kendall grove exposed

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nickcuc547
8/26/07 10:02:24AM
i think an above average patrick cote exposed grove as the most overrated fighter in ufc. i know grove was winning the fight at the time and got hit with a perfect punch but if you want to be a top contender, patrick cote is not the guy to lose to. i expect the ufc to throw grove three more chris price's to build him up, and expect cote to get a big name in his next fight.
AchillesHeel
8/26/07 10:25:34AM
So... Grove was winning, and then he got hit with a "perfect" punch, and he was somehow "exposed"..? And who overrates him? He's not currently listed in the MMA Playground Top 10, not even as an "honorable mention."

Ydoc
8/26/07 10:39:51AM
I think Grove's chin will always be his problem, and it doesn't help that he is in a mainly striking division. First Riggs now Cote... I'm gonna have to think harder about the type of guys he can beat in the future before picking him. I always hate when something a fighter can't control ends up costing him.
MMA
8/26/07 10:50:06AM
Cote fought a smart fight by utilizing the clinch. We all know that Grove does not use his reach to his advantage and that he had a suspect chin. I know that Cote was trying to ground Grove in their fight but got off a shot that absolutely rocked him.

I know Cote has heavy hands, but damn, that rocked Kendall bad. It didn't look like it had a lot of power because it came at an odd angle but it nailed him bad.
dstlvb
8/26/07 10:50:17AM
He may have a suspect chin, but in that fight last night Cote looked like he caught him right below and behind the ear. That was the shot that did it for Cote. Kendall went down and tried to scramble but a fighter like Cote was able to capitalize.
Rush
8/26/07 10:57:28AM
Let me say this. I was cheering for Cote, but picked Kendall to win by decision. cote fought a smart fight and am happy for him.Whether his big punch was lucky or not, he still fought a good fight.
AchillesHeel
8/26/07 11:06:46AM

Posted by dstlvb

[...]in that fight last night Cote looked like he caught him right below and behind the ear.


Exactly. It didn't have anything to do with Grove's chin (and there's nothing to suggest that it's "suspect" anyway - I'm not sure where that idea came from). Go find someone who's had some fight training and ask them to punch you in the ear, really hard. Then come back and give us a report.

What was suspect was Grove's decision to stand and trade with Cote. Cote has some grappling skills - he's an MMA fighter, after all - but Grove clearly has the edge on the mat. Or, at least, he should have had the edge. For some reason, he decided to hang out inside Cote's strike zone and let it rip. Going into that fight, everybody in the world knew that Cote had the heavier hands. I think Kendall's ego got in the way of his brain, is all.

I agree that Cote is a good fighter. This matchup was a "coin toss" for me, before I saw Grove trying to box it out. Unfortunately, it was too late to change my pick by then.
Tons33
8/26/07 11:14:59AM
While sitting and watching this fight i was screaming at the TV for Grove to take it to the mat. I felt that knockout punch coming from Cote. Right before it happened i said to myself Grove better get this to the ground or he is getting knocked out. Bad decision making by Grove ultimately lead to his defeat. Cote is a decent fighter, but a guy a up and coming stud should be able to beat.
nubby
8/26/07 12:54:46PM
I have to admit I though Kendall would walk through Cote, but in the back of my head I was worried about Cote's heavy hands. Good job Cote... damn that sucks for Kendall.
Chris_Keppel
8/26/07 12:58:59PM
I honestly, chose Cote at first to beat Grove via TKO. BUT, since Grove was trainin' out there in Big Bear, I thought Kendall might of handled him. You have to remember, Cote was a guy who almost knocked out Tito Ortiz. Those little canadian fuckers can get fiesty. lol
MMA
8/26/07 1:02:15PM

Posted by AchillesHeel
Exactly. It didn't have anything to do with Grove's chin (and there's nothing to suggest that it's "suspect" anyway - I'm not sure where that idea came from). Go find someone who's had some fight training and ask them to punch you in the ear, really hard. Then come back and give us a report.

What was suspect was Grove's decision to stand and trade with Cote. Cote has some grappling skills - he's an MMA fighter, after all - but Grove clearly has the edge on the mat. Or, at least, he should have had the edge. For some reason, he decided to hang out inside Cote's strike zone and let it rip. Going into that fight, everybody in the world knew that Cote had the heavier hands. I think Kendall's ego got in the way of his brain, is all.

I agree that Cote is a good fighter. This matchup was a "coin toss" for me, before I saw Grove trying to box it out. Unfortunately, it was too late to change my pick by then.


It's because Joe Riggs and Hector Ramirez, both heavy handed fighters, were able to KO Kendall pretty early in their fights.
nickcuc547
8/26/07 2:10:48PM
i just think kendall was getting too much hype, improved or not the man has a loss to savant young on his record, who is a mediocre ifl fighter. i picked kendall but i was happy to see cote knock him out.
BerndRealBad
8/26/07 3:23:13PM
I agree that he is very overrated. I couldn't believe that when I picked Cote by TKO in the 2nd, and saw that only 22% agreed Cote was going to win. Like someone else said, I think they will give him the Huerta treatment and feed him 2 or 3 fights in a row. Either that or he finally gets the Rory Singer matchup he's been looking forward to.
Sam_Rothstein
8/26/07 6:31:19PM
yeah kendall did get rocked pretty bad, i had him winning by submission because of how easily cote was submitted by travis lutter but those submission skills dont do anything when you try to stand with a tough kickboxer of cotes level

you'd figure with how easy kendall was knocked out in his earliar fights (ramirez, riggs) he would known better
owen1
8/26/07 7:38:57PM
Kendall is a good fighter he just got caught..it happens..he will be back
Trapt1nw0nder
8/26/07 8:42:54PM
He got caught behind the ear just like GSP did...he will be back!

the whole night was great for me besides that fight!
hippysmacker
8/26/07 8:53:10PM
I guess "chin" to me means ability to take a punch and recover quickly. i think Kendall is lacking in this department, but that doesn't mean he can't be top fighter someday. I think Cro-cop suffers from this as well, but is still one of the best.
Jackelope
8/26/07 9:15:02PM
Right behind the ear is the mastoid process. A clean shot to it can drop anybody.

I'm no big time experienced fighter, but the only time I've ever been truly knocked out clean was by a hit to the mastoid process while helping a guy train for his 2nd degree black. He hit me hard, but not as hard as he could. It was still enough to put my lights out for a good 3 or 4 seconds, though. I felt the hit, and next thing I knew I was looking up at the roof of the school I was training at.

I would have liked to watch Cote work from inside Grove's guard. Cote's really explosive from that position. I think Grove's length would have allowed him to neutralize Cote, but I don't think he would have been totally out of hot water on his back. Big time props for Cote not only for earning me some $$$ but by utilizing his stand up skills properly.
Svartorm
8/26/07 10:32:15PM
Actually, you can die from getting hit in the mastoid if you have a basal fracture from it. It'll bleed into your brain and kill you.

If anyone remembers Tank Abbott vs. Steve Nelmark, Nelmark took a punch to the mastoid and thats why he fell over on himself like that.

As for the fight, Grove got caught. The part of the "suspect chin" I do buy into is the fact he doesn't seem to get rocked, but knocked out cold when he gets hit hard. With the reach he should be able to avoid getting hit with more training, but it wasn't his night. I hope to see him back though.
Pitbull09
8/27/07 12:19:14AM
I dont think Kendel got exposed as a bad fighter but Cote finally got exposed for his potential.

Kendel will be good eventually, he just need more training and he dedicated enough to get that training.
Bountytaker
8/27/07 12:53:51AM

Posted by nickcuc547

i think an above average patrick cote exposed grove as the most overrated fighter in ufc. i know grove was winning the fight at the time and got hit with a perfect punch but if you want to be a top contender, patrick cote is not the guy to lose to. i expect the ufc to throw grove three more chris price's to build him up, and expect cote to get a big name in his next fight.



Some points:

-Hard to overrate a guy who was in the 4th fight of the PPV undercard. Not exactly "number one contender" territory in the UFC.

- He got caught. It happens to everyone...even the greats. When Gonzaga hit CroCop with a "perfect" kick to the head, did it expose CroCop as a bad fighter, or suggest Gonzaga was better than we expected? If you say the former...then there may be no point discussing.

- The division is getting better by the day. It's starting to have parity at a very high level. You're going to see very little "push-overs" for the top guys to fight.

- Not only did Cote' recently make the TUF 4 finale ( winning would have given him a title shot), after training with current champ Serra and pnp leaderboard member GSP, but he once went the distance with Tito Ortiz....that's a pretty good resume', no.

Honestly, your comment is a bit of an insult to both fighters. Cote' is no pushover, despite what the odds suggested, and "getting caught" often has little to do with how others have rated your skills (ask any of the greats).

Maybe the best way to look at it is this: REMATCH!!!!!!!!
Mastodon2
8/27/07 8:42:45AM
Why are people talking about Kendall's "Chin"?

It wasnt a really powerful punch, but he took it right behind the ear. That's where the body's balance centres are, even a light hit there and you will lose all co-ordination, just like Kendall did. He went totally spaghetti legged and just went down like a sack of spuds. That will happen to anyone. Except maybe Mark Hunt!

However, Kendall wasn't looking his best in that fight. He has a tremendous advantage over other middleweights, but he just doesn't seem to use it. He will probably come back a better fighter though, if he goes away and watches the tapes of how fought the other night, he will probably come back with better striking, and some knowledge of the Muay Thai clinch.

I really wasn't expecting Grove to finish though, I was honestly shocked when he took Grove out!
Naturaldisaster
8/27/07 12:02:47PM
I've said from the beggining that kendall is over rated. and it showed that against talented fighters Kendall isn't the force everyone thought he was
nubby
8/27/07 12:29:13PM

Posted by Naturaldisaster

I've said from the beggining that kendall is over rated. and it showed that against talented fighters Kendall isn't the force everyone thought he was



Over rated? I don't think anyone called him the next great thing. Most people see him as a young up and commer so I don't know what you are trying to say here.
pv3Hpv3p
8/27/07 2:03:54PM
Why does no one believe in Patrick Cote? He lost a decision toan in his prime Tito on short notice up at 205lb, and great sluggfest with Leben, and a couple other not so lucky fights in the octagon... The guy's a beast

If anything, he is grossly underrated and Kendall is right on par where most people think he is (or at least where I thought he was)...

Why the hell would Grove stand with Patrick Cote? The guys got some steam behind those hands, and he can take a helluva shot too... And if anything has shown a lack of ground game or at least good ground def
Jackelope
8/27/07 2:05:57PM
I believe in Cote's ability, unfortunately I hadn't seen him able to finish a fight yet. The guy has explosiveness and KO power, and it's weird to see someone who has that struggle to finish a fight like Cote has. I think that's why people were so on the fence about him.
johny_rotten
8/27/07 4:53:51PM
I think this thread is crazy. I honestly don't think this fight told any story other than Cote won at this event. Kendall took a very hard shot to the back of the head/ear. It was a 1 in 1000 type of shot by Cote to a place that destroys your equilibrium, and causes concussions. That is why you are not allowed to strike an opponent to the back of the head on the ground(It is a gray area standing up.)

This fight doesn't mean Groove isn't a top level fighter in at 185 in the UFC. It could prove he isn't ready for a striker like Anderson Silva, but everyone including Kendall already knew that. I think it will be good for Groove overall. Deffinitly for all the cliches we have heard about losses in the past, but maninly because it will stall his climb a bit. As we just saw with GG getting to the top of the heap to fast can hurt your career just as much as it can help it.

As far as Cote this fights answers nothing for me. We all knew he had above average stand up(on the UFC stage) and a very good chin. We also know that his ground skills are below average(again on the UFC stage) as he showed against Tito, Lutter, and Doerkson. That didn't change with his victory over Kendall.
MoJoy
8/27/07 10:54:21PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by dstlvb

[...]in that fight last night Cote looked like he caught him right below and behind the ear.


Exactly. It didn't have anything to do with Grove's chin (and there's nothing to suggest that it's "suspect" anyway - I'm not sure where that idea came from). Go find someone who's had some fight training and ask them to punch you in the ear, really hard. Then come back and give us a report.

What was suspect was Grove's decision to stand and trade with Cote. Cote has some grappling skills - he's an MMA fighter, after all - but Grove clearly has the edge on the mat. Or, at least, he should have had the edge. For some reason, he decided to hang out inside Cote's strike zone and let it rip. Going into that fight, everybody in the world knew that Cote had the heavier hands. I think Kendall's ego got in the way of his brain, is all.

I agree that Cote is a good fighter. This matchup was a "coin toss" for me, before I saw Grove trying to box it out. Unfortunately, it was too late to change my pick by then.



I feel this way. Kendall is a better fightgr, but did not fight his fight. He was winning the round, and striking better than Cote, but power is power. I still think he can work on this, and get in the top 10, and fight for a title. Let it unfold.
slapshot
8/28/07 6:01:04AM

Posted by Naturaldisaster

I've said from the beggining that kendall is over rated. and it showed that against talented fighters Kendall isn't the force everyone thought he was


Agree 100% and if you look at his record its not the first time he got KO'd. I never felt he had the skills people think he dose. Grove is a good fighter but still was over rated and Im still a bit pissy the ref missed him tap to herman.
jgtribbett
8/28/07 6:39:12AM
i think it takes a good loss to imporve. (same thing i've been saying about fitch)
i think grove will bounce back. maybe not shoot straight to the top but improve his game profoundly in the relative future.
and.. "perfect punch"? hahaha. no such thing. but when you get hit, you get hit
everyone has a gameplan till they get hit
-- muhammid ali
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