Jones vs Machida

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the_01
11/25/11 5:58:24PM
Strange how this fight has'nt been discussed much, or maybe I havnt been following up lately. Since Machida's style has been exposed, he is no more of a threat to any fighter. He has been beaten by 2 fighter that Jones had no problem with. His recent win was a lucky shot that will never happen again. I dont know the meaning of this fight, it makes no sence. One thoery dictates that UFC wants Machida out of the organization, and this is the best way. Another says that UFC wants to reduce Machida's basic pay in his next contract, and this is one way. I dont know. All I know is that Im a Machida fan, and I hope this wasnt given to him as bait.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
I'd like to hear your openion on this.
Franklinfan47
11/25/11 6:15:31PM
Well, basically Rashad got injured so Machida was the only one left to fight Bones at the time. I dont think it was to punish Machida in any way, he was just coming off that big couture win so it made sense.

As for the fight, I agree Bones is a huge favorite, but stranger things have happened...
Budgellism
11/25/11 6:16:13PM
He was given the fight because he's the next best challenger to Jones' belt. Evans wouldn't be ready for 140 and that card needed a headliner. There's nothing more to it than that. They don't want to get him out of the organization, that would be ridiculous.
BeeR
11/25/11 6:18:56PM
lucky shot?

mrsmiley
11/25/11 6:24:22PM

Posted by the_01

Strange how this fight has'nt been discussed much, or maybe I havnt been following up lately. Since Machida's style has been exposed, he is no more of a threat to any fighter. He has been beaten by 2 fighter that Jones had no problem with. His recent win was a lucky shot that will never happen again. I dont know the meaning of this fight, it makes no sence. One thoery dictates that UFC wants Machida out of the organization, and this is the best way. Another says that UFC wants to reduce Machida's basic pay in his next contract, and this is one way. I dont know. All I know is that Im a Machida fan, and I hope this wasnt given to him as bait.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
I'd like to hear your openion on this.



I can see your point but you never know with MMA.
I really didn't think Shogun was going to have a chance against Machida considering he was coming off a close win over Coleman and an aging Liddell but I was sorely proven wrong in that instance and I wouldn't be suprised if it happened again.
DoTheMMAth
11/25/11 6:53:02PM
This one is a total coin toss to me.

- We've really never seen anyone test Bones' chin.

- This is the first time we've ever had Machida coming off of a loss and there is no way of knowing if he's gonna come off the loss like he's Brandon Vera or if his first loss is going to light a fire under his piss-drinking ass.

- Both guys are the most unique and/or unorthodox guys in their division and both are top LHWs. Good luck predicting style matchup ahead of time.
king_katool
11/25/11 7:41:27PM

Posted by DoTheMMAth

This one is a total coin toss to me.

- We've really never seen anyone test Bones' chin.

- This is the first time we've ever had Machida coming off of a loss and there is no way of knowing if he's gonna come off the loss like he's Brandon Vera or if his first loss is going to light a fire under his piss-drinking ass.

- Both guys are the most unique and/or unorthodox guys in their division and both are top LHWs. Good luck predicting style matchup ahead of time.



Machida won his last fight via matrix kick to the face
ajp10k
11/25/11 7:48:51PM

- This is the first time we've ever had Machida coming off of a loss and there is no way of knowing if he's gonna come off the loss like he's Brandon Vera or if his first loss is going to light a fire under his piss-drinking ass.



... Did you not see the Randy Couture fight?

Anyways, Its a interesting match up because they both like fighting from the outside. Only difference is Lyoto likes being the counter when Jon is more offensive from a distance. I would also not forget about Lyotos takedowns. He has pretty good takedown but I don't see him taking down Jones. But could he stop Bones if he went for a takedown is questionable.

I hate to say it but Bones does have the advantage but i'm still rooting for Lyoto.
Poor_Franklin
11/25/11 7:53:14PM
oh he just forgot guys. he's been too busy improving the site. cut him some slack
Pookie
11/25/11 8:27:25PM
Machida's strategy should be, make Jones move forward, in order to diminish his reach advantage.

Tactically he can do this with light leg kicks, as evidenced from the rashad fight, he can attack with them from a range outside of anybody's arm length.

Fighters with long reaches traditionally have a tough time being the aggressor, and with the size of jon jones legs, i can gurantee he can't burst forward with strikes as well as he can back pedal away from them.

Jones takedowns are almost always from the clinch, and Machida's TDD revolves around movement and using his sumo to break the clinch if someone can get ahold of him. I think defending clinch takedowns is the strongest part of Machida's entire game.

In theory, i think Machida's trainers should know exactly what they have to do to win this fight. But Jones is a talent, and is the favorite for a reason.

I don't think we see someone test Jones as much as Machida will for years to come.

I'm picking Machida for the +2
DoTheMMAth
11/25/11 8:33:00PM

Posted by king_katool


Posted by DoTheMMAth

This one is a total coin toss to me.

- We've really never seen anyone test Bones' chin.

- This is the first time we've ever had Machida coming off of a loss and there is no way of knowing if he's gonna come off the loss like he's Brandon Vera or if his first loss is going to light a fire under his piss-drinking ass.

- Both guys are the most unique and/or unorthodox guys in their division and both are top LHWs. Good luck predicting style matchup ahead of time.



Machida won his last fight via matrix kick to the face



Damn, you're right. I totally forgot about the "Handy" fight. Then again, my avatar (until recently) was one that dis-credited Randy. I never considered him to be much more than an opportunist. His loss to Machida was straight MMA math as far as I'm concerned. But I also excludeded the Rampage "loss"! Fail!

Either way Ima retard for forgetting that!
BuffaloDave
11/25/11 10:07:50PM

Posted by Pookie
I'm picking Machida for the +2



That would be 5 points
Pookie
11/26/11 12:27:07AM

Posted by BuffaloDave


Posted by Pookie
I'm picking Machida for the +2



That would be 5 points



At the very least 7.
karn501
11/26/11 1:05:04AM
imo machida has the best shot at taking that belt from jones we've seen more then once what happens when machida fights aggressive fighters the shogun thing was just a bad style matchup imo the loss to page was just like his win over shogun that being said jones will probably win but i'm picking machida beware the counter fighter
tcunningham
11/26/11 1:20:37AM
i think machida will get owned, but bottom line is in MMA, especially at the top level, you never really know what to expect. how many times have we seen somebody beat the fighter that beat the other fighter they lost to (i hope that makes sense). styles make fights. machida has KO power, probably more than bones does even. this fight could be very interesting
Chael_Sonnen
11/26/11 3:10:55AM
I wonder if the Machida Camp is going to say Mr. Jones has another spy working covert ops

Bones vicious TKO - - rd 4
mrsmiley
11/26/11 8:50:01AM

Posted by tcunningham

i think machida will get owned, but bottom line is in MMA, especially at the top level, you never really know what to expect. how many times have we seen somebody beat the fighter that beat the other fighter they lost to (i hope that makes sense). styles make fights. machida has KO power, probably more than bones does even. this fight could be very interesting



LOL yeah this is the crazy thing about MMA.

An example of what you mean:

Vitor deystroyed Wandy.
Saku took out Vitor
Wandy deystroyed Saku at least 3 times.
prozacnation1978
11/26/11 9:47:18AM
I don't think machida deserved a title shot with win over randy
But with evans out, phil davis out, hendo not signed yet.

Jones has a few guys lined up. And he is the only champ to fight more than three times a year. I could see him facing hendo or evans in march.

I would be very suprised to see machida beat jones
sbulldavid
11/26/11 3:43:26PM
I think Henderson has the best shot at landing one shot to beat Jones, I think Forrest Griffin physically matches up with him the best but is so far out of the title picture right now, and Machida offers a lot of problems but he can run all the circles he wants because Jones can reach anywhere from the center of the octagon. Machida or anybody for that matter needs to rock Jones early for them to ever stand a chance of beating Jones.
Poor_Franklin
11/27/11 12:52:17AM
i think Jones makes Machida look bad like he did Shogun, but i hope im wrong
kingsmasher
11/27/11 7:51:52AM
In all honesty...Machida would have a better shot beating Brock Lesner...Machida is about to get that ass whooped in all facets off MMA...

You cant be a counter puncher against a guy with a significant reach advantage...
bjj1605
11/27/11 5:31:07PM

Posted by kingsmasher

In all honesty...Machida would have a better shot beating Brock Lesner...Machida is about to get that ass whooped in all facets off MMA...

You cant be a counter puncher against a guy with a significant reach advantage...



No offense bro, but clearly you don't train.

Counter punching is the best way to negate a reach advantage. Reach is the most effective when you're moving back. That way you can dictate the distance such that the guy chasing you can't hit you while you CAN hit him (because you have longer arms.) When a tall fighter has to move forward he loses his reach advantage (trust me, I'm 6'5 and I'm not gonna chase a guy under any circumstances.)


As to the thread author, I sorta answered your question as well.

Machida is getting this shot because he is the best challenge for Jon Jones. Stylistically Jones could have a lot of problems with Machida for two reasons:

1) Machida is a counter puncher and has very good foot-work/in-and-out movement. He is going to be the most interesting striking challenge that Jones has faced so far. If things go as Machida plans, Jones will be chasing him and Machida will be choosing when to engage. If he can leap in, land a strike, and get out with out getting hit, Jones will be in for a long night. Machida is also an excellent kicker.

2) Machida has excellent take down defense, great offensive take downs, and a black belt in BJJ.


I'm with Pookie on this one and that +2 underdog bonus makes Machida a very tempting pick.

The only reason people are counting him out is because MMA fan's are fickle hype-train riders.
Pookie
11/27/11 6:16:41PM

Posted by kingsmasher

In all honesty...Machida would have a better shot beating Brock Lesner...Machida is about to get that ass whooped in all facets off MMA...

You cant be a counter puncher against a guy with a significant reach advantage...



Roy Jones Jr, Mike Tyson, Andy Souwer, Bj Penn, Cro-cop, Rampage, Machida, Fedor, Pacquiao - All counter punchers who have a reach disadvantage against most people they fought, and still had tremendous success with their style.

Defensive attributes like headmovement, blocking, reflexes, and footwork enable this style to work.

Also, it's not like Machida has to get into Jones range to strike, his leg kicks are quick and they strike from a longer range than Jones Arms. This can be countered by Jones' leg kicks, but that would require Jones to move forward, which in of itself diminishes his reach advantage in a way that is advantageous to a in-and-out fighter like Machida.

Granted, Jones could very well Mollywhop Machida. But you can absolutely counterpunch a guy with a significant reach advantage if you have the right attributes and employ the right tactics.

And Machida would beat Lesnar all day.
jfisher
11/28/11 10:28:18AM
Though I'd give strength advantage to Jones, he could get lured in by Machida and could fall to that. I'll keep my fingers crossed and I'll be watching for what interesting strategy Machida has to offer
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