to me. Herring should fight Tim Sylvia now. That would be a pretty interesting fight. A good old fashion Heavyweight Brawl as long as Tim comes in the way he fought Big Nog and does not take Herring down. That would be a war!

Pretty good fight actually, wasn't too exciting but wasn't a boring LNP fight either. Very entertaining, both earned my respect though definitely. Especially since they keep on getting better and better which you got to respect.
okilian
3/3/08 1:00:05AM

Posted by cmill21

I was surprised, but I thought once he took him down he did nothing but get reversed and worked. I think Kongo has broken ribs from those knee's, but after getting rocked 5 seconds in I don't blame him. Heath has better stand up then Kongo, and it showed, he acctually did what he should have done because he wasn't going to hurt Heath standing.



Those knees weren't very vicious, very few of them landed flush. If they were fighting under pride rules however might have been a very different story.
Jackelope
3/3/08 2:22:49AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by Jackelope

The only thing I wish could have happened more is that Herring would have really opened up his GnP. Once Kongo took his back and did nothing he should have known there was no threat... so he shoulda rained hell, IMO.

In the end, I'm happy. Kongo got exposed and that's the number 1 thing I was hoping for in this fight.



I just wish they allowed knee's to the head. It would have been over asap lol. I thought Herring would have been able to do alot more had Kongo not been as strong as he is, it was hard for him to posture since Kongo was able to hold him so well. I knew as soon as I heard Kaman was working with Herring that if it stayed standing that Kongo would look bad, I just wish that Kongo would have stayed up more.



Yeah, that's so true about the knees. I was at my buddy's house watching it.. he says "If only Pride rules were in effect..." then I hear Joe Rogan say "I bet Heath is wishing he was fighting under those Pride rules right now" and then afterwards in an interview Heath says "I was missin Pride rules" and it got me thinking about the post earlier when we were all in agreement that knees to the head on the ground should be allowed. It really would open up the game a lot more and take away a lot of LnP stuff. Kongo wasn't doing anything but mitigating damage on the ground.
Pookie
3/3/08 2:32:00AM
I had it 30-27 heath, but of course me picking heath may have askewed my decision on the first round.. Definitely thought he took 2 & 3 though.
tap_or_snap
3/3/08 11:31:43AM

Posted by nickcuc547

i thought that was a very disappointing fight. i had kongo winning but it was very very close. kongo definitely showed improvement on the ground but he has a long way to go. i didn't mind the game plan either because i don't think heath was expecting it. overall neither fighter impressed, both looked sloppy and not top 10 material.



I totall disagree i thought both fighters put on a great show, kongos improvement with his takedowns was astronomical, this loss will be good for him, if he can make such a huge improvement in the takedown department then he can make just as big an improvement with his positional control on the ground. Thats why he lost the fight, he was whooping ass for the first round and a half, he lost the last round and a half because he was reversed in each and heath pinned him down in side control and dropped knees till the buzzer sounded.

This fight is a prime example of why all fights regardless of whether a title is on the line or not should be five rounds.
gartface
3/3/08 12:46:43PM
Kongo looked like an idiot on the ground. And probably would have gotten KO'd on the feet.
saemskin
3/3/08 1:57:48PM
Kongo is really really strong. Aside from that I dont see him ever being in contention for a belt. I put alot of cash on Herring winning that fight.
tap_or_snap
3/3/08 2:06:07PM

Posted by gartface

Kongo looked like an idiot on the ground. And probably would have gotten KO'd on the feet.



yeah and he has looked like an "idiot" (i assume by that you mean incompetant in that particular area as actually cheik's a very intelligent guy) in regard to his ability to take a fight down in his past fights and look how much that changed with only a short peiod of time training with page.

Kongos gunna be a big deal, i predict in the next year we are going to see some serious improvement from this dude. Hell what with france legalising mma give it a year and kongo will be heading up his own team of elitie garlic chomping bad asses!
cmill21
3/3/08 5:52:06PM

Posted by tap_or_snap


Posted by gartface

Kongo looked like an idiot on the ground. And probably would have gotten KO'd on the feet.



yeah and he has looked like an "idiot" (i assume by that you mean incompetant in that particular area as actually cheik's a very intelligent guy) in regard to his ability to take a fight down in his past fights and look how much that changed with only a short peiod of time training with page.

Kongos gunna be a big deal, i predict in the next year we are going to see some serious improvement from this dude. Hell what with france legalising mma give it a year and kongo will be heading up his own team of elitie garlic chomping bad asses!



I really disagree, all he is is strength. His ground game is basic at best, his striking is decent and needs a ton of work and he was dropped pretty quickly against Herring and Yvel.
telnights
3/3/08 7:07:47PM
Well I wasn't shocked that he tired the ground game I was shocked that he keep it up after getting easily reversed more than once and paying for it every time. His corner should have been yelling for him to stop going for take downs.
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