IFL poll

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Svartorm
3/19/07 9:21:15PM
IFL Poll

On IFL Battleground, they asked everyone to vote on this video tab and answer the question "Did the fighter tap out?"

I figured we should get some educated opinions on the poll, as I'm sure most people think he did. Fact of the matter is, he didn't. He put his hand on the guys leg once, but it takes three rapid taps for it to be a submission. It was surely a bad call for the ref to stop both the fighters and say "Keep going", but it wasn't a tapout.
madmarck
3/20/07 9:22:35AM
it is fairly obvious when watching it now that he didnt tap. It was putting his hand on the mat ONCE to balance himself. thats why a tap takes 3 times, so it isnt confused with things like this.

A tap is 3 times on: your body or your opponenets, or the mat.

He slammed his hand down once on the mat. Perhpas it was with the force that he did it that looks like a tap.

Doesnt matter is Stark tapped or not now. He lost the match via Decision.
Victory for Alex either way.
Gogoplata
3/20/07 1:34:51PM
Actually, Stark won the match via guillotine, not Alex, which is why there was such a big stink about it. If he did tap, then the Anacondas should have been in the finals against the Silverbacks.

You can't really put blame on any single one person for the mishap, as Alex thought the match was over so he let go of the submission. So there is blame to spread everywhere, on the ref as well as Alex. Break the damn thing if you have to.
themmachamp
3/20/07 2:11:49PM
terrible job by the ref....he didn't tap, and the ref shouldn't have jumped in and then changed his mind last second
Stickan
3/20/07 3:21:33PM
Aaron made it all seem very very bad by screaming like he did. It sounded like he was in serious pain.
Bad call by the judge and it was very obvious that Alex would've won that fight. But since the question was whether Aaron tapped or not, no he didn't.
madmarck
3/20/07 3:35:39PM

Posted by Gogoplata

Actually, Stark won the match via guillotine, not Alex, which is why there was such a big stink about it. If he did tap, then the Anacondas should have been in the finals against the Silverbacks.

You can't really put blame on any single one person for the mishap, as Alex thought the match was over so he let go of the submission. So there is blame to spread everywhere, on the ref as well as Alex. Break the damn thing if you have to.



Oh ok. I thought this was a mathc that Alex had won. I got the events mixed up.
pv3Hpv3p
3/20/07 4:59:24PM
Tap or not the ref stopped the fight and that was the only reason that Alex let go of that healhook...

If you watched the first match in which he beat Wuiff, he cranked on that thing and had Travis screaming as well, untill he tapped and the ref stops it...

I am not going to say it is easy to be a ref in MMA, you don't want these guys to get hurt, but you also don't want to stop any matches too soon... It can be a really fine line...

But, IMO, if the ref stopped the fight he should have stuck with his decision. He shouldn't have let them restart and just called it right there.
migo
3/21/07 2:34:21AM
I agree. If the ref stops the fight it should be over. No arguments.

Tap is only 3 times when Royce Gracie is fighting.
Svartorm
3/21/07 4:48:27AM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

If you watched the first match in which he beat Wuiff, he cranked on that thing and had Travis screaming as well, untill he tapped and the ref stops it...

I am not going to say it is easy to be a ref in MMA, you don't want these guys to get hurt, but you also don't want to stop any matches too soon... It can be a really fine line...



The thing is, is that ultimately the accountablity is on the fighter. A fighter is supposed to know his limit and have sound judgement in a fight. Failing that, his corner should be well-aware of his limits and be responsible in throwing in the towel. Lastly, a ref should have to intervine for a fighter. The ref jumped the gun, which was his first mistake, but he should have stuck with his original decision instead of restarting the fight.

Honestly, I think more emphasis should be placed on the corner to stop fights, as I've never seen someone complain about their own corner stopping things, and they tend to know their fighters well enough to know when they're in over their head.
migo
3/21/07 6:22:38AM
Ref gets in shit if he doesn't step in early enough. I don't think I've seen a single fight where objectively the ref made a mistake stopping the fight too early. I've seen Cecil Peoples **** up in standing up a fight after one fighter had mount for 15 seconds, but that's as bad as it gets.
madmarck
3/21/07 3:28:10PM

Posted by Svartorm


Posted by pv3Hpv3p

If you watched the first match in which he beat Wuiff, he cranked on that thing and had Travis screaming as well, untill he tapped and the ref stops it...

I am not going to say it is easy to be a ref in MMA, you don't want these guys to get hurt, but you also don't want to stop any matches too soon... It can be a really fine line...



The thing is, is that ultimately the accountablity is on the fighter. A fighter is supposed to know his limit and have sound judgement in a fight. Failing that, his corner should be well-aware of his limits and be responsible in throwing in the towel. Lastly, a ref should have to intervine for a fighter. The ref jumped the gun, which was his first mistake, but he should have stuck with his original decision instead of restarting the fight.

Honestly, I think more emphasis should be placed on the corner to stop fights, as I've never seen someone complain about their own corner stopping things, and they tend to know their fighters well enough to know when they're in over their head.



I really think that the Ref should be counted on Firstly. Few fighters tap out when getting GNP'd. Even though they should. Thats why so many fights end in TKO rather than submission via strikes. As for the Corner. Well they are more inbetween rounds. If a fighter is on the opposite side of the ring/cage it can be hard for them to see what is going on. I can recall a few times when the corner stops the fihgt. But some guys (like Royce did with Saku) insturct there corner not to stop the fight for any reason. If a fighter is the leader of a camp and he instructs his cornermen not to stop the fight, what can they do? He is their leader and effiectivly boss.

I think the corners should hae more responsiblity. In Jason Macdonalds fight with Rich it was a good stop. I recall the cornerman after the fight saying that one of Jasons eyes was swollen shut and the other one had blurred vision. So that was a very good idea to stop. If he had been allowed to contiue like that he could have messed up his vision badly. As was i believe he had trouble seeing for a few days after.
Svartorm
3/21/07 5:38:28PM
Thats one reason refs jump in too soon like that though is because of guys like Royce, Royler, etc who refuse to tap. They might think its manly to have your rotator cuff torn apart, but it puts the ref in a bad position to call fights. Only the person in the hold knows how bad it is.
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