Jesse Taylor and general TUF7 disappointment

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Mastodon2
5/31/08 7:28:58PM
Am I the only one completely unimpressed by Jesse Taylor? He is currently winning fights on TUF, but my god he is boring! He is the definition of a LnP fighter, but talks about wanting to have more exciting fights, but I'm just not convinced.

This series is really devoid of interesting fighters, I was hoping for an injection of flair into the MW division, but so far I've been totally let down by the season's fighters, Jesse Taylor espescially!

Anyone else feeling that this season lacks exciting fighters?
Twenty20Dollars
5/31/08 7:30:49PM
yeah somewhat, no one is really standing out at this point besides CB, who i dont like.
Mastodon2
5/31/08 7:38:03PM
CB is good, doesnt really excite me but he is clearly the most talented guy there, but I'm not sure how he will fare even against the lower tier MW fighters in the UFC. No one on this show has even hald a chance against Anderson.

EDIT: Amir Sadollah also has some of the worst Muay Thai I've ever seen. 4 years training? Who the hell has he been training with?!

He has the worst flying knee I've ever seen, and he uses it over and over like he is Remy Bonjasky, except he is clearly not!
dannyfrank
5/31/08 7:49:53PM
yeah, i'm not really impressed by any of the fighters this season either, not even CB. i think that it's funny that dana said at the beginning of the season that they finally had all 16 fighters deserving to be there, when this season clearly has the least talented set of fighters on it
Twenty20Dollars
5/31/08 8:17:42PM
yeah that is another thing about TUF having sooo many seasons, is that it could start loosing talent in their fighters that are on the show. I mean i like watching TUF but i think it needs to stop after season 8.
Pitbull09
5/31/08 8:54:05PM
They always have a dominating wrestler in the mix. It helps eliminate guys who cant beat one dimensional guys and shows in the end that that style beats strength when he gets farther in the tournament.

Examples- Tommy Speer, Matt Hamil, Jesse Taylor (Soon), and Kos (he choce to become a MMA fighter after that show however and learn more)
NatedawgThaM
5/31/08 9:02:09PM
OMFG, Jessie Taylor does NOT LNP.

Just because he's not Tito Ortiz and throwing bombs in guard does not mean he LNPs. This is the exact same undeserved crap Sean Sherk gets. They works, they throw short punches. Just because they don't use all their energy to throw bombs and finish the fight does not mean they LNP.

There's the huge difference between LNP and GNP and it's dumb because even half the "knowledgeable" MMA fans don't even know the difference.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
5/31/08 9:10:19PM
I hear the same stuff every single tuf. not impressive blah blah blah. no1 is forcing you to watch. People said the same about sanchez , koschek , griffin , bonnar , stevenson etc. IF you saw tuf 1 , koschek's lay and pray was far more boring then jesse taylors. Jesse delivers some serious damage. Look at dante's face after their fight. Jesse also got mike in a rear naked choke. Give them some time before you be so judgmental.
F--K_Luck_AuH2O
5/31/08 9:13:18PM
Jesse Taylor lost to my buddy Jesse Forbes.

AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
5/31/08 11:34:08PM
keep in mind jesse forbes was a light heavy weight on the show. JEsse taylor with proper eating habits could make 170. most of the fighters who fight in the ufc from the show have droped a weight class.
bigbubbano23
6/1/08 1:10:58AM
if cb wins i will not watch tuf ever again! ah who am i kidin iam not gonna watch next season as is.
Mastodon2
6/1/08 6:00:57AM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

OMFG, Jessie Taylor does NOT LNP.

Just because he's not Tito Ortiz and throwing bombs in guard does not mean he LNPs. This is the exact same undeserved crap Sean Sherk gets. They works, they throw short punches. Just because they don't use all their energy to throw bombs and finish the fight does not mean they LNP.

There's the huge difference between LNP and GNP and it's dumb because even half the "knowledgeable" MMA fans don't even know the difference.



Jesse was throwing little mitten fists and not making much of an effort to advance position, he spent most of his fight against Dante in Dante's guard. Very boring, his slow pawing at Dante's face was not going to finish the fight, not like say, Fedor, who really destroys people with GnP. Obviously Fedor is on a level that Taylor will never get to, but I'm only comparing intentions here.
ncordless
6/1/08 1:41:41PM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

OMFG, Jessie Taylor does NOT LNP.

Just because he's not Tito Ortiz and throwing bombs in guard does not mean he LNPs. This is the exact same undeserved crap Sean Sherk gets. They works, they throw short punches. Just because they don't use all their energy to throw bombs and finish the fight does not mean they LNP.

There's the huge difference between LNP and GNP and it's dumb because even half the "knowledgeable" MMA fans don't even know the difference.



Umm, not to be a dick... but since you were one here it goes.

LnP is exactly what you described.... not trying to finish the fight from top position.

GnP is when a fighter is actively trying to finish the fight from top position.


Neither of these terms is set in stone, and "knowledgeable" fans can have a differing opinion. But the difference between the two is a lack of aggresion in any top position.
mkiv9secsupra
6/1/08 2:47:26PM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by NatedawgThaM

OMFG, Jessie Taylor does NOT LNP.

Just because he's not Tito Ortiz and throwing bombs in guard does not mean he LNPs. This is the exact same undeserved crap Sean Sherk gets. They works, they throw short punches. Just because they don't use all their energy to throw bombs and finish the fight does not mean they LNP.

There's the huge difference between LNP and GNP and it's dumb because even half the "knowledgeable" MMA fans don't even know the difference.



Umm, not to be a dick... but since you were one here it goes.

LnP is exactly what you described.... not trying to finish the fight from top position.

GnP is when a fighter is actively trying to finish the fight from top position.


Neither of these terms is set in stone, and "knowledgeable" fans can have a differing opinion. But the difference between the two is a lack of aggresion in any top position.



i agree with you on terms of what LnP and GnP are but i disagree he isnt trying to finish the fight. He tries but he lacks the skills/experience required to finish some of these fighters. he tried for the rear naked choke a lot but he just hasnt had the full tutorial of the submission game and cant get it on more experienced fighters. Trying to finish with utter failure vs not doing anything at all is the subjective thing with him and quite a few fighters.
nickcuc547
6/1/08 2:57:25PM
agree, i didn't think it was possible for the talent to be worse than season 6, but season 7 has pulled it off with the exception of crueder and cb dollaway.
Rush
6/1/08 3:12:09PM
I've been saying it since the first episode and every time I watch a random episode I am just further convinced. Almost all of these guys on this season are lacking, not just MMA skills, but basic martial arts skills.

Mastodon, I am glad you mentioned Amir. I will be the first to admit I know little about the stand-up game, but I was appalled when I saw him strike (after hearing he had 4-5 years of MT experience).

As I mentioned in another thread about TUF7, a lot of these guys are lacking general grappling sense with respect to body positioning and movement. Their ground games seem very shallow in that I see many opportunities for basic submission attempts or guard passes that don't even get attempted. I can tell you that I learned more about MMA in one GSP seminar than some of these guys know. How do I know? Because they not doing things that they should supposed to be doing (basic things) and you can hear their corners screaming at them to do them.

I think I have figured it out. I think the lack of REAL talent on TUF comes from three different aspects of the show.

1 - The UFC wants to build these guys up from scratch. Ok fine. However, it makes little to no sense for this to happen and have Dana White say that only the best guys fight in the UFC.

2 - The UFC chooses people to be on the show more for the show than for their talent. For example, my sister in-law is a very talented clothing designer. She was fresh out of school, had awards and a show under her belt. Not a bad resume for being a student. She tried out for a TV show (Project Runway Canada) and got only to the interview stage. I read from a couple sources that the casting for that particular show was extended because they were having trouble finding real talent. Well, when it came time for the show to air, most of the contestants were jokes. They had no talent or skill whatsoever. In fact, it was so bad, my sister in-law felt relieved she didn't get picked for the show.

3 - Maybe a number of skilled and respectable fighters don't want to go on the show. You notice that a lot of people on TUF (later seasons for sure) say that they quit their job and left their life behind to be on the show? That tells me that there wasn't anything (much) there to begin with. Maybe the more skilled up-and-comers already they feel they have a sense of stability that's not worth risking being on the show.
NatedawgThaM
6/2/08 10:23:12PM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by NatedawgThaM

OMFG, Jessie Taylor does NOT LNP.

Just because he's not Tito Ortiz and throwing bombs in guard does not mean he LNPs. This is the exact same undeserved crap Sean Sherk gets. They works, they throw short punches. Just because they don't use all their energy to throw bombs and finish the fight does not mean they LNP.

There's the huge difference between LNP and GNP and it's dumb because even half the "knowledgeable" MMA fans don't even know the difference.



Umm, not to be a dick... but since you were one here it goes.

LnP is exactly what you described.... not trying to finish the fight from top position.

GnP is when a fighter is actively trying to finish the fight from top position.


Neither of these terms is set in stone, and "knowledgeable" fans can have a differing opinion. But the difference between the two is a lack of aggresion in any top position.



How was I being a dick? anyway. I agree aggression is the difference but Taylor does try and finish fights. He just does not have the skills too. It's the same with Tommy Speer who a little bit better with GNP IMO. Both are young and could have bright futures ahead of them if they get to the right camps.

How come if you don't finish a fight it's considered LNP? Sean Sherk-Florian was a freakin entertaining war but since he didn't finish, it's LNP? Only one person has ever finished Franca. His chin is solid and nobody is going to submit him. So since he didn't finish it was LNP? I don't know why people get sh*t for LNP and not "finishing a fight." I'm pretty sure EVERY FIGHTER has the intention on finishing every fight they compete in.

Why can't we just give credit to their opponents? I mean Daunte is pretty good with submissions and most the time Taylor was trying to avoid submissions so it's not his fault he didn't appear like he wanted to finish the fight. He openly says he tries too. It'd be stupid to try and go wild and throw haymakers to finish a fight against good grapplers because your arm will get caught in a armbar or triangle. So how about Sherk and Taylor get less crap for not finishing but more credit for dodging submissions and give more credit to their opponents since Daunte, Florian, and Franca are fighters who are difficult to finish if your a wrestler trying to GNP.
MMA
6/2/08 11:06:36PM
It is not exactly lnp. It is sort of half way between lnp and gnp. If it was lnp, they would have definitely stood them up. It is just that he is content with being in full guard instead of advancing to a new position. He did get some good hits on Dante.
hippysmacker
6/3/08 2:33:09AM
No one need to resort to name calling at anytime guys. If you can't post without insults, please don't post at all. One thing I will say about the UFC , as pertains to TUF , that I like lately. They have been cutting a lot of guys who don't perform rather quickly, as opposed to the past, and mostly using the fighters from the show on Spike fights. If a guy works his way up, is at least exciting & brings it, or is already a good fighter- paying to see their fights doesn't bother me. I will watch any free MMA I can ,so TUF fighters on fight nights & such are cool with me. My guess is within 3 months of the finale 3 to 6 of these guys will be cut. Back when TUF 1 came out, and the UFC's talent pool wasn't anywhere near what it is now, the initial round of guys was considered the best of all the shows talent wise for some.I am not one of them. I think Raferty/ Thatcher/Sanford should never even have been allowed to fight on the final at that stage of there careers, but the UFC's was cash strapped back then . I still think that some of the things that happened back then would be impossible now. A very raw Karalexis getting 3 fights in the UFC before being cut, a Sam Hoger who'd best skill IMO is just the abilty to survive against higher level competition, or Nate Quarry getting a title shot far too quickly. Now I know Quarry was only thrown in their becuase he could sell tix, and the Salverry/Marquardt possible # 1 contender matchup was really bad, but it still was really a bad idea IMO. If anything it made the accomplishments of guys who were doing OK like Griffin/Bonnor /Sanchez /Leben/ Florian look suspect to many fans. For every Diego /Karo their ultimately ended up being a Anderson/Leben, but back then they didn;t have the talent to have a highky touted guy get beat so badly . These days when a lackluster fight like AA/Werdum takes place the UFC has the talent pool to move someone else up ,and thats even at HVY , which is currently their weakest division IMO. I though it was a bad choice at the time, and I felt horrible for Nate. Anyway from last season they have already cut a lot of guys ,including finalist Speer , for poor performance. I am happy to them thinning the roster all around, as I don't want to see guys who aren't quite ready or dedicated to fight in a top org.
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