Karo's next move?

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MFOTHER
4/9/08 11:59:56AM
so with the "controversial" loss, is Karo's title dream done?
joe silva apparently put alves in line after fitch.
how far will the loss make karo fall in the rankings, or in his title shot?
alot of people think he will abandon the UFC and try for gold in a smaller league.
ive always liked karo and hopes he gets back on track.
AchillesHeel
4/9/08 12:16:45PM
I don't think Parisyan would have anything to gain from leaving the UFC, in terms of competition. The only guys outside the UFC who might be in his league are Carlos Condit and Jake Shields (both of whom I would like to see in the UFC).

As for his next move, I think he just needs to keep on keepin' on, and look to earn a title shot in 8-12 months. The loss to Alves wasn't the result of some significant flaw in Karo's game, it was just a loss. Sh*t happens.

I think he would match up well against the winner of Koscheck-Lytle or the loser of Serra-St. Pierre. Karo already has UD wins over Lytle and Serra, so those might be less interesting for him, although Serra is certainly a different fighter than he was a few years ago. I wouldn't mind seeing Karo against Josh Koscheck or Marcus Davis, or in a rematch with Diego Sanchez, and he never did get that shot at Matt Hughes that he'd earned a while back.

I can see how Parisyan would be terribly frustrated with the loss to Alves, after failing to get a title shot for so long, but I honestly don't think that it sets him back too far.
MFOTHER
4/9/08 12:27:06PM
good post, i agree for the most part. im not pretending to know karo, but i think the lack of competition might be enticing , as he could dominate alot of opponetns, who doesnt like doing that.
but i hope, and think you are right, he will continue to do what he does. he was close to a TS years ago, and came pretty close again recently, he's still young and will get there eventually
Twenty20Dollars
4/9/08 1:13:30PM
Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.
chubbud22
4/9/08 1:23:41PM
I think he needs to stop hanging out with Reggie Warren jr. and train more
pv3Hpv3p
4/9/08 1:25:14PM
UFC or not, I've always wanted to see him fight Mach Sakurai
CantAndleDaRiddum
4/9/08 1:46:26PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

UFC or not, I've always wanted to see him fight Mach Sakurai




oOoOoO that sounds liek a fun matchup......but i can think of about 15 guys right now i'd like to see sakurai fight lol
AchillesHeel
4/9/08 1:47:54PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...
gartface
4/9/08 1:58:17PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...



He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.

And the thought of his title hopes being dashed...the guy is 25 years old.
MartinKillMcGill
4/9/08 2:15:06PM
Karo is incrediably experienced for his age and should be able to cope with this loss. I would love to see a rematch with Sanchez our even matt hughes( If he still wants to fight)
JBatch
4/9/08 2:39:03PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...



He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.

And the thought of his title hopes being dashed...the guy is 25 years old.



Gartface you just love Karo. I remember us having a war of words before his past fight with Alves. I was calling Karo a gatekeeper and you were pissed saying the same thing he is 25.

Karo and my favourite fighter Chris Leben are in the same boat man. Karo is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 WW and Leben is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 MW. These two fighters really need to either step up thier respective game or move to another org and become a champ if it is the gold they are after. Both fighters give pretty decent fights and it would suck to lose them but it could happen.

Next for Karo I see a fight vs. Paul Kelly or if he wants a tough fight give him his kryptonite again in the form of Marcus Davis. Karo has trouble with good strikers.
grappler0000
4/9/08 3:00:42PM

Posted by JBatch


Posted by gartface


Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...



He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.

And the thought of his title hopes being dashed...the guy is 25 years old.



Gartface you just love Karo. I remember us having a war of words before his past fight with Alves. I was calling Karo a gatekeeper and you were pissed saying the same thing he is 25.

Karo and my favourite fighter Chris Leben are in the same boat man. Karo is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 WW and Leben is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 MW. These two fighters really need to either step up thier respective game or move to another org and become a champ if it is the gold they are after. Both fighters give pretty decent fights and it would suck to lose them but it could happen.

Next for Karo I see a fight vs. Paul Kelly or if he wants a tough fight give him his kryptonite again in the form of Marcus Davis. Karo has trouble with good strikers.



Karo and Leben are far from being in the same boat. Karo was a contender, has wins over several notable fighters, and has a win over the current champ...Leben is far from being a contender, with most of his wins over mediocre talent . It's ridiculous to even compare the two.
JBatch
4/9/08 3:16:46PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by JBatch


Posted by gartface


Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...



He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.

And the thought of his title hopes being dashed...the guy is 25 years old.



Gartface you just love Karo. I remember us having a war of words before his past fight with Alves. I was calling Karo a gatekeeper and you were pissed saying the same thing he is 25.

Karo and my favourite fighter Chris Leben are in the same boat man. Karo is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 WW and Leben is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 MW. These two fighters really need to either step up thier respective game or move to another org and become a champ if it is the gold they are after. Both fighters give pretty decent fights and it would suck to lose them but it could happen.

Next for Karo I see a fight vs. Paul Kelly or if he wants a tough fight give him his kryptonite again in the form of Marcus Davis. Karo has trouble with good strikers.



Karo and Leben are far from being in the same boat. Karo was a contender, has wins over several notable fighters, and has a win over the current champ...Leben is far from being a contender, with most of his wins over mediocre talent . It's ridiculous to even compare the two.




Lets take a look at the two fighters than shall we.

Karo 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Nick Diaz and Matt Serra. Both decisions. Notable loss to GSP. Longest fight win streak 4 fights against mediocre competition.

Leben 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Pat Cote and Jorge Santiago. decision and KO. Notable loss to Anderson Silva. Longest win streak 5 fights angainst mediocre competition.

Had Leben beat Anderson he may have got a title shot just like had Karo beat Alves he could have been up for a shot so tell me how they are so different again.

Edit- Just because thier is more talent in the WW division doesn't mean you can discount someones progress in another division.
AchillesHeel
4/9/08 3:21:12PM

Posted by gartface

He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.


I was being facetious. I don't know why anyone thinks Parisyan doesn't take training seriously, or that he's out of shape, other than the fact that he doesn't look like a "Men's Fitness" cover model. But surely no one here bases their evaluation of a fighter's skills on his (or her) physique...

Parisyan has gone 15 minutes in the UFC 9 times, and is 7-2 in those fights. The two losses were to Diego Sanchez and Georges St. Pierre, who aren't exactly renowned for boring fights.
Ordep
4/9/08 3:45:37PM
I think his next move should be to become a better sportsman.
Jackelope
4/9/08 3:52:36PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

I was being facetious. I don't know why anyone thinks Parisyan doesn't take training seriously, or that he's out of shape, other than the fact that he doesn't look like a "Men's Fitness" cover model. But surely no one here bases their evaluation of a fighter's skills on his (or her) physique...





Parisyan's cardio has never lacked. He may not look ripped, but many opponents have admitted he's very deceptively strong. I'm not sure if he could shed weight to get down to 155, but I'm also not sure that it would matter even if he could.

This is going to piss off some Judo players out there, but I'll say it- I just don't think Judo as your heavy favorite number one skillset is enough to be a top guy. There's plenty of top Judo guys out there, but how many have reached the very top of their respective weight classes and stayed there? Fedor obviously being the notable exception, but IMO that's because he's really worked on his fight finishing ability through GnP and submissions. I know Judo trains submissions, but they don't seem to be as good at finishing fights as BJJ guys or dudes with heavy hands. I just think Karo would do himself a big favor if he developed a deadly submission game or some heavy hands. I get the feeling for Karo developing a better submission game would suit his style. He's already got some of the best throws in the game for putting people on their back. Now if he could just capitalize with some slick transitions and submissions.
Pookie
4/9/08 4:16:16PM
I dont think he doesnt have the talent to beat a "top 5 ww", i think thats hes just in a terrible division stylistically for himself. His weakness is when you put him on his back, hes kind of stuck. And most of this division's whole gameplan is to just put you on your back.
Like someone else mentioned, if he could add a good submission game he would do alot better.
gartface
4/9/08 4:18:46PM
Lets take a look at the two fighters than shall we.

Karo 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Nick Diaz and Matt Serra. Both decisions. Notable loss to GSP. Longest fight win streak 4 fights against mediocre competition.

Leben 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Pat Cote and Jorge Santiago. decision and KO. Notable loss to Anderson Silva. Longest win streak 5 fights angainst mediocre competition.

Had Leben beat Anderson he may have got a title shot just like had Karo beat Alves he could have been up for a shot so tell me how they are so different again.

Edit- Just because thier is more talent in the WW division doesn't mean you can discount someones progress in another division.


He also holds victories over Drew Fickett (Who is one of the most underrated fighters in the world)
Nick Thompson by strikes(The same Nick Thompson who hasn't lost in 11 fights since fighting Karo)
Ryo Chonan (Who at a higher weight beat the best P4P fighter in the world. He should have been stronger at a smaller weight, but Karo still tossed him around.)

We can play the who fought who game all night, but the fact of the matter is that Chris Leben is one dimensional in a division dominated by some of the most well rounded fighters in the world. (I.E. Anderson, Henderson.) Karo has shown he has improved his defense in the past year or so, and has a good clinch/ground game.
coldchillin
4/9/08 4:47:11PM
if Diego is able to beat Fioravanti, then it would be the perfect time for the rematch between him and Parisyan. I think it would be another war... it's got to happen and the timing seems perfect right now.
grappler0000
4/9/08 4:57:47PM

Posted by JBatch

Lets take a look at the two fighters than shall we.

Karo 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Nick Diaz and Matt Serra. Both decisions. Notable loss to GSP. Longest fight win streak 4 fights against mediocre competition.

Leben 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Pat Cote and Jorge Santiago. decision and KO. Notable loss to Anderson Silva. Longest win streak 5 fights angainst mediocre competition.

Had Leben beat Anderson he may have got a title shot just like had Karo beat Alves he could have been up for a shot so tell me how they are so different again.

Edit- Just because thier is more talent in the WW division doesn't mean you can discount someones progress in another division.



Losses:

Karo:
Thiago Alves
Diego Sanchez
Georges St. Pierre - former WW champ
Sean Sherk - former LW champ

Leben:
Kalib Starnes
Jason McDonald
Anderson Silva - MW champ
Joe Doerksen


The only top 10 competition that Leben has fought to date was able to dispose of him in under a minute. All of Karo's losses come from quality opponents. Alves was the first person to ever finish Karo in the UFC...and he was holding his own with Alves, prior to getting hit with the knee.


Wins (notable):

Karo:
Ryo Chonan (W's over A Silva, Mach Sakurai)
Drew Fickett (W's over Koscheck, Florian)
Matt Serra (WW champ)
Chris Lytle (W over Misaki)
Nick Diaz (W's over Lawler, Gomi)

Leben:
Terry Martin (W's over Rivera, Salaverry) - (is 2-4 in UFC)
Jorge Rivera (W's over Loiseau, Lutter)
Edwin Dewees (W's over S. Ritch, Fickett) - (has never won in UFC)
Patrick Cote (W's over S Smith, K Grove) - (lost his first 4 fights in UFC)
Mike Swick (W's over Loiseau, Riggs) - (dropped to WW)

Leben does not have a single win over a top fighter, while Karo has fought the majority of quality opponents in his stacked division...and has done very well, I might add. The 4 fight win streak that you reference for Karo was against Diaz, Ltyle, Serra, and Thompson. The 5 fight win streak for Leben was against Thacker, Cote, Dewees, Rivera, and Fioravanti. My head almost explodes trying to compare those two lists.

Had Leben beat Anderson, then...? That's a big 'had'. Karo was actually in line for a title shot on 2 occasions now. Alves was supposed to be a fight to keep him active, while waiting for a title match...unfortunately for him, the UFC gave him a tougher challenge than they did for Fitch.
JWils
4/9/08 5:27:29PM
I've always wanted to see Karo vs. Hughes.

But since a Hughes/Serra fight is on the horizon with a Serra loss to GSP, the only way a Karo/Hughes fight happens is if Serra beats GSP on the 19th. Then that fight would make sense.

gartface
4/9/08 6:58:59PM
Matt Hughes/Karo would be a war.
mrliquid
4/9/08 8:10:07PM
Karo is young and has been fighting since he was a teen he has decent stand up and awsome throws I think if he can get inshape and work on his ground game a little he'll get his title shot after a few impressive wins I would love to see a GSP/Karo rematch or another fight with Sanchez
waylon_o
4/9/08 9:20:14PM

Posted by JBatch


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by JBatch


Posted by gartface


Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Well first he needs to train for fights, work on a diet and cut some of the fat and do some power lifting.


Yeah, 'cause he keeps losing all these boring Decisions...



He's lost one decision in the UFC... But I agree that he needs to take training seriously. I'm not exactly sure his status with Legends, but if he's training with Randy, Bas, and Mayhem he can't stay out of shape too much longer.

And the thought of his title hopes being dashed...the guy is 25 years old.



Gartface you just love Karo. I remember us having a war of words before his past fight with Alves. I was calling Karo a gatekeeper and you were pissed saying the same thing he is 25.

Karo and my favourite fighter Chris Leben are in the same boat man. Karo is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 WW and Leben is good but not good enough to beat a top 5 MW. These two fighters really need to either step up thier respective game or move to another org and become a champ if it is the gold they are after. Both fighters give pretty decent fights and it would suck to lose them but it could happen.

Next for Karo I see a fight vs. Paul Kelly or if he wants a tough fight give him his kryptonite again in the form of Marcus Davis. Karo has trouble with good strikers.



Karo and Leben are far from being in the same boat. Karo was a contender, has wins over several notable fighters, and has a win over the current champ...Leben is far from being a contender, with most of his wins over mediocre talent . It's ridiculous to even compare the two.




Lets take a look at the two fighters than shall we.

Karo 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Nick Diaz and Matt Serra. Both decisions. Notable loss to GSP. Longest fight win streak 4 fights against mediocre competition.

Leben 8-3 in the UFC. Notable wins Pat Cote and Jorge Santiago. decision and KO. Notable loss to Anderson Silva. Longest win streak 5 fights angainst mediocre competition.

Had Leben beat Anderson he may have got a title shot just like had Karo beat Alves he could have been up for a shot so tell me how they are so different again.

Edit- Just because thier is more talent in the WW division doesn't mean you can discount someones progress in another division.


Karo actually won fights against opponents that would justify him having a title shot...Leben was nowhere close to a title shot when he fought Silva...he wouldn't have gotten a title shot even if he had fought Silva because most American fans had no idea who Anderson Silva was...most of us on here would, but that was right when the UFC was busting into the mainstream. They wouldn't have given him a title shot.
JBatch
4/9/08 9:49:10PM
I will concede to the fact that Karo has faced tougher competition but also he does not finish fightts. I would also like to say that Karo fought a lot of these top ten fighters when they weren't top ten and very young, and I get it that he was young at the time too. Yet Karo has been fighting his whole life and had an experience and strength advantage over many of those fighters when he fought them 3-4 years ago.

Karo is a physical fighter with a good skill set he just can't finish fights and has a terrible attitude. I think my bias is a little too strong here I just don;t find him to deserve all the praise he gets. I think Koschek, Fitch, Alves, GSP and Hughes would beat him everytime and that why I say he would not beat a top 5 WW.
Pookie
4/9/08 9:59:55PM
yeah that is pretty biased...
GSPCanada
4/13/08 6:48:12PM
I said this on another board but karo needs to make sure he fights a top level opponent and he will be back in the title mix. The way the ww division is he has a good chance of facing Fitch if Fitch loses in his title fight. just think about it

Alves is most likely not next in line and if Fitch wins he certainly won't geta title shot because I don't think the ufc is too excited to set up that rematch.

when St. Pierre lost to Serra he insisted he fight a top level guy, the worst thing Karo can do is fight a guy like Paul Taylor look at Karo vs the ww division

Kos - likely matchup
Gsp - already fought
Serra - already fought
Lytle - already fought
Alves - already fought
Hughes - will probably fight serra and then retire
Sanchez - already fought
Fitch - likely mathcup
Davis - maybe

The only rematch i see happening is the one with sanchez other than that as long as he insists to fight a top 10 guy it has to be Kos or fitch not to mention Fitch will have already fought either st. pierre/serra he wont fight kos and hes already fought sanchez and alves

Karo still has a very likely matchup with Fitch so he needs to win that fight but he does need to cut some of that flab and train
Rush
4/14/08 5:05:46PM

Posted by Jackelope

This is going to piss off some Judo players out there, but I'll say it- I just don't think Judo as your heavy favorite number one skillset is enough to be a top guy. There's plenty of top Judo guys out there, but how many have reached the very top of their respective weight classes and stayed there? Fedor obviously being the notable exception, but IMO that's because he's really worked on his fight finishing ability through GnP and submissions.



I have a 5 year judo background and I agree with you. My only explanation would be that judo guys train in judo for judo and not MMA. What I mean is, I think a lot of judoka don't make the complete transition from judo to MMA and it holds them back.

I see it when Karo fights. He wants to set everything off of a throw and either he can't throw them or it takes time and energy to work for one.


What I think they should do is work an MMA style game plan and use their judo as something that they would execute naturally in the fight without thinking.
MondayNiteMauser
4/16/08 5:02:55PM
I feel like people are forgetting that Karo is still very young. I see him fighting the winner of Lytle/Koscheck or a possible rematch with Deigo is he wins. His next fight will be against a top ten welterweight and if he loses that fight then maybe it's time for him to go somewhere and improve a little more. The sky is still the limit for Karo Parisyian but he'll be second fiddle in the family to Manny after this year.
Tein_Lung
4/16/08 7:30:57PM
The problem with Karo is he is the same EXACT fighter he was 3 years ago, hes not grown and where he beat by close decision would desisivly beat him now.. if he wants a title shot he needs to evolve and i don't think hes capable of that becasue he doesn't want to admit there is stuff he doesn't know how to do
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