Josh Koscheck Is Not Happy

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MMAcca
2/22/09 12:26:12PM
Josh Koscheck is clearly not happy about the stoppage in his UFC 95 fight with Paulo Thiago. In this backstage video from The Telegraph he insists his hands were up, his eyes were open, and his guard was ready. His cornermen seem to feel the early stoppage was part of a trend on the night -- perhaps a dig at "regional referees" in the U.K.?



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Porch28
2/22/09 12:33:37PM
I have to agree a little with JOsh I mean he was clearly rocked and he did get dropped put as Paulo was going to pounce on him and the Ref jumped in Josh was getting his hands up in defense. The ref should have let that play out it was a little premature. I feel the same with the Struve fight but I think he was in a lot more trouble then Josh. IMO
Focker101
2/22/09 1:08:25PM
I fully agree with Josh
wow cant believe i said that out loud

The stoppage was premature for sure
I agree we have to air on the side of caution but come on these guys are fighters not dancers lol the ref should have let that one play out
I think Josh would have been fine look how many times he got hit hard by Alves and took it to decision
I believe he would have recovered
mictlantechutli
2/22/09 1:19:44PM
I'm not the biggest Koscheck fan in the world, but he's a top ten fighter, and you have to give those guys the benefit of the doubt. Early stoppage, no doubt. Thiago may have followed up and stopped it right there, but that ref needed to let it play out. Tough loss, Thiago capitalized on that sloppy jab by Koscheck, so props to him.
nickcuc547
2/22/09 1:19:47PM
koscheck's eyes were rolled into the back of his head, he was out and one more punch from thiago would have put him out cold, no way he could defend himself there, josh dominated until getting tagged, it happens to just about everybody, take the loss and move on, everybody knows kos is the better fighter. i think he looks pretty bad complaining about this.
Solidus
2/22/09 1:34:46PM
Kos hit the floor stiff with his eyes rolled back in his head and no indication of going on the defensive, he was clearly out. If the ref hadnt stopped the fight there he would have took some unnecessary punishment and he wouldnt have recovered so quickly to complain about it.
ziegler3334
2/22/09 1:42:51PM
The stoppage may have been a little premature, but had it not been stopped, Kos would have almost for sure been knocked out. He was defenseless for a moment (his eyes were kind of rolling). Thiago could have laid him out right there. I was surprised he didn't jump at him, could cost him a win someday when the ref isn't jumping in.

So although the fight appeared to stop prematurely, I think that Thiago would have won either way. Therefore, you can't really complain too much about the stoppage because it prevented unnecessary damage.
kasual
2/22/09 1:43:36PM
He was out, eyes rolled back laying prone. You can see when he hit the mat he was in a daze and when the ref gets in the way he regains his faculties. Thiago had enough time to saunter over and then waive himself off before the ref even intervened, he knew that Koscheck was out. Yeah Koscheck is an elite fighter but this is just sour grapes, and it's lousy for Thiago having his debut marred by this fake controversy. Koscheck was getting sloppy in the pocket and eating small counter punches in first few and not adjusting, then he paid the price. This must be a hard pill for him to swallow with all the **** he talked before the fight.
gabe531
2/22/09 1:47:49PM

Posted by ziegler3334

The stoppage may have been a little premature, but had it not been stopped, Kos would have almost for sure been knocked out. He was defenseless for a moment (his eyes were kind of rolling). Thiago could have laid him out right there. I was surprised he didn't jump at him, could cost him a win someday when the ref isn't jumping in.

So although the fight appeared to stop prematurely, I think that Thiago would have won either way. Therefore, you can't really complain too much about the stoppage because it prevented unnecessary damage.


problem is that the only way you know that thiago would have won is let it play out. atleast throw 1 punch on the ground, it wasnt like he was out cold not moving, he had limbs up. maybe 1 punch on ground would have sealed it, fine it would have been a good stoppage. but leaving it without a punch thrown while on the ground is bad. there are so many times a guy gets knocked to ground and not stopped. take a quick trip back and see how the HW div would have turned if this ref was doing HH vs NOG in the ufc. nog would have lost his ufc debut, got no title shot and prolly been cut by ufc and HH would have faced sylvia for interim belt. just have to let the fight play out. nog did the same thing that kos did yet he recovered. bring up nogs history thats true but when was kos ever rocked this bad before?
Skatanicus
2/22/09 2:04:31PM
If Kos had dropped Thiago like that, it would have been over, never would have been questioned, and I don't see any reason to complain about this one unless for the fact that you think Koscheck can win fights unconscious. He got cracked by the uppercut, the next punch his head flies off to the side because he's already out. One punch KO, he just recovers quickly and thinks, "I'm fine, I can argue this", then sees in the replay it was clearly a good stoppage but just wants to keep lying to himself. Whatever he lost, and it was a great fight to see for me.
Skatanicus
2/22/09 2:10:49PM
Every fight where the ref stops it the loser could theoretically still have won, the ref has to step in when it becomes apparent, from what they know about how fights go (especially how they end), that the fight is no longer an intelligent contest, or when one fighter is at risk of serious injury. Koscheck doesn't have the right to be beaten when he's out until he's completely out, that's very dangerous. Herring should have followed up on dropping Nog but he didn't and that is why he lost.
4u2nv
2/22/09 2:21:27PM


i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.
emfleek
2/22/09 2:29:48PM

Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.



This is AFTER the fact...when he went down, it was CLEAR that his eyes were rolled back in his head. Watch the replay, man.

At first I thought it was premature but after watching it a few times, I have to agree with the ref. Good stoppage.
JimiMak
2/22/09 2:44:19PM
OF COURSE he's upset. That was possibly the worst call I've ever seen. That ref should never be allowed in an mma ring again. We do not call fights for a knock down. The rule is intelligently defending ones self, he clearly was. It's as clear as day.
Red-Dragon
2/22/09 2:45:07PM
I watched this one in the arena and at the time I thought it was a poor stoppage. Now I have had time to view the replays a few times I can see why the ref did it. He was out but only for a few seconds. I think he could have recovered but he could also have received another shot to the head that put him out properly. You have to leave these decisions to the ref and respect their decision. They after all, are the ones in the cage at the time.
motorboatensob
2/22/09 3:34:21PM
He went limp his eyes rolled back and his head hit the mat. Had he got jumped on after that he would have been hurt bad. Early or not it was over Koscheck was on the magic school bus riding it all the way the gum drop forest to la la land. He was done I hate that he lost, I don't like him but I hate that he lost he is a top guy at WW.
mk1630
2/22/09 3:40:11PM
As soon as I saw Kos drop I thought it was going to be called. It looked like he was done as soon as he dropped and i think one or two more punches would have solidified it. It would have been bice to see the ref let it go a little longer, but the ending would have been the same.
Wolfenstein
2/22/09 4:01:53PM
It looked like he was stunned to me. Once he hit the floor he sat up, and Paulo wasn't exactly pouncing on him. I have no doubt he would have recovered. I don't know--he may have just been woken up when his head hit the ground--but he sat up immediatley and when he stood up, he wasn't on shakey feet at all.

I actually thought there were a few premature stoppages. I think because Struve has such long legs it made it look really awkward when he got knocked down, but I think he was still very much in that fight. Probably the worst stoppage of them all I think was Cobb being stopped by Etim. I don't think he was even rocked. It was just a knockdown.
mikevolz
2/22/09 4:21:59PM
cmill21
2/22/09 4:23:21PM

Posted by mikevolz





Looks pretty out...
jakeiceman
2/22/09 4:27:54PM

Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.




You cant argue with evidence, Kos was fine and I would be pissed too.

He is a veteran and a tought guy, the ref should take this into consideration. I understand protecting the guys with less experience but this was just plain wrong.
jakeiceman
2/22/09 4:28:53PM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by mikevolz





Looks pretty out...




Looks pretty ROCKED...not out.

Then he looks ok to go.
GSPCanada
2/22/09 4:42:23PM
He was out momentarily, the refs need to remember they eed to stop the fights where the guys are out or not intelligently defending themselves not where the fighters arent going to defed themselves or are going to be out. the struve fight was def premature and so was this one for the reason that thiago didnt pounce, if he pounced there is no debate. but he took forever, kos would have recovered and really the person who is at fault here is thiago. if the ref doest step in and thiago misses with his first punch koscheck recovers most likely
PABLOMAFIOSO
2/22/09 4:50:34PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.



This is AFTER the fact...when he went down, it was CLEAR that his eyes were rolled back in his head. Watch the replay, man.

At first I thought it was premature but after watching it a few times, I have to agree with the ref. Good stoppage.



This picture shows kos still trying to figure out what just happened, he went out and was fortunate that Thiago didn't jump on him to finish (inflicting unneccesary punishment)
decken
2/22/09 5:12:07PM

Posted by PABLOMAFIOSO


Posted by emfleek


Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.



This is AFTER the fact...when he went down, it was CLEAR that his eyes were rolled back in his head. Watch the replay, man.

At first I thought it was premature but after watching it a few times, I have to agree with the ref. Good stoppage.



This picture shows kos still trying to figure out what just happened, he went out and was fortunate that Thiago didn't jump on him to finish (inflicting unneccesary punishment)



The real question is when are you not trying to figure out what happened when you are knocked down? It was an early stoppage. Yes kos was knocked down and it might have been a flash KO but he recovered before Thiago could jump on him(kos moves in anticipation of Thiago pouncing on him) so I think the fight should have continued.
WheelchairBandit
2/22/09 5:35:52PM
The only reason this looks like a bad stoppage is due to the fact that Thiago didn't pounce on Kos.Had he pounced on him and hit him with one or two hammerfists,no one would be complaining.Let's say the ref hadn't stopped the fight-instead,at the moment the fight was stopped,Thiago jumps on Kos.WTF would Kos be able to do?He was still in la-la land.Thiago would have popped him a couple more times and the result would have been the same.

I didn't have a problem with the stoppage.I think Thiago showed that he was a little green by not pouncing on Kos just to put a stamp on it,but he knew the second that Kos hit the mat that the fight was over,as did the ref.

I really don't think this is as controversial as everyone thinks it is.This isn't like the first Nate Quarry vs. Pete Sell fight where Sell got dropped and the ref jumped in while Sell is yelling at him.Kos was flash KO'ed and was temporarily defenseless-the only thing saving him was either the mercy or inexperience of his opponent.

Next thing you know,folks will be saying that the Rashad vs. Chuck fight was stopped too early.

WB.
supatolacyl
2/22/09 5:38:29PM

Posted by decken


Posted by PABLOMAFIOSO


Posted by emfleek


Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.



This is AFTER the fact...when he went down, it was CLEAR that his eyes were rolled back in his head. Watch the replay, man.

At first I thought it was premature but after watching it a few times, I have to agree with the ref. Good stoppage.



This picture shows kos still trying to figure out what just happened, he went out and was fortunate that Thiago didn't jump on him to finish (inflicting unneccesary punishment)



The real question is when are you not trying to figure out what happened when you are knocked down? It was an early stoppage. Yes kos was knocked down and it might have been a flash KO but he recovered before Thiago could jump on him(kos moves in anticipation of Thiago pouncing on him) so I think the fight should have continued.



LMAO that is a picture of a guy trying to figure out where da hell he was at. Thiago should have jumped on him his own fault there. I believe the ref would have been just in the stoppage if he was right beside the action, but he was behind Thiago and it took him several seconds to get to Koschek and by the time he did Kos had lifted up a little, but he still had n idea what had just happened. If the ref would have been closer to the action this picture would not be here and you would be seeing a picture of the ref over his limpbody. So a big thumbs down to the ref for not being in the right position and making it look like an early stopage
nickcuc547
2/22/09 5:57:13PM

Posted by jakeiceman


Posted by cmill21


Posted by mikevolz





Looks pretty out...




Looks pretty ROCKED...not out.

Then he looks ok to go.



dude you know if the ref hadn't stepped in kos would have been blasted and unconscious, you're argument is ridiculous, where is this evidence you talk about, he was all done and about to be out. thiago even held back a shot that could have buried him but he knew kos was done too.
sparky
2/22/09 6:06:42PM

Posted by 4u2nv



i dont see his eyes rolled into the back of his head but.... idk.



Koscheck is out. I have seen guys knocked out with there eyes open. One more shot and Koscheck might have took a trip to the hospital. He should be greatful that the ref saved him when he did. He looks like a deer in head lights in this photo!!
jakeiceman
2/22/09 6:45:26PM

Posted by nickcuc547


Posted by jakeiceman


Posted by cmill21


Posted by mikevolz





Looks pretty out...




Looks pretty ROCKED...not out.

Then he looks ok to go.



dude you know if the ref hadn't stepped in kos would have been blasted and unconscious, you're argument is ridiculous, where is this evidence you talk about, he was all done and about to be out. thiago even held back a shot that could have buried him but he knew kos was done too.



Your statement proves that YOUR comment is rediculous so think twice before calling someone out. How about Scott Smith vs. Pete Sell. Sell dropped Smith and it looked like he was about to **** out his intestines afer that shot. Sell rushed it (like Paulo should have) and Smith showed a lot of heart and caught him on the way in with a big right and knocked him unconscious.

The fact that you think you know how fights will end in a sport like MMA makes you rediculous.

You ask for my proof? How bout the FACT that Kos immediately got back up after the ref stopped it and was walking around and quite aware. He wasnt wobbly he wasnt falling all over......yeah he was KTFO


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