Ishida Camp Accuses Melendez of ‘Greasing’

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grappler0000
8/17/09 11:11:21PM
A representative for Mitsuhiro Ishida made a verbal protest Saturday against Gilbert Melendez, claiming the Strikeforce interim lightweight champion was “greased” during their rematch at “Carano vs. Cyborg” at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, Calif.

California State Athletic Commission Assistant Executive Officer Bill Douglas told Sherdog.com that the representative interrupted a meeting for officials held shortly after the event to make the proclamation, and was asked to leave the closed-door gathering.

Melendez, 27, blasted past Ishida during their championship bout Saturday, scoring a third-round technical knockout after the Japanese fighter failed on numerous occasions to ground the champion. Ishida absorbed ample punishment from the striker standing, and was dropped by a body knee in the third before Melendez coaxed out the stoppage on the canvas.

Douglas said his agency would not inform Melendez of the complaint unless it became official.

“In order for it to be considered official, we have to have something in writing,” said Douglas.

Douglas said Ishida’s camp has five days to file an official protest, and has not heard from the group since Saturday.

Melendez seemed surprised by the accusations when reached by Sherdog.com Monday.

“I did not grease in the fight,” said Melendez. “The athletic commission was with me the whole time. I didn’t bring any grease with me. I didn’t think there was much grappling in the fight anyway.”

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slapshot
8/17/09 11:18:49PM
lame accusation IMO.
Jackelope
8/17/09 11:21:14PM
How many accusations are we going to see before people actually start realizing that this is a problem in the sport? Not saying guys are rubbing vaseline on themselves just before the fight or in between rounds. However, you'd have to be largely ignorant to the type of stuff that goes on the night before and in the day leading up to a fight to think that guys aren't using every advantage possible.
seanfu
8/18/09 12:05:08AM

Posted by Jackelope

How many accusations are we going to see before people actually start realizing that this is a problem in the sport? Not saying guys are rubbing vaseline on themselves just before the fight or in between rounds. However, you'd have to be largely ignorant to the type of stuff that goes on the night before and in the day leading up to a fight to think that guys aren't using every advantage possible.



Exactly, do I think Melendez is the type of person to do that? no, but a lot of the accusations are probably true.

Whose to say a fighter doesn't use oil based greases the night before where it stays in the pores, or uses a greasy lotion.

It's a problem by all means and the need to do a skin rub or something the day of the fight. I'm sure there's a kind of paper they could make that would act like ph paper or something to the skin.
Aether
8/18/09 1:40:39AM
It is a problem, but I think in this fight it is nonsense. Gilbert sprawled really well, and he's right there was really almost no grappling.

I don't think anyone is going to get caught 5 days after the fight, since there would surely be no concrete evidence to investigate. They need to implement some preventative measure if they want to deal with a problem like this instead of just investigating complaints a matter of days after the event.
supatolacyl
8/18/09 2:42:55AM
I bet the next thing they do is ban Dove, Zest, Irish Spring and liquid soaps the day before fights, because they make you feel slick when you get out of the shower lmao.

I think some steps should be taken to insure fighters are not greasing, but other then having an official "squeez" on the fighters there isn't a whole lot to be done and I don't think to many of us want to see that before each fight. I guess they could wipe them down outside of the cage with some sort of Alchohol wipes or something, but then you will get fighters saying it wipes off all their sweat and so on, plus someone may have an allergy to an alcohol based wipe. It might be a problem in the sport, but I think the majority of the fighters that put in their time and dedication to years of training for the sport, that they wouldn't want to cheapen their craft and stooping to those kind of tactics. Who really know's though, I guess we look to them as our generation of sports heros and want to believe that they wouldn't do any wrong to the sport we have all grown to love. However as in every other sport to date athelets have faultered and will continue too, as long as there is a competitive edge to be gained. I personally will be giving these guys the benefit of doubt until they are proven guilty of this infraction.
postman
8/18/09 8:36:24AM

Posted by Jackelope

How many accusations are we going to see before people actually start realizing that this is a problem in the sport? Not saying guys are rubbing vaseline on themselves just before the fight or in between rounds. However, you'd have to be largely ignorant to the type of stuff that goes on the night before and in the day leading up to a fight to think that guys aren't using every advantage possible.



Yeah I know for sure that stuff goes on but when do we draw the line and say you can't do something perfectly legal in the real world. As strange as it might seem to us its not a normal thing for people to bath in oil but there is no law agianst it. Sucks you can't put two guys in the ring without one or the other trying to get every advantage they. But can you blame a guy for makeing every attempt (within the law)to win?
DCRage
8/18/09 8:51:37AM
Vaseline-Gate 2.0. Might as well add the term to Webster's Dictionary.
Jackelope
8/18/09 9:25:53AM

Posted by postman


Posted by Jackelope

How many accusations are we going to see before people actually start realizing that this is a problem in the sport? Not saying guys are rubbing vaseline on themselves just before the fight or in between rounds. However, you'd have to be largely ignorant to the type of stuff that goes on the night before and in the day leading up to a fight to think that guys aren't using every advantage possible.



Yeah I know for sure that stuff goes on but when do we draw the line and say you can't do something perfectly legal in the real world. As strange as it might seem to us its not a normal thing for people to bath in oil but there is no law agianst it. Sucks you can't put two guys in the ring without one or the other trying to get every advantage they. But can you blame a guy for makeing every attempt (within the law)to win?



Oh absolutely not. I feel the same way about this as I do about PED's. They're out there, and until proper and legitimate steps that aren't just charades are implemented to stop their usage then I'm not going to judge too harshly. At the highest levels of the game, no matter what game it is, people are going to do what it takes to win. I really don't make a differentiation between cheating by grabbing your shorts during a kimura attempt, grabbing the fence to avoid a takedown, using steroids, or bathing in oil. They're all cheating, it's just a matter of risking the consequences. At this point the consequences are a joke, so of course guys are going to risk it. Same as a cornerback tugging on a wideout's jersey when he starts getting away from him a little bit.

I just think that for anyone to believe this stuff isn't happening they're giving many of these guys way too much benefit of doubt. Melendez obviously schooled Ishida, and I really don't believe it would matter either way, but this is yet another one of those issues that needs to be seriously addressed. The little "pat down" officials give fighters before they enter the cage is a flat out joke.
mentalcase
8/18/09 9:41:33AM
grabbing your own shorts is legal in UFC therefore its not cheating, why would you even compare it to grabbing the fence and using steroids and oils


Rush
8/18/09 10:12:56AM
I agree with Jackelope that this stuff is going on more than we think or want to acknowledge. However, what I don't get is in all the accusations of greasing that I have read about, nobody seems to say anything during the fight. It is always the loser complaining after the fight. The only winner I have ever seen complain that his opponent greased was Severn at UFC 4.


I think a simple solution to curb greasing (or even eliminate it) is that, at random, prefight/postfight swabs of a fighter's body are taken and tested for any substance than can be greasy (vaseline, sunscreen, lotion, etc.) Not every fighter needs to be swabbed (though it would be easy and cheap to do so) and not every swab needs to be tested. Swabs could be tested in the event of an accusation or investigation. The risk of the test alone is enough to curb or eliminate use.

postman
8/18/09 10:40:45AM

Posted by Rush

I agree with Jackelope that this stuff is going on more than we think or want to acknowledge. However, what I don't get is in all the accusations of greasing that I have read about, nobody seems to say anything during the fight. It is always the loser complaining after the fight. The only winner I have ever seen complain that his opponent greased was Severn at UFC 4.


I think a simple solution to curb greasing (or even eliminate it) is that, at random, prefight/postfight swabs of a fighter's body are taken and tested for any substance than can be greasy (vaseline, sunscreen, lotion, etc.) Not every fighter needs to be swabbed (though it would be easy and cheap to do so) and not every swab needs to be tested. Swabs could be tested in the event of an accusation or investigation. The risk of the test alone is enough to curb or eliminate use.




Agreed but what are the guidlines they use? What f someone just has dry skin or needs to wear sunblock. Where is the line. Can there be levels of how much you can use? I don't know.
Rush
8/18/09 12:06:43PM
I am sure something can be determined. There should be no reason that any fighter (dry skin or whatever) cannot go a single day without lubing up their body with moisturizers and other creams. Considering the fact that these guys dehydrate themselves close to the point where it is unhealthy, I don't think a day of dry skin should be considered a valid excuse for using any greasy substance before a fight.

As for levels, there should be no more than trace amounts left after a proper shower with soap.

The only flaw with my method is that it doesn't address substances applied during the fight, but should be regulated by only allowing approved products into the ring in between rounds.
ncordless
8/18/09 12:19:48PM
In freestyle wrestling they have refs wipe down the wrestlers in between rounds to keep any grease oil or even sweat from making the grapplers slippery.
Mayhem13
8/18/09 1:35:48PM
My question is, when did -shida start training in Hilo?
Jackelope
8/18/09 5:58:08PM

Posted by mentalcase

grabbing your own shorts is legal in UFC therefore its not cheating, why would you even compare it to grabbing the fence and using steroids and oils





I'm almost 99% positive grabbing shorts is illegal. Just the same as grabbing gloves is illegal.

EDIT: Taken from the UFC's fouls as listed on their website-


20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.


So I suppose I mis-spoke. It is stated as illegal to grab the shorts or gloves of an opponent, not your own. I could swear I've seen people receive a warning for this, but maybe I was wrong. Still.. the gist of my post remains the same. Replace "grabbing your own shorts" with "grabbing someone else's shorts" and it means the same thing. We could argue semantics all day long.. what I'm getting at is that "Cheating is cheating"
EliasG
8/18/09 6:15:39PM
anyone who has rolled with anyone has run into this before. Certain people just feel greasy and slippery. A normal person can get sweaty but they are a bit sticky too. Some people that wear a lot of lotion or what not just feel slick and you can't hold on to them very well. BUT, I'm not sure how that could have anything to do with this particular fight since most of it was stand up. Gilbert countered well and stuffed the takedowns. I thought he fought a GREAT fight. Very smart.
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