Why Did Kimbo Choose MMA Over Boxing?

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holt8081
6/28/08 12:51:48AM
Kimbo would be destroyed by a medium to top level MMA fighter just as he would against a medium to top level boxer. Link
Ben_Hutch
6/28/08 12:56:08AM
He chose MMA because he can be shit, and stil get a ridiculous amount of money, unlike boxing.
jae_1833
6/28/08 1:07:06AM
If you look at his stand up it's actually pretty sloppy....he's got an outstanding overhand....lot's of power....but horrible foot work and head movement. Those two things are much more key in a boxing match than with MMA.
Sam_Rothstein
6/28/08 1:14:05AM
I personally think he went with mma because of the gloves.


Im not sure how good those hands would be with the 10 lbs on

seanfu
6/28/08 2:37:21AM
Agreed, boxing is a new level of striker. Streetfighting only showed that he had great attributes and SOME boxing fundamentals.

He has good head movement and power but is a little immobile, comes straight foreward, and swings wide.

In MMA (HEEAVYYWEIIGHTT) you can get away with being a poor striker but he needs a solid ground game.
The-Don
6/28/08 3:11:14AM

Posted by seanfu

Agreed, boxing is a new level of striker. Streetfighting only showed that he had great attributes and SOME boxing fundamentals.

He has good head movement and power but is a little immobile, comes straight foreward, and swings wide.

In MMA (HEEAVYYWEIIGHTT) you can get away with being a poor striker but he needs a solid ground game.



Sadly thoguh I think kimbo is still 2-3 years away from having a solid ground game...
Raykill
6/28/08 4:04:19AM

Posted by The-Don


Posted by seanfu

Agreed, boxing is a new level of striker. Streetfighting only showed that he had great attributes and SOME boxing fundamentals.

He has good head movement and power but is a little immobile, comes straight foreward, and swings wide.

In MMA (HEEAVYYWEIIGHTT) you can get away with being a poor striker but he needs a solid ground game.



Sadly thoguh I think kimbo is still 2-3 years away from having a solid ground game...



I don’t think it’s going to matter. I don’t see Kimbo in this sport 2-3 years from now. Gary will use him like he’s doing right now to create momentum for his show and then drop him when he starts rolling. I don’t think he will be picked up by another organization after that.

But what do I know? I thought you died from pop rocks and soda. I looked pretty stupid when the combination didn’t work on my ex-wife.

telnights
6/28/08 6:19:26AM
Well Kimbo's stand up is fair at best. I don't even think he could win Golden Gloves level boxing matches more less pro. I also think his power is more of a myth than anything. TKOing Tank and JT (JT really doesnt count because JT won that fight the Ref just gave it to Kimbo) isn't saying much and if you watch his youtube stuff you will see he really didn't knock anyone out there either. I'm not really sure why he chose MMA maybe because of the fact its easy to get big money without a lot of work. Also it doesn't take really any fights to become pro and MMA is the big thing right now. Also my guess would be no one want to promote him real heave in boxing because you cant make big money in boxing having someone fight cans unless your name is Tyson. I have been out of training for 2 years and I think with 7 weeks training I could beat Kimbo. But I don't really blame Kimbo he knows he needs a lot of work and he is just in it for the money its mainly the Shaw's that are making Kimbo out to be more than he is. It also doesn't help that most of the press is playing right along with. Like SI putting Kimbo on the cover when the fact is he isn't even a mid level MMA fighter.
AchillesHeel
6/28/08 8:26:33AM
Because MMA is more fun.
The-Don
6/28/08 1:29:19PM
Some good points above... But I actually do see Kimbo around in a fewa years.. with Elite XC or any of the bigger groups... NO... But he will putter around a few years I think in some of the smaller shows around the country and the world.. Unless his skills inprove dramaticly he'll fade away fighting the occasional freak fight like if he steps into teh ring with Butterbean or guys like that... we'll hear of it... Persoanlly I think training with BAs is not good for him.. Nothing against Bas as a trainer.. but it seems like to me he is being coddeled there and treated like he is a top teir guy... he needs to get his own prespective on how good he is really not and train in a gym where people hold some contempt for him and realize that he has ALOT to learn still.. and that might make him train harder to earn the respect of those around him... He seems like a nice guy... I feel bad for him he is being USED this way... but if wants to be thought of as a top teir guy he needs to train differently and then start fighting guys who can beat him.. big deal if he gets few losses.. he'll learn from them.. JT was supposed to roll over for him the 1st round which is why he was picked and we saw how that turned out... I wonder what Kimbo really thinks and not what he is told to think...
dust
6/28/08 2:20:09PM

Posted by The-Don


Posted by seanfu

Agreed, boxing is a new level of striker. Streetfighting only showed that he had great attributes and SOME boxing fundamentals.

He has good head movement and power but is a little immobile, comes straight foreward, and swings wide.

In MMA (HEEAVYYWEIIGHTT) you can get away with being a poor striker but he needs a solid ground game.



Sadly thoguh I think kimbo is still 2-3 years away from having a solid ground game...

He'll never have a ground game. People like Pete Spratt have been training for many years and still suck against good competition.
Figsak
6/28/08 3:12:09PM
Possibly.

Some ppl are just naturally good at some things, like throwing a punch, or wreslting, and some ppl will never be good at certain things no matter how much ppl school them, like math, or talking to girls.

JimiMak
6/28/08 4:56:31PM

Posted by Sam_Rothstein

I personally think he went with mma because of the gloves.


Im not sure how good those hands would be with the 10 lbs on




10lbs? noone throws w/ 10lbs... 16oz maybe
Sam_Rothstein
6/29/08 12:50:07AM

Posted by JimiMak


Posted by Sam_Rothstein

I personally think he went with mma because of the gloves.


Im not sure how good those hands would be with the 10 lbs on




10lbs? noone throws w/ 10lbs... 16oz maybe



I mean to say 10 oz. Thats what they use in pro boxing matches, not 16 oz
EliasG
6/29/08 3:33:08PM
Actually I don't think Kimbo's footwork is bad. His head movement isn't bad either. I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Heavyweights are notoriously bad about "footwork" and even great heavyweights can be plodding. THe issue is in footwork is defensive, balance for combinations, and step offs to the side. He does all of those things and I can think of at least 20 heavyweights that don't. He doesn't throw "wide" shots, in fact he throws a lot of body shots and over hand rights. I've seen him throw left hooks but that doesn't make him "wide". Most of his punches are actually what you would call "short" in boxing. He throws uppercuts, right crosses, overhand rights, and fights between the shoulders and pulls his hands back. Are you guys watching the same fights or just making stuff up?

He can get a bigger name quicker in MMA that's why he took it. It's also why it was offered. In boxing, there is a lot more to wade through. Of course, if he can make a big enough legit name in mma (mid level competition) then he can switch over to boxing too and make money. I mean if someone came to you and said, hey you can make money on showtime right now or you can work your way up through 'ballroom boxing' to espn shows which one will you take? He is the MMA butterbean, but let's not forget---butterbean can be very fun to watch. ;)
JimiMak
6/29/08 6:29:01PM
His standup is barely getting him past the midcard guys in mma. In a boxing match he'd be killed.
EliasG
6/29/08 11:31:21PM
Wait, which mid level guy did he lose to in MMA due to strikes? No one? So I guess that doesn't say much for that hypothesis on his ability in the boxig ring. I have spent numerous hours as a pro boxing sparring partner for heavyweights. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that there are a lot of "pro puds" out there. He'd do fine, and you could bet on that. Now, would he do fine against the top heavy's I doubt it, but then again, they wouldn't make him tired by wrestling him to the ground. There is a LOT less to think about in boxing than in MMA. IN boxing your defense is from your waist to your forehead. The side of your head, side of your body back, legs, etc.. you don't have to think about defensing. You can cruise and conserve energy, especially in a heavyweight fight if you have a jab and can move your feet. I've watched him do both as well as stalk forward. He'd be tough in a boxing ring, very tough.

I'm no "apologist' for Kimbo I just think the "strikers' need to be a little more real .
Figsak
6/30/08 12:32:29AM
Why would Kimbo choose to go into MMA rather than Boxing??

Thats like asking what system should I buy, Atari, or Playstation 3.

One of these sporting events is on a monumental rise, one is 5-7yrs from being phased out.

I'll let you figure out which is which.
EliasG
7/1/08 4:13:43AM
I don't agree with you but I will say that in the US more athletes are going to MMA.

Boxing is now driven by Mexican viewers. In the future it may be driven by a combination of Mexican and Asian viewers. Boxing still pulls more PPV numbers and they pull larger overall viewerships and gate. We just don't have identifiable, flashy American stars except for Pavlik and ODLH who is Latino. Mayweather was a star (dancing) but is retired so he don't count. All the Heavy's are Euros and the US fan doesn't relate. I love MMA but I'll take some boxing PPVs over MMA anyday. What I DO like about MMA though is larger cards, shorter fights.

There are a lot of aspiring boxers among the MMA ranks though bro, don't be fooled. :) I was offered 800 for my first pro boxing fight. Most MMA guys won't get 800 until they are headlining a small show.
mrsmiley
7/1/08 5:49:45AM
I think it's probably a combanation of a lot of what you guys are saying,but I'll give Kimbo the benifet of the doubt,and say that maybe,just maybe he chose MMA over boxing in part, because of the challenge MMA presents.
Maybe after reflecting on the beating Sean Gannon gave him,he discovered the guy trained in "Mixed Martial Arts",as opposed to "Druken Big Guy Boxing",and thought maybe learning the art would do him some good.

I'm sure though a lot of it had to do with the money,and it's the right time in the sport,and Kimbo's story and image are marketable.
Figsak
7/1/08 2:39:43PM

Posted by EliasG

I don't agree with you but I will say that in the US more athletes are going to MMA.

Boxing is now driven by Mexican viewers. In the future it may be driven by a combination of Mexican and Asian viewers. Boxing still pulls more PPV numbers and they pull larger overall viewerships and gate. We just don't have identifiable, flashy American stars except for Pavlik and ODLH who is Latino. Mayweather was a star (dancing) but is retired so he don't count. All the Heavy's are Euros and the US fan doesn't relate. I love MMA but I'll take some boxing PPVs over MMA anyday. What I DO like about MMA though is larger cards, shorter fights.

There are a lot of aspiring boxers among the MMA ranks though bro, don't be fooled. :) I was offered 800 for my first pro boxing fight. Most MMA guys won't get 800 until they are headlining a small show.



Alot can change in 5-7yrs. I'm basing this off the fact 5yrs ago I was a BIG boxing fan, I found MMA, and now I can't even WATCH a boxing match without nodding off.

If were both still here in 5-7yrs, I'll tell you I told you so.

How about a 6yr avatar bet that MMA not only pulls bigger numbers universally by then, but it LAPS boxing.
mrsmiley
7/1/08 8:13:52PM

Posted by Figsak


Posted by EliasG

I don't agree with you but I will say that in the US more athletes are going to MMA.

Boxing is now driven by Mexican viewers. In the future it may be driven by a combination of Mexican and Asian viewers. Boxing still pulls more PPV numbers and they pull larger overall viewerships and gate. We just don't have identifiable, flashy American stars except for Pavlik and ODLH who is Latino. Mayweather was a star (dancing) but is retired so he don't count. All the Heavy's are Euros and the US fan doesn't relate. I love MMA but I'll take some boxing PPVs over MMA anyday. What I DO like about MMA though is larger cards, shorter fights.

There are a lot of aspiring boxers among the MMA ranks though bro, don't be fooled. :) I was offered 800 for my first pro boxing fight. Most MMA guys won't get 800 until they are headlining a small show.



Alot can change in 5-7yrs. I'm basing this off the fact 5yrs ago I was a BIG boxing fan, I found MMA, and now I can't even WATCH a boxing match without nodding off.

I
If were both still here in 5-7yrs, I'll tell you I told you so.

How about a 6yr avatar bet that MMA not only pulls bigger numbers universally by then, but it LAPS boxing.



I think you might be right.Especialy if the UFC successfully expands into India and other countries like Zuffa is planning.
EliasG
7/5/08 11:53:42AM
expansion helps mma, but boxing is institutionalized in 100's of countries around the world. THere are hundreds of thousands of kids, adults, etc... training boxing. THere are just 'thousands' of mma enthusiasts. The US pulls a lot of fighters from wrestling which is established in high schools and colleges as a farm system. THe rest of the world does NOT have this. Brazil has a long established BJJ and fighting culture, so does Japan. The rest of the world does not outside of maybe Thailand. Believe me, they are not all jumping off of Thai boxing a cultural institution for mma. GUys might crossover but thai boxing will stay the top dog in Thailand.

No, I think as an entertainment commidity MMA will continue to grow but it's not even close to boxing and will not take over in 5 years. That's like saying that basketball is so popular that it will take soccer's place. Sure the NBA is popular in the US and is growin in popularity around the world, but it doesn't even hold a candle to soccer's 10,000 watt lightbulb in world popularity.

That's probably the proper analogy. Boxing has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of practitioners. MMA has thousands. MMA doesn't even have an established amatuer system. Talk to me when thousands of kids around the world practice amatuer mma with unified rules and grow into the sport.

I absolutely LOVE MMA but you have to have a little perspective here that moves beyond "I'm from the US and I like to watch MMA more."
EliasG
7/5/08 11:57:43AM
I am curious as to why India is considered such a rife market for MMA. Sure there are a billion people and they are a sport loving people, i'm just not sure what the market would be. There are a LOT of sports vying for attention in India and while it has a substantial middle class and growing wealth, it isn't a culturally established sports option. I suppose since their middle class is about 300 million, almost the size of the US, that picking up maybe 1% of that population for reduced priced PPV looks like a HUGE marketshare but I think this will not work, at all. We'll see though. I just don't see in roads being made there. One good thing will be with India's techno savvy middle class though---we'll get digital feeds of fights in india that are high quality far before we have to watch it on PPV here. :)
Figsak
7/5/08 7:37:49PM
Yes, but the NBA doesn't pull in millions in PPV's every month. And soccer is so ******* boring... I just don't get it.

I say 7yrs tops. Within 7yrs MMA will have taken the world by storm and will be among the worlds most popular sports.

If you look at the number of ppl who even KNEW what MMA was as little as 3yrs ago compared to today, it's just tripping over itself it's growing so fast. I'd venture to say that thanks to the internet, MMA is the fastest growing worldwide sport in the history of mankind.
EliasG
7/6/08 2:48:20AM
You are right, the NBa pulls in billions every year. You do realize that NBA franchises are worth in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS, right? The UFC is NOT worth as much as one NBA franchise. Last year alone the NBA made 3.57 billion dollars. I know you aren't comparing the UFC's earnings to that. They UFC's earnings and operating budgets are miniscule comparitively speaking. Tiny.

The UFC made 223 million in its best year. That's not even a quarter of a billion dollars. And that's not NET revenue, that's gross. THe NBA's operating expenses alone are 293 milion meaning their NET revenues are about 16-20 times what the UFC is. Dude, seriously that's not even kind of close.

Soccer--I only have to look at ONE soccer team in the world--Manchester United and tell you that they earned more last year in NET REVENUE not gross than the UFC did in all their earnings before the UFC's taxes and expenses.

Perspective is all I ask for.
Figsak
7/6/08 12:29:21PM
Yes, but again you're comparing apples to sneakers.

The NBA is a deep set, long running institution. MMA didn't start really taking off and becoming a household name until about 3yrs ago. You can't really compare the 2.

What Im saying is MMA has grown more in the last 3yrs than anything in sports history, and that over the next 5-7, it will be in the same league worldwide as soccer and boxing.

Of course the 3rd world will still prefer boxing and Soccer because they don't have TV or the internet, so they'll be doing what they know, but the civilized world will be producing MMA superstars, and watching them on the TV.

(I hope)
EliasG
7/6/08 6:35:31PM
wow. Civilized?

Well, yes MMA is growing very quickly. But the NBA wasn't a financial juggerknaut until the 80's. Then they grew incredibly. Boxing has supposedly been "dying' since the late 80's. The New York TImes had a big expose on the death of boxign in 1991. It hasn't died and still makes more money than MMA. In totality it's not close. Will MMA becoming an entrenched sports culture that will last for a long time? That remains to be seen. Baseball has little league fields everywehre. Football has peewee leagues, everywhere. Basketball fills up rec leagues everywhere. Even golf makes more than MMA. Accessibility is the issue for a long term sports success. I'm seeing more and more MMA gyms popping up all over. IF and only if that becomes a long term trend then I think MMA will solidify itself in sporst culture. Look at the beginnings of UFC. Who watched? A bunch of karate enthusiasts. I was watching with my brown belt in karate telling my boxing buddy karate was superior. THe people that were involved in different disciplines watched. If smaller leagues and amatuer leagues crop up around the country, that allow thousands of kids to get trained---and not just suburban kids with money---then you'll see the sport grow beyond any one organizations wildest dreams.
Figsak
7/7/08 9:59:21AM
Thats the idea. But before MMA starts hitting the roots like that you need a larger fan base. I went over all that in the other thread so I won't waste space here.

I think the main reason Boxing has been hurting, is the same reason Professional Wrestling was hurting 10yrs ago, PPV. They suddenly realized they could turn out their fans pockets and take them for everything they had to enjoy their beloved sport. They stopped putting worthwile fights/matches on free TV and started putting EVERYthing worth watching on PPV. In the case of boxing, they fled free TV all together to make a home on the expensive movie channels like HBO and Showtime.

I remember as a kid LOVING Wrestling, then one day they just started only having matches between Hulk Hogan and Dave Brown, Or Randy Savage against Steve Smith. Anyone else remember that? They almost went bottom up before they realized HAY, this isn't working. They started putting on a good show on free TV again to build up their PPV events and bam, back in business.

I'm so scared MMA will try to make a quick buck by fleeing to HBO or Showtime and abandoning any chance they have of creating a large casual fan base by showcasinf talent on free TV. I don't mind them making some money on PPV, but throw us a free bone too.
coldindian
7/7/08 10:31:11AM

Posted by The-Don


Sadly thoguh I think kimbo is still 2-3 years away from having a solid ground game...



Of course, but the thing is, he works very hard with Bas. He has improved since the last time we seen him. Alot of people said he hasen't improved on the ground, but thats because James Thompson ACTUALLY came in the fight with a gameplan unlike most of his other fights. Of course Kimbo will be a few years to have a good ground game, but I can't see him giving up on it, he has the heart.
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