Kampmann vs. Condit

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nickcuc547
4/2/09 10:19:02AM
what a great fight, both guys brought everything they had and showed that they are well versed wherever the fight goes. I had it 29-28 for the natural born killer but it was so so close, almost too close to call. these two guys are going to be involved in some classic fights in the near future, can't wait to see who they get next.
cowcatcher
4/2/09 10:23:04AM
i agree with everything you said, i guess the judges(except cecil poeples) didnt think condit did enough after the guillotine in rd1 to steal the round because 2 was his and 3 was kampmanns. im more disappointed that i agreed with cecil peoples than anything, thats a tough pill to swallow...
nickcuc547
4/2/09 10:28:57AM

Posted by cowcatcher

i agree with everything you said, i guess the judges(except cecil poeples) didnt think condit did enough after the guillotine in rd1 to steal the round because 2 was his and 3 was kampmanns. im more disappointed that i agreed with cecil peoples than anything, thats a tough pill to swallow...



i know right, never thought i would think cecil peoples did the best judging job, i guess there is a first time for everything though.
pv3Hpv3p
4/2/09 10:53:51AM
really a razor close decision that could have gone either way... I haven't rewatched the fight yet, but know my gut instinct was to give Kampmann the nod right after I watched the fight...

Personally I don't think a loss in a fight like this does much to hurt either guy... The both left it all out there and put on a show for us fans... Awesome fight
Franklinfan47
4/2/09 10:59:11AM
I think Kampmann having the dominant position for most of the last round secured him the decision. Really close though, I thought Condit was going to take it. Good fight
KaibaThedon
4/2/09 11:54:50AM
I had it 29-28 for the Hitman.

It was super super close, but Kampmann won that fight.
Dragoslav
4/2/09 12:34:51PM
Kampmann defo had round 3. I give him that. Round one was back and forth. Kampmann grabbed a decent choke but he wasn't anywhere near close to finishing with it. Condit winning the striking battle and opening Kampmann up was more signigicant. I give Condit round 1. Round 2 also was back and forth, but again Condit proved more dominant standing and also took Kampmann's back at one point. I also gave Condit round 2. Peepils is a boxing judge and he needs to stay a boxing judge. He knows dick about MMA.
breakdown5
4/2/09 12:38:53PM
The fight was very close, but I think Kampmann definitely won the fight, even though Condit probably did more damage. Kampmann controlled the fight for the majority of the time.
Dragoslav
4/2/09 12:44:39PM
How did he control the fight? Was he controlling the fight when he was getting beaten up standing? Was he controlling the fight when he couldn't pass Condit's guard? Just because you're on top does not mean you are controlling the fight. In someone's guard is not a dominant position. It's a stalemate position. You might be keeping them on the ground but they're keeping you in their guard.
coldchillin
4/2/09 1:23:03PM
Condit won the first 2 rounds convincingly while Kampmann definitely had the third. I felt like Kampmann was stalling at times on the ground and the fight should have been stood up but that's the ref's fault and not his. If a fighter is failing to improve his position for more than a minute in another fighter's guard and not doing much damage with any strikes, the fight should be stood up.

Condit won the fight 29-28.
Twenty20Dollars
4/2/09 2:24:31PM

Posted by Dragoslav

Just because you're on top does not mean you are controlling the fight.



Yes it does, you are keeping them on the ground, which is controlling where the fight goes.
If some does lay n' prey, the person on their back doesnt win the fight because they kept them in their guard.

Kampmann also had more sub attempts, which helps score points for him in the judges eyes.

I had it 3, 29-28's kampmann. 1st and 3rd to martin.
fizzle
4/2/09 2:25:49PM

Posted by Dragoslav

Kampmann defo had round 3. I give him that. Round one was back and forth. Kampmann grabbed a decent choke but he wasn't anywhere near close to finishing with it. Condit winning the striking battle and opening Kampmann up was more signigicant. I give Condit round 1. Round 2 also was back and forth, but again Condit proved more dominant standing and also took Kampmann's back at one point. I also gave Condit round 2. Peepils is a boxing judge and he needs to stay a boxing judge. He knows dick about MMA.



Ceicil peoples was the only person who saw it the same what you did... both other judges saw 2 rounds for Kampmann and one round for Condit. So i don't understand the biased against him... at any rate i feel Kampmann did enough to control the flow of the fight and he was able to capitalize late in the third. Kampann all the way. Carlos is a beast though, can't wait to see both of these fighter's next outing.
FlashyG
4/2/09 2:41:07PM
At first I actually had all 3 rounds for Kampmann,

After rewatching I gave the second to Condit but I still agree with the decision.

this was easily one of the closest decisions I've ever seen.

Even Fightmetric has it as a draw.

Link

I had Condit winning the striking battle in rds 1 and 2, the third being even.
The grappling going to Kampmann in rds 1 and 2 with the 3rd going to Condit and the Octagon control being the difference maker with Kampmann spending more time coming forward, and on top for all 3 rounds.

State_Champ
4/2/09 2:46:17PM

Posted by Dragoslav

How did he control the fight? Was he controlling the fight when he was getting beaten up standing? Was he controlling the fight when he couldn't pass Condit's guard? Just because you're on top does not mean you are controlling the fight. In someone's guard is not a dominant position. It's a stalemate position. You might be keeping them on the ground but they're keeping you in their guard.



Dragoslav
4/2/09 2:56:02PM

Posted by FlashyG

At first I actually had all 3 rounds for Kampmann,

After rewatching I gave the second to Condit but I still agree with the decision.

this was easily one of the closest decisions I've ever seen.

Even Fightmetric has it as a draw.

Link

I had Condit winning the striking battle in rds 1 and 2, the third being even.
The grappling going to Kampmann in rds 1 and 2 with the 3rd going to Condit and the Octagon control being the difference maker with Kampmann spending more time coming forward, and on top for all 3 rounds.




How can you give the grappling to Kampmann when he couldn't pass Condit's guard and Condit took his back in round 2?
slapshot
4/2/09 2:59:01PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars


Posted by Dragoslav

Just because you're on top does not mean you are controlling the fight.



Yes it does, you are keeping them on the ground, which is controlling where the fight goes.
If some does lay n' prey, the person on their back doesnt win the fight because they kept them in their guard.

Kampmann also had more sub attempts, which helps score points for him in the judges eyes.

I had it 3, 29-28's kampmann. 1st and 3rd to martin.



When a fight is so close I dont see any reason to be upset with the judges anyway.
FlashyG
4/2/09 3:08:01PM
to me a failed submission is a failed submission regardless of what type.

I dont value a failed rear-naked choke over a failed Guillotine or a failed armbar.

I counted Condit taking his back, thats part of the reason I gave him the second round but the fact remains that in the first 2 rounds Condit only attempted 1 submission to Kampmanns 5, thats why I gave him the edge in grappling.

loller90278
4/2/09 3:32:22PM
thats why i dont prefer the 10 point must system. that fight was as close to a draw as any fight in history!

Jackelope
4/2/09 7:09:03PM
Effort to finish. Said it a million times over, and I'll keep saying it. Needs to be judging criteria as of last year and even further back.

The only reason the ref didn't stand them up in the 3rd is because Carlos was attempting submissions, escapes and reversals. Kampmann wasn't doing anything besides occasionally standing up and throwing a little GnP.

Effort to finish. Effort to finish. Effort to finish.
Wolfenstein
4/2/09 7:31:26PM
Razor thin decision to say the least. I probably would have scored it a draw. I'd give the second round to Condit, and the third to Kampman, and the 1st was just too close to call. The fact that Cecil People's scred it for Condit leads me to believe that Kampman rightfully won lol.

In MMA, I actually believe being in someone's guard is a superior position.

I think Condit just spent too much time in the third round trying to play the guard game, against a fighter that knew just what to do. Kampman didn't take any chances, and by him standing over Condit he was able to burn the clock and land some GnP. When he stood up over Condit, and landed, I'm not sure if it was his knees hitting the mat, or that his punches landed flush, but they emitted a thunderous sound.

When Condit reached over for the kimura--I could here his corner screaming to get up, because kimuras from the guard have nearly a zero success rate, and he was just burning the clock.

If I absolutely had to pick a winner, I probably would give it to Kampman, because he did control most of the action, and he didn't give Condit many oppurtunities to catch anything from the bottom. I would have liked to have seen another thirty seconds in that round, just to see how deep that guillotine was.
UFCmma666
4/2/09 8:18:05PM
kampmann really proved himself to me last night
SociopathX
4/2/09 9:41:03PM
Condit got robbed. except for a few failed submission attemps Kampmann did no dmg. he gassed at the end of round 2.

Kampmans gameplan for rd 3? Lay on Condit! and he pulled it off and the split. what a joke
bls1919
4/2/09 11:11:59PM
WOW ......what a fight. i loved every second of it. Condit really impressed me and kampman did what i thought he would. Such a close fight. I hated to see either one of those guys lose, but.....life goes on. i see Condit getting right back into action to keep his name fresh in casual fans minds.
breakdown5
4/2/09 11:54:56PM

Posted by Dragoslav

How did he control the fight? Was he controlling the fight when he was getting beaten up standing? Was he controlling the fight when he couldn't pass Condit's guard? Just because you're on top does not mean you are controlling the fight. In someone's guard is not a dominant position. It's a stalemate position. You might be keeping them on the ground but they're keeping you in their guard.



He controlled the fight based on western scoring methods (ie. the ten point must system). If the fight was in Japan, Condit probably would have gotten the nod. With the current scoring system in the UFC, maintaining top position will usually get you the W. Kampmann also scored more takedowns 5-3 (controlling where the fight is taking place) as well as throwing up more sub attempts. I agree with the fact that attempts to finish the fight should be considered more heavily than maintaining top position, BUT IT DOESN'T in the UFC by looking at previous close decisions.

This is why I say that Kampmann won the fight and controlled where the fight took place.

It sounds like you need to dig up an old thread about the nuances of scoring (PRIDE vs. UFC).
Gipper
4/3/09 1:52:53AM
props to both fighters they both put on a great fight.

i had it 29-28 condit
first 2 rds to condit
bojangalz
4/4/09 5:29:11PM

Posted by SociopathX

Condit got robbed. except for a few failed submission attemps Kampmann did no dmg. he gassed at the end of round 2.

Kampmans gameplan for rd 3? Lay on Condit! and he pulled it off and the split. what a joke



First of all, nobody got "robbed" in that fight. It was razor thin all the way. I agree with the decision for all the reasons previously stated. But regardless of the outcome, it would be rediculous to say either fighter was "robbed".
Hendo67
4/5/09 4:23:00PM

Posted by bojangalz


Posted by SociopathX

Condit got robbed. except for a few failed submission attemps Kampmann did no dmg. he gassed at the end of round 2.

Kampmans gameplan for rd 3? Lay on Condit! and he pulled it off and the split. what a joke



First of all, nobody got "robbed" in that fight. It was razor thin all the way. I agree with the decision for all the reasons previously stated. But regardless of the outcome, it would be rediculous to say either fighter was "robbed".


I agree, It was far too close to say someone was robbed...

What's next for Martin? I've always been a huge fan of his, i'm interested to see who his next opponent will be.
bls1919
4/5/09 8:26:52PM
A Fitch VS Condit fith would be great IMO. i hope the UFC keeps him in there against quality competition.
fonduktoe
4/10/09 3:09:05AM
this fight just illustrates how subjective mma judging is
the sport is too dynamic for judges to use simple point value systems
at the end of every round it is an informed opinion that decides the outcome of a decision
i think it's unfortunate that wins and losses are so arbitrarily contrived so my best advice to all fighters is to just finish the fight
(i'd prefer if the fighters were allowed to fight until a definitive finish occurred.)
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