Is Jon Jones Too Dominant for Intriguing Title Fights?

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Poor_Franklin
9/27/11 3:45:00PM
bloody elbow article

This article poses a question a lot of people have been insinuating or thinking themselves.

i know he has been very dominant, but isn't it kind of funny that a division considered one of the stoutest in the UFC is already being talked about as if it were the WW under GSP or the MW under Anderson when Jones hasn't even ran the gauntlet yet?

I agree he will be a favorite in his future fights, as he should, but isn't it just a little early to be talking about him as if he will never lose?

He was once called the Lebron James of the UFC, which i find funny, bc although he has fought for belts & under pressure, that pressure is only going to grow. I don't think he will crumble, but I didnt think Lebron would either.

I'm on the Jon Jones Bandwagon, just think it's a little early for all this unbeatable talk
postman
9/27/11 3:53:37PM
There are so many match ups his chin is still not tested. I didn't think he looked amazing agianst Page. His striking isn't super fast its very long but for some reason I think Machida could give him trouble. I also wouldn't hate to see Shogun on a streak with no layoff go back in there and test Jons legs. I really do not think he would even touch Andersons face at all his punches just seem too slow. But there is no doubting the fact that he is a freak and a top talent in the sport hes young and only getting better.
ghandikush
9/27/11 4:02:43PM
His chin looked solid to me. To be honesst he looked like he had a really tough time with Rampage in the clinch which makes sense and he took a long time to put Rampage away. So probably actually his toughest fight to date.

As far as the fight, it was fucking intriguing. Just because Rampage had very little chance to win doesnt mean that watching Jones' assault on him wasnt great.
jjeans
9/27/11 4:06:46PM
I don't care how dominant he is or how dominant he has been, the LHW is so stacked, until he beats Machida, Evans, Davis and Henderson he isn't too dominant. I don't care if he manhandles 3 of them, he'll need to be in a position like GSP and Silva where all that's left are rematches before I call him dominant.
Chael_Sonnen
9/27/11 4:16:31PM
Anybody can get Matt Serra'd on any given day.......with that being said, I don't see Bones losing for a looooong time......if ever.
Poor_Franklin
9/27/11 4:20:31PM
i think Phil Davis, w/ more improvement, would be a great fight for jones.
grappler0000
9/27/11 4:26:09PM
I haven't read the article, but there's a difference between Jones and GSP or Silva. As good as GSP is, he had to climb back up the mountain after slipping down twice. Anderson has shown weaknesses in a couple of his fights...not only that, but has been dominated until he made an amazing comeback. All the credit in the world for winning no matter what...but neither have just ran through the competition like Jones has. Jones dominates the competition in every aspect, just like GSP does, but hasn't really shown that he can be beat. Jones is finishing top talent, just like Anderson, but isn't showing the same chinks in his armor in the process. If GSP hadn't lost to Hughes or Serra, his praise would've come much earlier. If Anderson hadn't almost lost to Travis Lutter, his praise would've been sooner as well...and losing 4.5 rounds to Chael makes him look human again, at least to the right style matchup. Don't get me wrong...I'd still like to see what Rashad, Hendo, and Lyoto can do, but in reality, Lyoto is really the only one bringing something new to the table. I'd say two of his most difficult tests are in the rear-view mirror and he passed with flying colors. On paper, he hasn't earned the praise that he is receiving, but anyone who has watched his fights would be hard-pressed to deny him the credit.

Edit: As far as Davis goes, he easily has 2 years of hard work in front of him before I'd give him a chance against Jones. He has the proper foundation to work from, but hasn't shown the same understanding and mastery of new techniques that Jon has shown.
Gladiator
9/27/11 4:30:20PM
I think there are plenty of interesting matchups left for him, but I wouldnt be too surprised to see him dominate those fights as well. Most of his opponents so far have had a freestyle wrestling/ heavy-handed boxing style, which jones appears to be kryptonite to. Shogun was an interesting matchup but shogun didnt look himself at all in that fight, the layoff mightve had something to do with that. Hendo makes for an interesting match imo cuz he has a greco wrestling background, he will probably be way outsized but at least it would be someone who has a similar background to jones. Machida is also a good fight cuz he is so good at leaping in and out, which could possibly give jones trouble. At this point tho the only person I would pick to beat jones would be anderson because his striking is on a higher level, but that level gap is decreasing as jones gets older so in a few years i wouldnt even pick anderson against him. All these matchups are intriguing to me tho and until jones carves his way through these challengers i wouldnt consider him Too Dominant.
Poor_Franklin
9/27/11 4:31:00PM
let's be honest. jon jones didnt need a spy to tell him ramp was going to stand in front of him, box, & try to land a big one.

rampage was never going to win that fight bc rampage was never going to change his game up from any other fight he's had in the last couple of years.

rampage is dangerous, but never stood a chance.

time will only tell if any other fighter jones comes across will stand a chance either

i personally hope if jones runs through the big lhws, he takes that big frame up to HW & challenges some of those guys. put some meat on those legs of his & let his body grow into a naturally bigger size over time & he could prove to be a force at HW too
ChrisSabal
9/27/11 4:33:39PM
I don't know about you guys but I like the dominant aspect of a champion. I think it makes that title fight much more interesting because you are watching really to see that champion lose.

Also with that being said, I also like to see that dominant champ fight as a lot of the time their performances are very exciting to watch. From Anderson vs Forrest, Belfort, and Okami and more. It was also exciting seeing him getting his butt handed to him by Chael as well. It never set in while I was watching the fight that Silva could lose and once he pulled off that submission it was, to me, like watching a 21 point comeback in football.

I also agree with everyone who says it is too early to tell. Jones has demolished everyone he has fought yeah but he hasn't fought a Rashad type fighter or a Machida type fighter. Do I see him losing to them? Not really, but he still needs to fight them to get the Anderson/GSP status.

I think out of the '3' dominant champs UFC should be worried about it should be GSP. Yes he does have the nice guy approach and hard worker approach but his fights, most of the time, are just plain boring. I think that is less compelling to a fan is knowing exactly what GSP is going to do in a fight which is wrestle.



Poor_Franklin
9/27/11 4:33:43PM

Posted by grappler0000

I haven't read the article



it isn't important =)
kingsmasher
9/27/11 5:05:26PM
I am betting Cormier goes down and is the best test for Jones.Hes the head wrestling coach at AKA...his stand up seems to be improving and he spars with Cain Velasquez daily.....

Phil Davis aint never gonna be close IMO...Why? his striking is soome of the worst I have seen even after hes been training...He needs a Duke Roufus!!

Thing I been saying is this if Jones is threatened in the standup he can use his reach to put his hands on you and clinch then out wrestle you...he doesnt get hit...The guys that can wrestle well simply lack stand up so he uses his reach...

Man u guys need to listen to what Jon Jones says at post conference after Rampage the guy with Greg Jackson more than likely will become a bit more complacent in some fights...I see him using his reach against Rashad adn his TDD is awesome...You should watch his early fights when he started and guys tried taking him down..

They didnt know he would be champ and his balance is like BJ Penn...Why? because his big feet...Machida sitting back will get picked apart with front kicks...He doesnt attack...He cant wrestle hes ok at takedowns but Jones is gonna beat him too....Jones is teh Anderson Silva of LHW...

He will get Matt Serrad one day but then will win the belt back...
FlashyG
9/27/11 5:33:03PM
Professional sports can change so quickly that I wouldn't feel comfortable claiming anyone is that dominant.

all it takes is one injury in training or during a fight that requires some kind of surgery and you could come out of it a different fighter both physically and mentally.

Thats a long shot though so I think its fair to say he's the most dominating fighter I've seen thus far in MMA, but far from the most accomplished.
grappler0000
9/27/11 5:56:56PM

Posted by FlashyG

...he's the most dominating fighter I've seen thus far in MMA, but far from the most accomplished.



This pretty much sums it up.
Poor_Franklin
9/27/11 6:47:17PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by FlashyG

...he's the most dominating fighter I've seen thus far in MMA, but far from the most accomplished.



This pretty much sums it up.



nailed it!
KungFuMaster
9/27/11 8:03:55PM
Bones strike me as a very amateur fighter. He moves like an amateur and he does things like most amateurs. Flying scissor kicks, spinning elbows, crouching tiger moves etc.

The two things which have been carrying him this far are his wrestling and his ridiculous reach advantage. I give him the wrestling - that is something he studied and learned from hard work.

Put Anderson Silva or Machida in front of him to contest his reach and you will see what I mean. Anderson and Machida will more than likely make the kid seem human.

On the ground, Anderson's guard is life draining on top opponents. On the feet, Anderson is almost untouchable.

Machida is fast and can move in and out. He has phenomenal take down defenses.

Realistically, it does not have to be Machida or Silva. It could be a 6'4" Maurice Smith and this 6'4" Maurice Smith should be able to get the job done.

In my bizarre mind, Bones is only champion due to default whereby nobody has yet to contest his reach. Mark my words - once Jones' reach has been contested, you will see a fearful fighter, one who is no longer sure of himself.
mrsmiley
9/27/11 8:09:06PM
Too early to tell.
So many guys climb up the ranks it's hard telling who else in the division is a sleeping giant.
KungFuMaster
9/27/11 8:14:41PM
And before someone calls me out on it and compares Jones to guys like Struve, I will simply say this..

Struve does not have a strong wrestling base and he is very foolish and does not know how to use his reach advantage like Jones.
kingsmasher
9/28/11 11:25:53AM
Bones is an amateur fighter? Seriously....Man go back and watch his post figth speech about how he approached Rampage and you will know how Greg Jackson has him fighting like a professional....

I hope this is off the cuff and you dont like Jones but he has fought guys and used his strengths to their weakness...

As for Struve Jones has a longer reach...Struve is as coordinated as a baby giraffe when its born...

Machida style wise cant touch Jones...Why do not people see this...Machida likes to counter with his head back..>That will play really well into Jones game plan....He can throw kicks from long range....He gets close Jones will take him down...

Lets be honest here too Silva is good on his back but thats a really weak division...Its been said....He wont look good on his back with a guy with a long body like Jones on top..

I love Jones he does what I been telling people all along...If you get on someone use elbows if in their guard...Whatever an elbow of Jones hits its gonna hurt...Arms, bone or whatever....You think its just a myth..

Anderson Silva said himself he doesnt see Jones losing for a long time...

But still people here and everywhere want to hate on him...I understand that...but what has Rua said? Rampage? that Bones is the best they have faced...

Only person that can beat a Jnes type is a superior wrestler...THATS IT...It aint gonna happen on teh feet unless hes Matt Serrad...and those odds are miniscule...
prophecy033
9/28/11 12:20:20PM

Posted by kingsmasher

Bones is an amateur fighter? Seriously....Man go back and watch his post figth speech about how he approached Rampage and you will know how Greg Jackson has him fighting like a professional....

I hope this is off the cuff and you dont like Jones but he has fought guys and used his strengths to their weakness...

As for Struve Jones has a longer reach...Struve is as coordinated as a baby giraffe when its born...

Machida style wise cant touch Jones...Why do not people see this...Machida likes to counter with his head back..>That will play really well into Jones game plan....He can throw kicks from long range....He gets close Jones will take him down...

Lets be honest here too Silva is good on his back but thats a really weak division...Its been said....He wont look good on his back with a guy with a long body like Jones on top..

I love Jones he does what I been telling people all along...If you get on someone use elbows if in their guard...Whatever an elbow of Jones hits its gonna hurt...Arms, bone or whatever....You think its just a myth..

Anderson Silva said himself he doesnt see Jones losing for a long time...

But still people here and everywhere want to hate on him...I understand that...but what has Rua said? Rampage? that Bones is the best they have faced...

Only person that can beat a Jnes type is a superior wrestler...THATS IT...It aint gonna happen on teh feet unless hes Matt Serrad...and those odds are miniscule...

with most of this
Boo_Radley21
9/28/11 1:09:16PM
I can see where you're coming from with him dominating resulting in less intriguing fights, but to be honest I think that does the opposite for me. Same with St. Pierre. They're so dominant that I always watch their fights and am always excited because I can't wait to see how they're going to tool the next up and comer who has looked unstoppable against the rest of the division.. GSP did it to Fitch, Alves, Koscheck and Shields, just dominated them completely. How is that not intriguing when the guy can't be touched by the rest of the top 5 of the division?

And Jones especially because of how bad he makes everyone look. I couldn't wait for that Rampage fight to see if he would be able to throw him around and outclass him standing up like he has to everyone else. A really close title fight is great too though get me wrong, I just don't have any problem with seeing a guy beat the shit out of everyone he faces.
kingsmasher
9/28/11 1:25:48PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by FlashyG

...he's the most dominating fighter I've seen thus far in MMA, but far from the most accomplished.



This pretty much sums it up.



nailed it!




I can agree with this...If you could make a MMA fighter in a lab for teh LHW division thoguh...ID take Jones reach and wrestling..and creativity....his standup will improve....but really with a reach and wrestling I dont see the need for Anderson Silva like accuracy...If somoene comes along and has the same reach and wrestling we may have a fight....but thats very few and far between and more than likely playing basketball or football making a lot more money...

I want to see Jones Brother whos shown an interest but I know he wont as long as he has football...
ncordless
9/28/11 1:30:39PM

Posted by FlashyG

Professional sports can change so quickly that I wouldn't feel comfortable claiming anyone is that dominant.

all it takes is one injury in training or during a fight that requires some kind of surgery and you could come out of it a different fighter both physically and mentally.

Thats a long shot though so I think its fair to say he's the most dominating fighter I've seen thus far in MMA, but far from the most accomplished.



I agree that he is not the most accomplished, but wouldn't say that he is all that far from it. Looking at who he has beat so far, it wouldn't take very long for his resume to be just as good if not better than GSP's or Anderson's. His two first two championship fights against Shogun and Rampage stack up pretty favorably to Anderson (Franklin/Marquardt) and GSP (Hughes/Serra). If he beat Rashad and Machida, that would be the most impressive string of 4 championship wins I can think of in MMA history. GSP's victories over Fitch, Penn, and Alves are pretty impressive, but they are book-ended by wins over Serra and Hardy.

I think the most crucial development in Jones's game of late has been his composure. Since that Hamill fight, and especially against Shogun and Rampage, he has had such masterful control of each fight, taking what he wants when he wants it.
Pookie
9/28/11 2:16:18PM
I think Finishing Rampage and Shogun is more impressive than Decisioning Fitch, Alves, and Koscheck.

Jones Resume is already more stacked than most of the entire sport.
Boo_Radley21
9/29/11 1:06:01PM

Posted by Pookie

I think Finishing Rampage and Shogun is more impressive than Decisioning Fitch, Alves, and Koscheck.

Jones Resume is already more stacked than most of the entire sport.



and being in arguably the most talented division in the UFC it's not going to get any easier for him.
KungFuMaster
9/30/11 11:45:28AM

Posted by kingsmasher

Bones is an amateur fighter? Seriously....Man go back and watch his post figth speech about how he approached Rampage and you will know how Greg Jackson has him fighting like a professional....

I hope this is off the cuff and you dont like Jones but he has fought guys and used his strengths to their weakness...

As for Struve Jones has a longer reach...Struve is as coordinated as a baby giraffe when its born...

Machida style wise cant touch Jones...Why do not people see this...Machida likes to counter with his head back..>That will play really well into Jones game plan....He can throw kicks from long range....He gets close Jones will take him down...

Lets be honest here too Silva is good on his back but thats a really weak division...Its been said....He wont look good on his back with a guy with a long body like Jones on top..

I love Jones he does what I been telling people all along...If you get on someone use elbows if in their guard...Whatever an elbow of Jones hits its gonna hurt...Arms, bone or whatever....You think its just a myth..

Anderson Silva said himself he doesnt see Jones losing for a long time...

But still people here and everywhere want to hate on him...I understand that...but what has Rua said? Rampage? that Bones is the best they have faced...

Only person that can beat a Jnes type is a superior wrestler...THATS IT...It aint gonna happen on teh feet unless hes Matt Serrad...and those odds are miniscule...



How do respond to this so I don't start anything?

I think he is young as a fighter and has a lot of potential. I don't know how much combat sports you have watched but speaking from my own personal experience, rookies do a lot of crazy and unorthodox moves. I will admit Jones knows how to win fights but he is still a rookie. He possesses the mind of a rookie. In the Rampage fight, Jones did a few crazy moves which nearly got him KO. If he was to fight like that with someone of similar reach as his, you can be sure he will be tagged.



kingsmasher
9/30/11 1:55:42PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by kingsmasher

Bones is an amateur fighter? Seriously....Man go back and watch his post figth speech about how he approached Rampage and you will know how Greg Jackson has him fighting like a professional....

I hope this is off the cuff and you dont like Jones but he has fought guys and used his strengths to their weakness...

As for Struve Jones has a longer reach...Struve is as coordinated as a baby giraffe when its born...

Machida style wise cant touch Jones...Why do not people see this...Machida likes to counter with his head back..>That will play really well into Jones game plan....He can throw kicks from long range....He gets close Jones will take him down...

Lets be honest here too Silva is good on his back but thats a really weak division...Its been said....He wont look good on his back with a guy with a long body like Jones on top..

I love Jones he does what I been telling people all along...If you get on someone use elbows if in their guard...Whatever an elbow of Jones hits its gonna hurt...Arms, bone or whatever....You think its just a myth..

Anderson Silva said himself he doesnt see Jones losing for a long time...

But still people here and everywhere want to hate on him...I understand that...but what has Rua said? Rampage? that Bones is the best they have faced...

Only person that can beat a Jnes type is a superior wrestler...THATS IT...It aint gonna happen on teh feet unless hes Matt Serrad...and those odds are miniscule...



How do respond to this so I don't start anything?

I think he is young as a fighter and has a lot of potential. I don't know how much combat sports you have watched but speaking from my own personal experience, rookies do a lot of crazy and unorthodox moves. I will admit Jones knows how to win fights but he is still a rookie. He possesses the mind of a rookie. In the Rampage fight, Jones did a few crazy moves which nearly got him KO. If he was to fight like that with someone of similar reach as his, you can be sure he will be tagged.






Whats funny about your statement is someone with similar reach as Jones...Where is this guy at? Stefan Struve?

well in that case...you arent making sense...Lets talk who is fighting now...not what might appear out of thin air...and I disagree about this crazy moves that almost got Jones KOed in the rampage fight...You defintiely didnt watch the fight...rampage landed 10 punches...None did any damage...theres wasnt any almost that I saw...please point out Rd and time...
kingsmasher
9/30/11 2:07:15PM

Posted by Pookie

I think Finishing Rampage and Shogun is more impressive than Decisioning Fitch, Alves, and Koscheck.

Jones Resume is already more stacked than most of the entire sport.




Does it also beat Fitch, Alves, Koscheck and the Ultimate Dan Hardy? lmao

Whats messed up is the UFC matchmaking imo...im not big on Joe Silva....This Brennaman and Johnson fight...I would ratehr see Johnson on teh shelf and lined up to fight GSP...Then Diaz...Diaz Penn is ridiculous...Penn beats Diaz and then penn gets a shot will be boring....

If Diaz wins this I will be shocked but I would rather see GSP fight more and I am sure he could if given the opportunity...
KungFuMaster
9/30/11 2:57:13PM

Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by kingsmasher

Bones is an amateur fighter? Seriously....Man go back and watch his post figth speech about how he approached Rampage and you will know how Greg Jackson has him fighting like a professional....

I hope this is off the cuff and you dont like Jones but he has fought guys and used his strengths to their weakness...

As for Struve Jones has a longer reach...Struve is as coordinated as a baby giraffe when its born...

Machida style wise cant touch Jones...Why do not people see this...Machida likes to counter with his head back..>That will play really well into Jones game plan....He can throw kicks from long range....He gets close Jones will take him down...

Lets be honest here too Silva is good on his back but thats a really weak division...Its been said....He wont look good on his back with a guy with a long body like Jones on top..

I love Jones he does what I been telling people all along...If you get on someone use elbows if in their guard...Whatever an elbow of Jones hits its gonna hurt...Arms, bone or whatever....You think its just a myth..

Anderson Silva said himself he doesnt see Jones losing for a long time...

But still people here and everywhere want to hate on him...I understand that...but what has Rua said? Rampage? that Bones is the best they have faced...

Only person that can beat a Jnes type is a superior wrestler...THATS IT...It aint gonna happen on teh feet unless hes Matt Serrad...and those odds are miniscule...



How do respond to this so I don't start anything?

I think he is young as a fighter and has a lot of potential. I don't know how much combat sports you have watched but speaking from my own personal experience, rookies do a lot of crazy and unorthodox moves. I will admit Jones knows how to win fights but he is still a rookie. He possesses the mind of a rookie. In the Rampage fight, Jones did a few crazy moves which nearly got him KO. If he was to fight like that with someone of similar reach as his, you can be sure he will be tagged.






Whats funny about your statement is someone with similar reach as Jones...Where is this guy at? Stefan Struve?

well in that case...you arent making sense...Lets talk who is fighting now...not what might appear out of thin air...and I disagree about this crazy moves that almost got Jones KOed in the rampage fight...You defintiely didnt watch the fight...rampage landed 10 punches...None did any damage...theres wasnt any almost that I saw...please point out Rd and time...



I saw the fight. There was a moment in one round where Jones was doing some figure skating moves which could have resulted in the following if he pestered any longer.

Rampage vs Jones
Boo_Radley21
9/30/11 3:10:46PM

Posted by kingsmasher


Posted by Pookie

I think Finishing Rampage and Shogun is more impressive than Decisioning Fitch, Alves, and Koscheck.

Jones Resume is already more stacked than most of the entire sport.




Does it also beat Fitch, Alves, Koscheck and the Ultimate Dan Hardy? lmao

Whats messed up is the UFC matchmaking imo...im not big on Joe Silva....This Brennaman and Johnson fight...I would ratehr see Johnson on teh shelf and lined up to fight GSP...Then Diaz...Diaz Penn is ridiculous...Penn beats Diaz and then penn gets a shot will be boring....

If Diaz wins this I will be shocked but I would rather see GSP fight more and I am sure he could if given the opportunity...



I agree about Johnson give him some easy wins and a fight with GSP he's a unique style and probably the biggest guy in the division with some of the best striking. Plus he's intimidating and it would definitely be marketable. Hell they should give Johnson the loser of Diaz and Penn. I think he'd whoop on Diaz, Penn would put up more of a fight.
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