Kickboxing, Muay Thai and Boxing

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » MMA Training » Kickboxing, Muay Thai and Boxing
Lethal
7/19/07 8:09:59PM
I don't know very much about striking in general. What is the difference between the hand combinations of traditional muay thai, kickboxing and boxing? i know that TMT uses a lot of elbows, but omitting the elbows, whats the diffence?
bayonetxwork
7/19/07 8:57:45PM

Posted by Lethal

I don't know very much about striking in general. What is the difference between the hand combinations of traditional muay thai, kickboxing and boxing? i know that TMT uses a lot of elbows, but omitting the elbows, whats the diffence?



Well boxing and kickboxing have obvious differences, so I'm not gonna get into that. But the main difference between traditional or american style kickboxing and muay thai, is thai focuses a whole lot more on kicks than regular kickboxing. actually, in thai boxing your punches are your least effective strike. you'll also see a lot more jab style kicks(a teep), and also shin kicks to the legs. the last obvious difference is the thai clinch which is a huge part of the sport, as well as mma today.
danny81
7/19/07 9:59:24PM
i think he was asking if there was a difference in punching between the 3. the answer is the kickboxers also use the spinning back fist and regular back fist. im not sure about muy thai. although no doubt about it is that boxing will teach you to be the best puncher. alot of kickboxing gyms dont teach very good punching. althought thats not all of them but alot of them
tommyprairie
7/19/07 10:11:37PM
I was actually wondering about the differences too. Has anyone trained in all 3?
fullerene
7/20/07 8:26:27AM
I've trained a little bit in all three but don't consider this a definitive answer. I'll address punching only, not the fact that elbows, knees and kicks are obvoiusly allowed in some but not all: Here are some differences:
* Your guard is typically held further from your body in MT and kickboxing (to block potential kicks as well). This means there are more arm punches (extended from the elbow rather than the shoulder) in kickboxing/MT than in boxing
* Hooks to the body are more common in boxing than in kickboxing/MT. Particularly in Muay Thai there are more effective close-range techniques and knees and round kicks to the body do damage much quicker than punches with gloves.
* Similar to points above with uppercuts
* You are lighter on your feet (more on your toes) at all times in kickboxing/MT since you may want to lift your leg to either check or deliver a kick at any time. Most times the leverage of a boxer's punches will be greater as a result (and the above-mentioned guard position)
* The superman punch and the spinning backfist are used in kickboxing/MT and not in boxing (backfists are illegal).
* In MT vs. kickboxing and boxing the proper position for the chin is not always facing downward. Keeping the neck straighter, at least in close does make your opponent's punches more effective but it is outweighed by the ease in which a downturned head can be plumed and controlled for knees.
* The jab is more important and effective in boxing than in kickboxing/MT because in boxing it has more range than any technique while kicks, if allowed, cover even greater distance

I'm sure there are some more someone else can come up with





(I'm assuming you mean K-1 style kickboxing when you are referencing kickboxing, not above-the waist "long pants" kickboxing)
Mastodon2
7/20/07 8:37:57AM

Posted by fullerene

* Your guard is typically held further from your body in MT and kickboxing (to block potential kicks as well). This means there are more arm punches (extended from the elbow rather than the shoulder) in kickboxing/MT than in boxing





While I do disagree with some of your other points (mainly about hooks to the body and uppercuts, which can be devastating if you side step a kick and pop in low, and explode upwards with 2 uppercuts to your opponents body (mag Krit), you can knock the wind out of your opponent so easily) but I thought the point above is the one I really should query, not because Im saying your guard is wrong, but the way Ive been taught to do it, and the way I see most of the Thai's doing (apart from Buakaw, though even he does it sometimes) is too keep the hand really high, keeping the fists about temple height, to gaurd the head. The body is covered by the knees; as Im sure you know, you can defend up to your arm pit with a knee, which is what we use to block kicks and incoming body shots, while keeping the head covered at all times.

You maintain the Kum Chung (guard position, hands held high) while using the Maw Jahng (horse trotting, alternating lifting knees) to keep your rhythm for fighting.

That said, Im exclusively a Nak Muay (thai boxer) so Im only coming at this from a MT perspective. Furthermore, there is no right way or wrong way do things, so please dont be offended
fullerene
7/20/07 4:28:37PM

Posted by Mastodon2


Posted by fullerene

* Your guard is typically held further from your body in MT and kickboxing (to block potential kicks as well). This means there are more arm punches (extended from the elbow rather than the shoulder) in kickboxing/MT than in boxing





While I do disagree with some of your other points (mainly about hooks to the body and uppercuts, which can be devastating if you side step a kick and pop in low, and explode upwards with 2 uppercuts to your opponents body (mag Krit), you can knock the wind out of your opponent so easily) but I thought the point above is the one I really should query, not because Im saying your guard is wrong, but the way Ive been taught to do it, and the way I see most of the Thai's doing (apart from Buakaw, though even he does it sometimes) is too keep the hand really high, keeping the fists about temple height, to gaurd the head. The body is covered by the knees; as Im sure you know, you can defend up to your arm pit with a knee, which is what we use to block kicks and incoming body shots, while keeping the head covered at all times.

You maintain the Kum Chung (guard position, hands held high) while using the Maw Jahng (horse trotting, alternating lifting knees) to keep your rhythm for fighting.

That said, Im exclusively a Nak Muay (thai boxer) so Im only coming at this from a MT perspective. Furthermore, there is no right way or wrong way do things, so please dont be offended



To your first point I didn't say that hooks and uppercuts weren't effective, but that you would see them used less in kicboxing than in boxing and I'll stand by that assessment. Many boxers end every combo with a left hook to the body. The nature of kickboxing doesn't mean that technique is ineffective (it is effective), but it means there are more alternatives (round kicks and knees) to attack the body with.

As for the guard, the way you are describing the MT guard is what I was trying to describe as well (I think ), Perhaps my wording wasn't matching the pseudo-shadowboxing I was doing in my computer chair as I typed, lol. By "further from your body" I didn't mean high or low--you're right that the typical MT guard is held very high--I'm talking about the distance between your forearms and your forehead. A boxer will often pin his gloves/forerarms directly against the head or very close to it. A MT fighter will typically hold them out about 6 inches from the head, at least that's been my experience. Does that make more sense?
Mastodon2
7/20/07 6:45:55PM
Yeah it does, props for knowing your Thai boxing
Lethal
7/21/07 2:10:29PM
Very Insightful, thanks
tommyprairie
7/21/07 4:07:29PM
Very informative thread. Answered a few questions I had, but never asked. Much Props
danny81
7/21/07 6:14:31PM
what is the superman punch? isnt that used in muy thai as opposed to kickboxing
Mastodon2
7/22/07 9:10:06AM
The superman punch is a jumping jab, you jump forward into your opponent and hit them with a jab. Its a bit of a fancy punch, not really all that useful, if you try it more than once in a fight your opponent will catch on and just clock you.
danny81
7/22/07 3:09:11PM
doesnt savant young do it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_punch
this says something totally different
Mastodon2
7/22/07 5:52:19PM
Sorry, I was just trying to explain it as best I could. I suppose you could feint a kick and then do it. All the times Ive seen it done it has just been a jump into the punch so that the opponent cant parry easily, but like every technique, there are limitless ways to apply it
bayonetxwork
7/22/07 5:52:24PM

Posted by Mastodon2

The superman punch is a jumping jab, you jump forward into your opponent and hit them with a jab. Its a bit of a fancy punch, not really all that useful, if you try it more than once in a fight your opponent will catch on and just clock you.



Useful if you tie it in with a low kick, or even better a mid kick. They drop their hands, you use your leg as momentum to take an open shot on them. But you're right, if you telegraph it, or use it multiple times, they're gonna unload a cross to your head, and you'll probably be laying on your back wondering what happened.
danny81
7/22/07 8:59:26PM
hasent black superman done it?
johny_rotten
7/22/07 9:31:32PM
The main thing that has stood out to me is how different your stance is. In boxing and in a lot of kick boxing the stance has your feet on almost a straight line where in MT(and in MMA) you have your feet more squared up. After that MT and boxing are very similar. Huge emphasis on striking from your hips. I am lucky to train under a guy that has been doing all 3 for 20 years.
Lethal
7/23/07 3:03:10AM

Posted by johny_rotten

The main thing that has stood out to me is how different your stance is. In boxing and in a lot of kick boxing the stance has your feet on almost a straight line where in MT(and in MMA) you have your feet more squared up. After that MT and boxing are very similar. Huge emphasis on striking from your hips. I am lucky to train under a guy that has been doing all 3 for 20 years.



I completely forgot to consider MMA. I notice that the stances for all three have to be modified for grappling...Just adds more to mix
skinnyb
8/30/07 9:28:10PM
good topic
jgtribbett
9/2/07 2:01:49PM
i'm planning on boxing for the next two years and still grappling and oding the occasional wrestling tournament...
after the two years of boxing and i move back to IN... i'm gonna doing kickboxing..
anyone think that, that isnt a good idea.. cause i'm not a striker
Related Topics