Kicks/Knees to grounded opponent opinions

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Kpro
12/26/07 2:32:51AM
For those that dislike, kicks/knees to the head of a grounded opponent, how do you feel about those strikes as long as each one is followed by a non kick/knee to the head of a grounded opponent.

2 in a row can qualify as a warning/point loss/DQ.

I think the only time a fighter gets seriously injured from those strikes is from many repeated strikes of the same type before the referee can step in.

What if you had to throw a punch or elbow after each soccer kick or knee to the head ?

I'm only asking those people who don't like kicks/knees to the head of a grounded opponent.
MMAFightClothes
12/26/07 3:36:10AM
I still don't like it. All it takes is one big kick to a grounded opponent to do the damage. I understand why some people want them to be legal, but I'm not one of them.
Mastodon2
12/26/07 7:31:51AM

Posted by MMAFightClothes

I still don't like it. All it takes is one big kick to a grounded opponent to do the damage. I understand why some people want them to be legal, but I'm not one of them.



And despite all this I've still seen worse cuts and swelling from elbows.


It's just the athletic commisions stopping it simply because they don't like the idea of someone getting kicked in the head, even though ground elbows cause more actual injury. All this talk that kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent are imo a load of toss, we still have no evidence that its anymore dangerous than a standing kick or a standing knee. In a perfect world we would have them, because its a part of fighting and should therefore be allowed, for the most pure MMA experience, but we lost that when Pride went out, so we've just gotta make do with what we've got, and hope that bit by bit, the athletic commissions change their stance.
CantAndleDaRiddum
12/26/07 9:00:26AM

Posted by Mastodon2


Posted by MMAFightClothes

I still don't like it. All it takes is one big kick to a grounded opponent to do the damage. I understand why some people want them to be legal, but I'm not one of them.



And despite all this I've still seen worse cuts and swelling from elbows.


It's just the athletic commisions stopping it simply because they don't like the idea of someone getting kicked in the head, even though ground elbows cause more actual injury. All this talk that kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent are imo a load of toss, we still have no evidence that its anymore dangerous than a standing kick or a standing knee. In a perfect world we would have them, because its a part of fighting and should therefore be allowed, for the most pure MMA experience, but we lost that when Pride went out, so we've just gotta make do with what we've got, and hope that bit by bit, the athletic commissions change their stance.



i like em, seen elbows **** more fights up anyways so think it would be ebtter to have knees and kicks to downed opponent than elbows, but what ya gonna do?
DJDark41
12/26/07 10:03:42AM

Posted by Mastodon2


Posted by MMAFightClothes

I still don't like it. All it takes is one big kick to a grounded opponent to do the damage. I understand why some people want them to be legal, but I'm not one of them.



And despite all this I've still seen worse cuts and swelling from elbows.


It's just the athletic commisions stopping it simply because they don't like the idea of someone getting kicked in the head, even though ground elbows cause more actual injury. All this talk that kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent are imo a load of toss, we still have no evidence that its anymore dangerous than a standing kick or a standing knee. In a perfect world we would have them, because its a part of fighting and should therefore be allowed, for the most pure MMA experience, but we lost that when Pride went out, so we've just gotta make do with what we've got, and hope that bit by bit, the athletic commissions change their stance.




I dunno...I'd much rather get hit by an elbow then a soccer kick to the head, or even a knee to the head for that matter. Knees to the head I am ok with, just as long as they aren't coming down on a guys head and driving his head into the mat. I'm completely opposed to soccer kicks though.
fullerene
12/26/07 10:32:04AM
I'd prefer for them to be allowed, but I understand that they look like streetfighting techniques and it may be tough to get state athletic commissions to allow them. It doesn't take a whole lot of skill to throw them so, while it sometimes detracts from the flow of the fight, it is more of a penalty to mediocre fighters than to highly skilled ones.
905010
12/26/07 2:41:22PM
Soccer kicks stomps and nee's to a downed opponet make a fight more exciting. The only way they could be dangerous is when they are used while a fighter is pressed against the cage, so they should make a rule u can't do it when the are up against the fence. just think of all the time when a guy was laying on his back and people tried to stomp them , it was awsome, same with soccer kicks so they should bring em in the UFC.
loonytnt
12/26/07 4:31:05PM
i think they got it right, knees and kicks to a downed opponent can be bad, there are no deaths in mma because on rules like this
Boo_Radley21
12/26/07 4:43:07PM
I've never been a fan of knees and kicks to a downed opponent. I don't know why, but I just find it unsettling to watch a guy get his face stomped on while he's laying on his back, or kicked in the face while he's trying to get up. I'd much rather see elbows than stomps and kicks. And I'm not saying either is less dangerous. Obviously both are dangerous as is anything in a fight. Even a punch can **** a guy up if it really connects. So it's nothing about the damage caused, I just don't like watching all the kicks and knees on the ground.
cmill21
12/26/07 5:13:24PM
IMO soccer kicks make it easier for stand up guys to thrive, considering if your a wrestler your going to shoot and all of that less if you know that if you miss or he gets away your getting a kick to the teeth. I personally would like to see, elbows to the body(none to the head), stomps, but no soccer kicks. I don't like elbows because I don't like fights ending by cut(elbows are the culprit for many), but I don't really like soccer kicks, but I do love the chute boxe stomps.
hippysmacker
12/26/07 7:18:10PM
I'm for elbows and knees on the ground . Against soccer kicks.
NatedawgThaM
12/26/07 11:18:41PM
This is a very difficult question. But I understand the commissions and everything. But everyones split and I know why.

If your a wrestler. Then you want knees to the head. Because wrestling is all about the transitions and wrestlers love scarf and side mount. The perfect position to deliver damger. BUT, if your a boxer or kick boxer. Your against this because if you get took to the ground since you love the stand up. Your not wanting to get hammered in the head by these things.

But like Mastadon said which was a very brilliant point. It's a form of striking your opponent and it should be legal.

Soccer Kicks/Foot stomps to head, F*ck that. That is a form of combat and striking but that could easily kill somebody. And MMA wants nothing to do with death since the sport's safety is questioned left and right.

So it all depends on who your ask. But I think they should allow knees on the ground and elbows. But just forget the foot stomps to the face and the soccer kicks. That's too barbaric.

ncordless
12/27/07 1:34:28AM
Knees and kicks to the head of a downed opponent are really two very different tools in mma.

Knees to the head of a downed opponent typically occur as a defense to a squared up shot, an offense in a north/south gound position, or less frequently, a GnP techinque from an advanced top position. Knees are really very effective defense against the wrestler's takedown. In my opinion, they definitely have their place in mma and the sport suffers when they are not allowed. North/South without them is a very boring position. I love wrestling, but I am getting sick of seeing fighters with nothing except a good double leg and sub defense win fights because they don't have to worry about getting stuffed with a series of knees.

We really haven't seen it that much yet, but what's to stop a fighter from taking a knee every time he gets caught up in a Thai clinch?

Now on to kicks. Lets divide up the types we normally see. Soccer kicks and head stomps. Soccer kicks are often seen as a devastating finish to an already damaged fighter. Cro Cop v. Waterman is a prime example. Cro Cop finished the fight with soccer kick to Waterman, who was basically crawling for a takedown. My argument for soccer kicks is this: Why should Cro Cop or any other fighter be forced to the ground just because the other fighter is there? A fighter should not be forced to engage a grounded opponent on the ground. Also, how much more dangerous was that Waterman soccer kick than Cro Cop's LHK on Igor? Herring v. Big Nog 3 might have ended differently if Heath had another choice besides either engaging the greatest heavyweight BJJ fighter on the ground or letting Nog catch his wits.

Also, without soccer kicks how long is it until we start seeing alot more BJJ-style butt-scooting going on in mma?

Finally, we get to head stomps. Head stomps usually occur when one fighter is standing and the other is on his back. The same argument can be made here as was made with soccer kicks. Why should a fighter have to enter into another fighter's guard to advance the action? Another point to be made is that while soccer kicks often happen to fighters not intelligently defending themselves, head stomps are more often used against fighters who are intelligently defending themselves by pulling guard.

My argument against head stomps is this: the postioning in which head stomps happen make them uniquely dangerous. This danger isn't really applicable to successfully performed head stomp. You are not going to squash someones head with a barefoot head stomp a la American History X. The real danger lies when a head stomp misses and ends up being a throat stomp. An errant head stomp could easily crush a fighter's larynx. A crushed larynx followed by a quick death by suffocation on live TV would end mma, and is too dangerous to the fighters to allow.

One question you may ask: How could the rules be changed to allow for soccer kicks but not head stomps? The answer is allow a leg strike with forward momentum but not with backward momentum. Sure it means the ruling out of spinning soccer kicks, but how many of those have you seen? This would only effect Cung Le
905010
12/27/07 9:38:53AM
When people make the argument that soccer kicks are not skilled strikesm are wrong.In shogun's traing video he shows how he sets them up and every thing. Stomps take skill to master too, Chute Boxe is a good exapmle of that all of there guys know how to use stomps effectivly and how to set them up. And like ncordless siad when fighters are in butt scoop postiotion the guy standing up can only kick them in the legs or go down with them. If they are on there back it's more than likely there fault , and all you can do to punish them is kick hem in the legs or go down right were they want you.