Judging and People not Agreeing

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kingsmasher
6/5/11 2:22:13AM
OK I hear and read a lot about how judging and scoring and this and that should be changed...

Bottom line is this...both fighters in a fight know that if theyre on the bottom in a fight they are losing...Regardless of submission attempts...Its not like a fighter steps in and says hey I have no idea what i need to do to win...Fighters know if theyre being controlled they arent going to get the judges nod regardless of submission attempts...Just as we sit here and analyze the fights....Guess what they do to....All fighters know if theyre on the bottom they take a risk attempting submission attempts and not finishing...

Yeah we would like to see things changed but guess what...I see no reason to change a system all the sudden...Both fighters have the same rules...

In closing I just want to say yeah I thoguht Torres did a lot more to win his fight...At best I thoguht it was a draw...Why?

I have watched a lot of MMA and know that right now the judges are going to give the nod to the guy on top 9 outta 10 times...

Of course theres gonna still be questionable decisions...will be no matter what even if rules are changed but as of now all fighters know they risk losing if theyre on the bottom attempting subs and do not finish...So dont be surprised cause they arent...

Now read Pettis saying he knew this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/columns/story?id=6627194
tcunningham
6/5/11 2:50:25AM
for sure. ive seen many fights were a superior jits guy stays on his back where hes comfortable but still lose because a wrestler stays on top of him and does just enough to not get the fight stood back up. joe was saying in the 3rd round that pettis should try to wrap guida up in order to get the judge to stand them back up. he didnt do it obviously but thats what its come to in MMA today. a big part of the sport is playing the game.
telnights
6/5/11 3:23:42AM
If you going to post in the news forums you need to post it as news. Not as your opinion then link a news store. The way this should have been posted is clearly defined in the 1000 other news stories posted in the news forum. I have moved this to the MMA Lounge because as its posted now this where it belongs. I find it funny for you to try to explain the way MMA is judged to people on these forums but yet you don't seam to understand the basic rules of these forums.
grappler0000
6/5/11 5:34:09AM
I think you're misunderstanding what people are disagreeing about. Nobody is surprised when a person loses a fight after spending the majority of the fight on their back....nobody. People have come to expect that from the judges, regardless of what happens during the fight. The disagreements are over what the proper scoring "should" be, based on the actual judging criteria.
SNAPNAPORTAP
6/5/11 8:17:31AM
Whats the point of working off your back if the judges, who alledgedly know what BJJ is, score EVERY fight for the goon that just lays on top of someone? Unless your score a submission finish, throwing sub attempts scores you NO points. Shoulder thrusts shouldnt score more points in the judges eyes than an attempt to sever an opponents arm from his body.
warglory
6/5/11 12:09:12PM
BJJ is an affective style on bottom, but this isn't a bjj tournament. The reason why that guy got put on his back, is more than likely because the dude on top put him there. If a guy pulls guard, it's usually because they are confident enough to get the submission, and often do, but in the case of Pettis, he was put there with a very aggressive guy on top. If Pettis consistently had Guida locked up, in dangerous scenarios, it may have been different, but Guida dominated the ground game.
SNAPNAPORTAP
6/5/11 12:20:36PM
This also isn't a wrestling tournament. Too many fights are turning into takedown, laydown fights. I'm not saying BJJ should count for more than wrestling, I just wish more judges would pay attention to what the fighter on top is doing, truly staying active and looking to advance position/finish fight, not just laying there, upper torso humping.
kingsmasher
6/5/11 12:31:13PM
I think the addition of monitors for judges would help but it will be hard for judges to stare at a monitor when the fight is right in front of them...I was curious if they have monitors do they watch a feed like on it was on tv or is the camera running straight to them...because us as fans are always getting the best view by cameras being switched...Thats why there will always be an advantage to being on top..You can clearly see who on top and depending on the angles you cant tell what someone is really doing on bottom...
rockyf
6/5/11 5:06:13PM
I would think the rules allow for guys being active from the bottom...Being on top is the dominant position but not if you are constantly defending attacks from the guy beneath you..!!

Most MMA judging is based on the specific criteria being 'effective'..!!

If you are on top of a guy for 4 minutes doing nothing while the guy underneath you is landing punches and going for submission attempts surely it is he that is being more 'effective'..?

marcoDGK
6/6/11 1:07:44AM
I think crappy judging is the best thing that can happen to the UFC. Maybe fighters will learn they shouldn't let it go to the judges. Everyone understands at times a fight just has no other choice but even those fights will never have an agreeable outcome.
warglory
6/6/11 7:36:41AM

Posted by SNAPNAPORTAP

This also isn't a wrestling tournament. Too many fights are turning into takedown, laydown fights. I'm not saying BJJ should count for more than wrestling, I just wish more judges would pay attention to what the fighter on top is doing, truly staying active and looking to advance position/finish fight, not just laying there, upper torso humping.



You're honestly saying right now, that Clay Guida didn't stay active in his fight with Pettis?
warglory
6/6/11 7:40:07AM

Posted by rockyf

I would think the rules allow for guys being active from the bottom...Being on top is the dominant position but not if you are constantly defending attacks from the guy beneath you..!!

Most MMA judging is based on the specific criteria being 'effective'..!!

If you are on top of a guy for 4 minutes doing nothing while the guy underneath you is landing punches and going for submission attempts surely it is he that is being more 'effective'..?




Please, you make it sound like Pettis was laying waste to Guida on his back. The man didn't hit Guida with much, and attempted submissions all day, but hardly any put Guida in any real danger. Not to mention, grappling isn't only about submissions.
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