Jon Jones: Trust me, Rashad Evans does not have a chin ... at all

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Jon Jones: Trust me, Rashad Evans does not have a chin ... at all
Budgellism
12/6/11 6:55:54AM
On the difficulty of a busy fight year:

" I have been training four times a day, and i rest in between training sessions. It's not like in the NFL, where you have one Super Bowl game a year, and once you play it and you win, you can breathe and relax and rest and look forward to next year. This is going to be my third Super Bowl this year and it's hard to keep that same focus and energy for each fight, but I have done it and will continue to do it."

On whether Machida, who is 1-2 in his last three fights, deserved a title shot:

"He looked great against Randy Couture, whether he deserves a title shot or not, he is Lyoto Machida, I'm happy for him. He has the name and recognition to get the title shot and now I'm here."

On people's views on him and changing as a fighter and person:

"I only mean well, a lot of things I say I can come off as arrogant, but I only mean well. I can't control the way people perceive me, it's just who I am. My ideals are just thoughts I share, I could just keep them bottled up. I realize that not everyone is going to love you. I have changed as a fighter and I do think I am the best fighter. I won't lose to Lyoto, I wont lost to Rashad or to Henderson or any other guy. Yeah I am a little cocky, and I think it's important to be that way. But I won't change as a person; I stay true to my friends, my family, Endicott, New York. But as Jonathan in the real world, anyone that has ever met me, they know I'll treat you with the upmost respect. Buy yeah; Jon Jones the fighter will beat you up."

Jones does not shy away from his religious views, proudly displaying a Philippians 4:13 tattoo on his chest:

"God has way more important things to think about than me winning a fight or Tebow winning a game, but religion is a big part of me, and if people can't accept that, then maybe I'm not meant to be that mainstream athlete."

Of course, "Bones" touched on the upcoming number one contenders fight between his former training partner Rashad Evans taking on wrestling powerhouse Phil Davis:

"It's an interesting fight. I'll go with Rashad because of the experience factor. But Phil Davis can win more than he realizes, he has to be comfortable striking. I won't say too much because I have my own ideas on how to beat Rashad, but, I don't think Rashad has a chin at all. Trust me Rashad does not have chin. But it will be a closer fight that people will realize."

LINK
emfleek
12/6/11 9:27:22AM
Pookie
12/6/11 11:14:07AM


If Rashad has no chin at all, than Davis is going to be the next Arlovski
KungFuMaster
12/6/11 11:19:09AM
"I only mean well, a lot of things I say I can come off as arrogant, but I only mean well. I can't control the way people perceive me, it's just who I am. My ideals are just thoughts I share, I could just keep them bottled up.


I still don't like Bones and probably never will but if he keeps his thoughts bottled up as he suggested, he may eventually win me in the end.
Wallass
12/6/11 11:56:04AM
Really? Says the guy who has shown no knockout power other than elbows. Dude better be focusing on Lyoto. You know that guy he's facing Saturday who BRUTALLY knocked out Rashad?
TeamDEY
12/6/11 12:21:05PM
Please Machida PLEASE shut this dude up.
Chael_Sonnen
12/6/11 12:22:30PM

Posted by Wallass

Really? Says the guy who has shown no knockout power other than elbows. Dude better be focusing on Lyoto. You know that guy he's facing Saturday who BRUTALLY knocked out Rashad?



Shogun disagrees about the first sentence. Mr. Jones did more damage in three rounds than Macheetah did for six. Not bad for "elbows".
BlueSkiesBurn
12/6/11 4:13:50PM
I agree with Jones. I have been saying it for over a year. When Rashad's KO losses start piling up, I'll be happy to pull up those who have told me I was jumping the gun or wrong.

I can't explain it, but you can just see that Rashad wasn't built to take a punch. It's not a knock on him because it's not something you can really control, but I don't really feel that he has a chin either.
FlashyG
12/6/11 4:27:48PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I agree with Jones. I have been saying it for over a year. When Rashad's KO losses start piling up, I'll be happy to pull up those who have told me I was jumping the gun or wrong.

I can't explain it, but you can just see that Rashad wasn't built to take a punch. It's not a knock on him because it's not something you can really control, but I don't really feel that he has a chin either.



The guy has 18 professional fights including some at a higher division and in his entire career he's been knocked out once.

Perhaps we have a different definition of chin, Rashad gets rocked somewhat easily, but he tends to recover quickly and often comes back to win those fights. The fact that he recovers to me is the DEFINITION of having a chin.

To me what you're saying is like saying Frankie Edgar and Big Nog have no chins.

BlueSkiesBurn
12/6/11 4:35:11PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I agree with Jones. I have been saying it for over a year. When Rashad's KO losses start piling up, I'll be happy to pull up those who have told me I was jumping the gun or wrong.

I can't explain it, but you can just see that Rashad wasn't built to take a punch. It's not a knock on him because it's not something you can really control, but I don't really feel that he has a chin either.



The guy has 18 professional fights including some at a higher division and in his entire career he's been knocked out once.

Perhaps we have a different definition of chin, Rashad gets rocked somewhat easily, but he tends to recover quickly and often comes back to win those fights. The fact that he recovers to me is the DEFINITION of having a chin.

To me what you're saying is like saying Frankie Edgar and Big Nog have no chins.




First off, it's not exactly like all 18 of those fights were against polished knockout artists. Secondly, Silva and Rampage had Rashad on the ropes, but couldn't finish due to their conditioning. Matter of fact, neither one of those guys have shown patient striking lately. Machida knocked him out because he knew he hurt him and then took his time finishing Rashad. That's really all it takes.

If you'd like a better example: Think Mike Tyson's Punchout. Machida knew that he dropped his jaw and then used the proper combo to finish him rather than just pressing buttons.

It's the same reason Cain finished Brock, but Shane couldn't. I hear comments about Brock not being able to take a punch on these threads all the time. Brock has only been finished once. Why is this true for Brock, but not true for Rashad? Both look like a fish out of water when they get popped a good punch.
Pookie
12/6/11 5:27:47PM
Chin is a subjective term, but i feel that the size of the chin correlates to the ability to keep your chin from turning, which induces unconsciousness.

So to me, Chin = The ability to not get put out by a hit, and the buffer to how much impact you can take(in a single blow) before your chin turns. So i think that Rashad has Chin. Maybe out of 20 i'd give him a 15. Goulet a 6. Frankie a 14. Brock a 16.

But there's an complementing trait, in "Toughness" that indicates how much repetitive damage you can endure before you get put out. Not knocked out, but incapable of defending yourself. Normally this is equilibrium-related. And i think thats the trait that Evans doesnt have much of. Maybe about a 12 out of 20. Frankie a 18. Brock a 15.

Brock's problem in my opinion, is that he lacks "Heart" or - how much damage you can receive before losing the will to fight. Thats where i think Brock is like a 6. Frankie about a 20, and Evans maybe a 14.


Those three attributes compose the characteristics or Durability, if we're breaking down semantics.

Seacrest out.
tcunningham
12/6/11 5:35:16PM
theres no reason for me to believe rashad doesnt have a chin. he got KO'd by lyoto, but that more proves that lyoto has serious KO power. rashad took a big shot from rampage and didnt go to sleep. i think lyoto has as a decent chance at beating jones, if anything we dont know what kind of a chin jones has.
FlashyG
12/6/11 5:44:21PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

First off, it's not exactly like all 18 of those fights were against polished knockout artists. Secondly, Silva and Rampage had Rashad on the ropes, but couldn't finish due to their conditioning. Matter of fact, neither one of those guys have shown patient striking lately. Machida knocked him out because he knew he hurt him and then took his time finishing Rashad. That's really all it takes.

If you'd like a better example: Think Mike Tyson's Punchout. Machida knew that he dropped his jaw and then used the proper combo to finish him rather than just pressing buttons.

It's the same reason Cain finished Brock, but Shane couldn't. I hear comments about Brock not being able to take a punch on these threads all the time. Brock has only been finished once. Why is this true for Brock, but not true for Rashad? Both look like a fish out of water when they get popped a good punch.



Any fighter is going to get KOed eventually if they ONLY fought polished knock out artists. He's fought enough of them for me to not question his ability to recover from being rocked. Getting rocked in the first place isn't a sign of having a weak chin, its a sign of not defending yourself very well and a sign that you're fighting guys who hit hard.

If you can make the claim that Rampage and Silva both would have finished Rashad if their cardio was better couldn't one just as easily say that Rashad only got knocked out by Machida because he didn't have his usual cardio to recover.

You can reference as many video games as you want, we're talking reality here and in reality Rashad Evans chin is just fine. In fact he has one of the better chins at LHW. IMO

BlueSkiesBurn
12/6/11 5:52:37PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

First off, it's not exactly like all 18 of those fights were against polished knockout artists. Secondly, Silva and Rampage had Rashad on the ropes, but couldn't finish due to their conditioning. Matter of fact, neither one of those guys have shown patient striking lately. Machida knocked him out because he knew he hurt him and then took his time finishing Rashad. That's really all it takes.

If you'd like a better example: Think Mike Tyson's Punchout. Machida knew that he dropped his jaw and then used the proper combo to finish him rather than just pressing buttons.

It's the same reason Cain finished Brock, but Shane couldn't. I hear comments about Brock not being able to take a punch on these threads all the time. Brock has only been finished once. Why is this true for Brock, but not true for Rashad? Both look like a fish out of water when they get popped a good punch.



Any fighter is going to get KOed eventually if they ONLY fought polished knock out artists. He's fought enough of them for me to not question his ability to recover from being rocked. Getting rocked in the first place isn't a sign of having a weak chin, its a sign of not defending yourself very well and a sign that you're fighting guys who hit hard.

If you can make the claim that Rampage and Silva both would have finished Rashad if their cardio was better couldn't one just as easily say that Rashad only got knocked out by Machida because he didn't have his usual cardio to recover.

You can reference as many video games as you want, we're talking reality here and in reality Rashad Evans chin is just fine. In fact he has one of the better chins at LHW. IMO




Time will tell which one of us is correct.
FlashyG
12/6/11 6:00:01PM
Not really, no matter how many times he gets Knocked out in the later years of his career he'll still be remembered for recovering from big shots against Silva and Rampage and winning those fights.

I don't consider him in Nog's category as far as legendary chins, but do you consider his chin weak now that he's been knocked out twice and potentially a third time if his rematch with Mir goes the same way.

I fully expect him to get knocked out if/when he fights Jones, or at least TKOed but I'll still defend his chin afterwards, he'd need to get knocked out a lot of times for me to consider him to have a weak chin.

Think Goulet, if Rashad was getting starched in less than 10 seconds you would be judged to be correct but I highly doubt thats going to happen.
BlueSkiesBurn
12/6/11 6:21:25PM

Posted by FlashyG

Not really, no matter how many times he gets Knocked out in the later years of his career he'll still be remembered for recovering from big shots against Silva and Rampage and winning those fights.

I don't consider him in Nog's category as far as legendary chins, but do you consider his chin weak now that he's been knocked out twice and potentially a third time if his rematch with Mir goes the same way.

I fully expect him to get knocked out if/when he fights Jones, or at least TKOed but I'll still defend his chin afterwards, he'd need to get knocked out a lot of times for me to consider him to have a weak chin.

Think Goulet, if Rashad was getting starched in less than 10 seconds you would be judged to be correct but I highly doubt thats going to happen.



I don't necessarily think that the duration of the fight has anything to do with it. A fight can completely go the distance without a damn thing landing (see Starnes vs. Quarry) and that doesn't mean a fighter has a great chin. If power punches begin knocking out Rashad, he will likely head down the path of a fighter who can't take a punch.

I fully expect to see the majority of his losses come via T/KO. I can't explain it, but when I see Rashad take a huge punch, he has this vacant expression on his face like his lights have been turned out. It's unlike I have seen from any other fighter. I realize that other fighters have taken big shots and recovered, just as Rashad has, but Rashad just has a different look on his face when they land.

All I can say, is that it's enough for people to notice it and look to put him out.
tn_rebel
12/6/11 6:31:53PM
You guys must have better memories than I do, cause all I can remember about Rampage vs. Rashad is them hugging each other for 15 min. And when your the baddest dude on the planet (Mr. Jones) you can pretty much say whatever you want. Jordan had haters too. Haters gonna hate!
FlashyG
12/6/11 6:34:11PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

If power punches begin knocking out Rashad, he will likely head down the path of a fighter who can't take a punch.

I fully expect to see the majority of his losses come via T/KO. I can't explain it, but when I see Rashad take a huge punch, he has this vacant expression on his face like his lights have been turned out. It's unlike I have seen from any other fighter. I realize that other fighters have taken big shots and recovered, just as Rashad has, but Rashad just has a different look on his face when they land.

All I can say, is that it's enough for people to notice it and look to put him out.



IF, Likely? I thought he already had no chin, now you're arguing he'll lose his chin? That I can agree with, every fighter does, but thats not what you were saying a few posts ago.

As far as the look in his eyes, thats really only slightly more relevant than your punch out reference. How exactly do you interpret a "look in someone's eye" through your TV screen and assess his ability to take a punch without any evidence of him actually getting knocked out?

I really think that you're letting the greatest knockout face in the history of the sport influence your opinion of the fighter, I don't think you're alone though.

BlueSkiesBurn
12/6/11 6:46:42PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

If power punches begin knocking out Rashad, he will likely head down the path of a fighter who can't take a punch.

I fully expect to see the majority of his losses come via T/KO. I can't explain it, but when I see Rashad take a huge punch, he has this vacant expression on his face like his lights have been turned out. It's unlike I have seen from any other fighter. I realize that other fighters have taken big shots and recovered, just as Rashad has, but Rashad just has a different look on his face when they land.

All I can say, is that it's enough for people to notice it and look to put him out.



IF, Likely? I thought he already had no chin, now you're arguing he'll lose his chin? That I can agree with, every fighter does, but thats not what you were saying a few posts ago.

As far as the look in his eyes, thats really only slightly more relevant than your punch out reference. How exactly do you interpret a "look in someone's eye" through your TV screen and assess his ability to take a punch without any evidence of him actually getting knocked out?

I really think that you're letting the greatest knockout face in the history of the sport influence your opinion of the fighter, I don't think you're alone though.




Here's the problem; I have seen that face 2 after Machida did it. And no, this is the greatest knockout face in the history of the sport, at least to me.



okay, nevermind, I was reminded why Rashad's was better.

FlashyG
12/6/11 10:06:19PM
haha, Arlovski's was pretty memorable as well, so was Bispings vs Hendo
Shawn91111
12/6/11 11:24:42PM
Rashad has a pretty good chin, he stood with Bisping for 3 full rounds for gods sake.
FR33B1RD
12/7/11 12:37:24PM
Yeah, Rashad's chin isnt so great but what gets him through fights is his recovery and resiliance after getting hit and only the best strikers with the takedown defense are going to be able to finish Rashad by KO, like Shogun, Machida (again), Jones, Hendo.

And I love how Jones answers the question on whether Machida deserves the title shot. He gives credit to Machida saying, "well he knocked out Rashad and was an undefeated champion" and he didnt mention that Lyoto arguably should have a win over Rampage so that 1-1 record after losing the title goes to 2-0 since losing the title.
Adrenaline
12/8/11 2:27:28AM

Posted by Shawn91111

Rashad has a pretty good chin, he stood with Bisping for 3 full rounds for gods sake.



And we have a winner
bjj1605
12/9/11 1:51:42AM

Posted by FlashyG

Not really, no matter how many times he gets Knocked out in the later years of his career he'll still be remembered for recovering from big shots against Silva and Rampage and winning those fights.

I don't consider him in Nog's category as far as legendary chins, but do you consider his chin weak now that he's been knocked out twice and potentially a third time if his rematch with Mir goes the same way.

I fully expect him to get knocked out if/when he fights Jones, or at least TKOed but I'll still defend his chin afterwards, he'd need to get knocked out a lot of times for me to consider him to have a weak chin.

Think Goulet, if Rashad was getting starched in less than 10 seconds you would be judged to be correct but I highly doubt thats going to happen.



I think you hit the nail on the head in your first post. You guys define "CHIN" differently.

For him BlueSkies its just how well you can take a punch (I agree with that definition).

For you, chin includes resilience and/or recovery. Nothing wrong with defining it that way.

Personally I'd say he's got no chin but good recovery.
BuffaloDave
12/10/11 11:43:30PM

Posted by Wallass

Really? Says the guy who has shown no knockout power other than elbows. Dude better be focusing on Lyoto. You know that guy he's facing Saturday who BRUTALLY knocked out Rashad?



I think he proved tonight that those elbows are all he needs for KO power, look what just 1 elbow did to Machida's forehead.
Pookie
12/11/11 5:54:13AM
I think its right to doubt Jon Jones' chin comparatively.

Lets assume Jones is right.

1. Rashad does not have a chin... at all
2. Rashad's chin was tested by Machida, he took many blows and suffered a KO loss when Machida tee'd off.
3. Jones takes few punches, staggers. Claims he proved he has a good chin to the doubters.

By Jones logic, I'm not sure how he can think his Chin is good, and Rashad's chin is terrible, when comparitively the effects seem to be similar across the one opponent who has been the most successful.
ncordless
12/11/11 7:03:46AM
I don't think the ACs would let Evans fight if he was missing his chin.
ncordless
12/11/11 7:17:46AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by FlashyG


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

If power punches begin knocking out Rashad, he will likely head down the path of a fighter who can't take a punch.

I fully expect to see the majority of his losses come via T/KO. I can't explain it, but when I see Rashad take a huge punch, he has this vacant expression on his face like his lights have been turned out. It's unlike I have seen from any other fighter. I realize that other fighters have taken big shots and recovered, just as Rashad has, but Rashad just has a different look on his face when they land.

All I can say, is that it's enough for people to notice it and look to put him out.



IF, Likely? I thought he already had no chin, now you're arguing he'll lose his chin? That I can agree with, every fighter does, but thats not what you were saying a few posts ago.

As far as the look in his eyes, thats really only slightly more relevant than your punch out reference. How exactly do you interpret a "look in someone's eye" through your TV screen and assess his ability to take a punch without any evidence of him actually getting knocked out?

I really think that you're letting the greatest knockout face in the history of the sport influence your opinion of the fighter, I don't think you're alone though.




Here's the problem; I have seen that face 2 after Machida did it. And no, this is the greatest knockout face in the history of the sport, at least to me.



okay, nevermind, I was reminded why Rashad's was better.


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