UFC Insurance: Is it helping or hurting the sport?

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POLL: Is the UFC Insurance Helping or hurting the sport
Helping 76% (16)
Hurting 24% (5)
prophecy033
9/11/12 8:12:56PM
How do you guys feel about it?
prophecy033
9/11/12 8:50:56PM
I'm conflicted. I love the fact that the UFC is finally willing to help these guys out when they need it. But another side of me doesn't like it because guys take advantage of it and pull out of fights for injuries they wouldn't have if there was no insurance.
FastKnockout
9/11/12 8:54:19PM
Helping. A lot of fighters pulling out these days but it will prolong their career. Another plus is they now concentrate on a quick recovery instead of worrying about financial stability.
Chael_Sonnen
9/11/12 9:07:09PM
For the peeps that think it's hurting the sport......

1) Go outside (I know, it's a shocker)
2) Bang your thick head against a brick wall until you knock yourself out.
3) And then have a friend or random stranger drive over your lifeless corpse.
infestructure
9/11/12 9:35:46PM
I dig we are losing fights. But I also know these guys have a very dangerous occupation that needs insurance.
State_Champ
9/11/12 9:55:26PM

Posted by prophecy033

I'm conflicted. I love the fact that the UFC is finally willing to help these guys out when they need it. But another side of me doesn't like it because guys take advantage of it and pull out of fights for injuries they wouldn't have if there was no insurance.



Insurance is something of which one ought to take advantage, or else there is no sense in paying for it, right?

Why pay for a service and not use it? Especially when using the service heals your health bar to full, like proper medical treatment should do.
jae_1833
9/11/12 9:59:43PM
I have spoken out against the insurance but I must expand on this. See it's my belief that the UFC is the premier organization for MMA, and with that fighter pays should be much higher than they are. Not the superstars mind you, a couple of hundred K is good IMO. It's the medium level and new invites to the UFC that need a raise. If you signed a four fight deal at 30K to show and double to win then you could afford your own insurance. This would help keep Zuffa's promise to take care of fighters but leave all the mess to the fighters and their managers etc.
prophecy033
9/11/12 10:53:02PM

Posted by State_Champ


Posted by prophecy033

I'm conflicted. I love the fact that the UFC is finally willing to help these guys out when they need it. But another side of me doesn't like it because guys take advantage of it and pull out of fights for injuries they wouldn't have if there was no insurance.



Insurance is something of which one ought to take advantage, or else there is no sense in paying for it, right?

Why pay for a service and not use it? Especially when using the service heals your health bar to full, like proper medical treatment should do.

That's not the take advantage I was talking about.

When you need it, by all means take advantage of the fact you have the insurance to use

When you take advantage of the situation by knowing you can bail out of a fight with an "injury" because you have insurance that covers the bill with no out of pocket expense, that's the kind I was referencing.

I have no delusion that this is the method most used but I do feel that some guys do it
prozacnation1978
9/12/12 12:02:37AM
Too many injuries and fights cancelled cause of it
infestructure
9/12/12 12:04:52AM

Posted by prophecy033


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by prophecy033

I'm conflicted. I love the fact that the UFC is finally willing to help these guys out when they need it. But another side of me doesn't like it because guys take advantage of it and pull out of fights for injuries they wouldn't have if there was no insurance.



Insurance is something of which one ought to take advantage, or else there is no sense in paying for it, right?

Why pay for a service and not use it? Especially when using the service heals your health bar to full, like proper medical treatment should do.

That's not the take advantage I was talking about.

When you need it, by all means take advantage of the fact you have the insurance to use

When you take advantage of the situation by knowing you can bail out of a fight with an "injury" because you have insurance that covers the bill with no out of pocket expense, that's the kind I was referencing.

I have no delusion that this is the method most used but I do feel that some guys do it



Didn't some fighter speak out about this publicly? Saying fighters were using the new insurance policy to pick and choose fights or something

They need independent testers (if they don't have them already) to make sure people aren't "pulling our leg"
State_Champ
9/12/12 6:11:57AM

Posted by infestructure


Posted by prophecy033


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by prophecy033

I'm conflicted. I love the fact that the UFC is finally willing to help these guys out when they need it. But another side of me doesn't like it because guys take advantage of it and pull out of fights for injuries they wouldn't have if there was no insurance.



Insurance is something of which one ought to take advantage, or else there is no sense in paying for it, right?

Why pay for a service and not use it? Especially when using the service heals your health bar to full, like proper medical treatment should do.

That's not the take advantage I was talking about.

When you need it, by all means take advantage of the fact you have the insurance to use

When you take advantage of the situation by knowing you can bail out of a fight with an "injury" because you have insurance that covers the bill with no out of pocket expense, that's the kind I was referencing.

I have no delusion that this is the method most used but I do feel that some guys do it



Didn't some fighter speak out about this publicly? Saying fighters were using the new insurance policy to pick and choose fights or something

They need independent testers (if they don't have them already) to make sure people aren't "pulling our leg"




I think they choose who they fight anyway, though.
I mean, they have to sign a contract to fight someone... or they could not sign and not fight. I'm not sure what is new about picking and choosing fights.
LightsOUT23
9/12/12 11:07:12AM
I can understand the argument for those in favor or against. Personally, i believe that UFC insurance is going to keep the next generation of fighters in this sport for longer as financing health bills and added pressures to win will be a thing of the past. What we don't need is for fighters to milk the system and start pulling out left, right and center with minor injuries as too many fighters out of an event can kill it completely as we have seen already. Dana White should protect the interests of the UFC and for the fans by doing 2 events a month with packed cards, possibly 4-6 hour stacked out shows as apposed to a 3 hour ppv. The UFC has lots of fighters to call as back up if needed for replacements, If the competition gets tougher by reducing the number of shows per year then the stakes are higher therefor i see less fighter injuries as the time scale for another shot would be reduced due to the amount of new talent/Fighters all pushing at the same time for that same spot at the top.
postman
9/12/12 2:43:00PM

Posted by jae_1833

I have spoken out against the insurance but I must expand on this. See it's my belief that the UFC is the premier organization for MMA, and with that fighter pays should be much higher than they are. Not the superstars mind you, a couple of hundred K is good IMO. It's the medium level and new invites to the UFC that need a raise. If you signed a four fight deal at 30K to show and double to win then you could afford your own insurance. This would help keep Zuffa's promise to take care of fighters but leave all the mess to the fighters and their managers etc.



Name one guy fighting on the fb prlims that is making the UFC enough money to justify paying them 30,000 to show. Those guys are getting paid what they bring in. Proof of that is 151.
Bubbles
9/12/12 3:29:15PM

Posted by LightsOUT23
Dana White should protect the interests of the UFC and for the fans by doing 2 events a month with packed cards, possibly 4-6 hour stacked out shows as apposed to a 3 hour ppv.


Every event is like 6h long, from undercard to main event. I don't know if you have ever been to a live event, but that is quite a long time as is to sit in those seats drinking $10+ beers. Most sporting events are 2-3h tops
Bubbles
9/12/12 3:37:06PM

Posted by postman


Posted by jae_1833

I have spoken out against the insurance but I must expand on this. See it's my belief that the UFC is the premier organization for MMA, and with that fighter pays should be much higher than they are. Not the superstars mind you, a couple of hundred K is good IMO. It's the medium level and new invites to the UFC that need a raise. If you signed a four fight deal at 30K to show and double to win then you could afford your own insurance. This would help keep Zuffa's promise to take care of fighters but leave all the mess to the fighters and their managers etc.



Name one guy fighting on the fb prlims that is making the UFC enough money to justify paying them 30,000 to show. Those guys are getting paid what they bring in. Proof of that is 151.


Then that long reliever or 5th man off the bench should be making less than the league minimum of $500,000. If they fight 3x a year at $10k to show, that's $30,000. Add a couple bonuses so lets say $50,000. Then there's taxes, management fees, trainer costs, gym fees, travel expenses, etc...and that is on top of everyday expenses. A fulltime burgerflipper at McDonalds will take home more because he doesn't have the extra expenses that fighter has.

If you fight in the UFC, (generally speaking) you cannot have have another job as you are training 6-7 days a week. Maybe $30,000 is a little high for a new fighter, but $20,000 barely makes a scratch in their profit per event
LightsOUT23
9/12/12 3:39:15PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by LightsOUT23
Dana White should protect the interests of the UFC and for the fans by doing 2 events a month with packed cards, possibly 4-6 hour stacked out shows as apposed to a 3 hour ppv.


Every event is like 6h long, from undercard to main event. I don't know if you have ever been to a live event, but that is quite a long time as is to sit in those seats drinking $10+ beers. Most sporting events are 2-3h tops



I have been to two live events and am aware of timing for each event, What i mean is, get rid of fighters who belong in Bellator or Bamma or whatever new world wide event that doesn't rank high springs up in the near future and start using all the top 15 guys of each weight class in longer ppv cards rather than pack these prelims with tuf wannabes. The ufc can still run the tuf shows, and ufc on fox events could showcase the new up and coming guys. I just think that the ufc have too many fighters who cant sell ppv's and as a result, when the main event/ co main event goes tits up, the whole card falls on its ass.
State_Champ
9/12/12 3:48:28PM

Posted by postman
Name one guy fighting on the fb prlims that is making the UFC enough money to justify paying them 30,000 to show. Those guys are getting paid what they bring in. Proof of that is 151.



...I think you over simplified.
I see your point and I think there is validity, but at the same time the UFC likely wouldn't make nearly as much money from a PPV with only Jon Jones vs Dan Henderson rather than a PPV with JJ/Hendo and 7-10 other fights, see?
$50 ppv for one fight?

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that while the non-marquee fighters are worth less to the company than big names (Jones, GSP, etc...), the same non-marquee fighters are also extremely valuable since the UFC consists mainly of them and they make up the majority of the fights.

I think if we take away all the big names, the UFC can still run a business, albeit a less lucrative one-- for example, smaller MMA organizations are successful without people as famous as Anderson Silva-- but take away all the non-marquee fighters and UFC would fall apart (as would most organizations of which I know).



Bubbles
9/12/12 4:03:42PM

Posted by LightsOUT23
I have been to two live events and am aware of timing for each event, What i mean is, get rid of fighters who belong in Bellator or Bamma or whatever new world wide event that doesn't rank high springs up in the near future and start using all the top 15 guys of each weight class in longer ppv cards rather than pack these prelims with tuf wannabes. The ufc can still run the tuf shows, and ufc on fox events could showcase the new up and coming guys. I just think that the ufc have too many fighters who cant sell ppv's and as a result, when the main event/ co main event goes tits up, the whole card falls on its ass.


If you keep getting rid of "fighters who belong in Bellator or BAMMA", then how will you ever find the next JDS or Jones or Weidman? We are tired of rematches, but in this case trilogies will become the norm

longer PPV = more $$. Pretend you live in North America (as you guys watch it on ESPN for a minimal fee relative to what we pay), are you willing to shell $100 for a 6h PPV? I sure as hell wont, and neither would most people. That will cripple the UFC. I see what you are saying, but stacking PPVs with all the top talent and giving FOX all the afterthoughts isn't good business practice with a new partner. I believe that eventually the UFC will become exclusively on free TV...just look at the money being thrown around by ESPN, CBS, NBC, FOX for exclusive coverage of a particular league (ie NFL, NHL, MLB, March Madness, etc). IMO that is the main goal for ZUFFA. Not to mention that the top 15 fighters that will be the first fight of the night will be paid a ton less than what they are making now due to exposure (most notably via sponsors)

151 was "weak" because Koscheck pulled due to injury (replaced by Heiron), and other fighters weren't healthy/ready to fight at that event. It was a decent card, not strong but definitely not weak, headlined by a title fight.
Franklinfan47
9/12/12 7:47:12PM
Initially, I felt this was a good thing for the sport because it brought a certain level of professionalism and security. Many other sports and professions have it, so why not the ufc? I was happy for my favourite fighters.

But I must admit, in recent months ive started to question it. Ive come to terms with the fact that injuries are part of the sport and will never go away, but its literally EVERY main event recently. Like WTF, its almost as if the policy is destroying the sport. Something needs to change.
warglory
9/12/12 10:36:42PM
Okay, forgive me for bearing my ignorance, but what the hell does having insurance or not having insurance have to do with training injuries?

Are you all saying that training injuries didn't happen before insurance? And are you further concluding that varying factors with the UFC becoming a larger brand name, more money and exposure being in the line for fighters, isn't placing a higher stress level on the organization and the fighters to put on top notch performances in a global market?

Anyone who says having insurance as a fighter is hurting the sport, is essentially saying fighters are more reckless because they have an Aetna card to show their doc now. That is laughable in my opinion.

Anyone remember when Kevin Randleman slipped in the locker room the night of the fight he was main eventing, and the audience was told, as the event was taking place, that Randleman's fight would not be taking place because he slipped and hit his head or something to that effect? Does anyone think that Randleman would have crawled out to the cage just because he didn't have an insurance card?
Bubbles
9/12/12 11:05:03PM
I think its more like "Oh my shoulder is a little sore so I am going to pull out of a fight that is 2 months away" sort of thing. Guys blowing their ACL or breaking a hand or getting a huge cut above their eye is understandable. Anything else just seems like they are using it as an excuse to not fight ________ (insert opponent here).