Judo for Wrestling

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1/2/09 8:11:26PM
On a quick concern, i've been wrestling for a little while now, and was just thinking about when in neutral, there"s no problem with doing Judo throws,and so, why dont you ever see wrestlers doing them in there matchs?? Yes, you do see some hip throws,and occasionly a arm throw, but nothing like a "uchi mata" or something on the lines of that..Probly cause noyone knows that, correct?
Your thoughts on learning some Judo??

And by the way,regular collegiate rules
1/2/09 9:26:23PM
Try using one in a match. I thought I was being slick my junior year and started leaning a couple throws like the jap toss and the traditional ones. They just don't work. As soon as a wrestler gives up that back or turns the other guy capitalizes.

We had a German exchange student who decided to wrestle and he was the equivilant of a state level judo guy in the States. He almost never got throws.

It's a balance thing, in MMA a Judo guy vs Wrestler the Judo guy can use timing and wait to counter toss. Think Lyoto vs Ortiz, on the mat he never would've powerhoused Ortiz that way with a slam, but time it in an MMA fight and boom Tito takes a hurtin.

Same with the Judo guys.
1/2/09 11:50:37PM
I've never wrestled before but I do have a solid background in Judo so most of what I'll say is just theoretical and you would probably get a better answer from someone who has wrestled in college or high school.

I think the main reason being that most judo throws are risky, because you have to expose your back. I personally love to use the "uchi mata" as a counter to the single. I use it all the time (with mixed success) against wrestlers at my camp. I think foot sweeps would be more appropriate for wrestling like the "Deashi Harai"...

1/3/09 12:58:49AM
You have to get them to stand up out of stance or wait till they're out of stance. A lot of top guys leg hook oponents leg when they shoot though.
1/5/09 11:10:44AM
A good 50% of judo moves will have counterparts in wrestling. You already mentioned hip throws and arm throws--which are really very broad categories and almost any of the trips would be used as well.

So those 50% or so work just fine. The other 50% aren't used in wrestling for a reason--namely that they don't work in that environment. The reasons vary, but some of the more common ones are:
* relying too heavily on a gi grip
* throw puts the person who tries it into too compromising a position (turning the back, fall-away throws, etc.) and he'll get countered more times than not
* not taking into account the ability of your opponent to drop levels (to attack the legs with the upper-body or to snap the head down and keep control of it--judo works under the basic assumption than both guys have their upper and lower bodies in similar alignment before a move or series of moves starts
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