Horror Movie Character tourny ROUND 4 - Matchup #2

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POLL: Who win.s
Freddy - king of elm street 43% (16)
Predator 57% (21)
Theoutlaw08
8/22/11 10:56:18AM
Freddy Krueger has cruised through Candyman, Shredder and Pinhead to get here.
Predator has defeated The Reaper from Jeepers Creepers, Wolfman, and Chucky to make it to this point.

Freddy
vs.
Predator
Theoutlaw08
8/22/11 10:58:09AM
I had to go with Freddy. Predator doesnt have the smarts to hang with Freddy.
grappler0000
8/22/11 11:08:43AM
How sweet would Freddy vs Jason be in the finals.
ChrisSabal
8/22/11 11:13:33AM
does Predator even sleep?
prophecy033
8/22/11 11:40:26AM
It just had to be these too huh. I was wanting these guys in the final but since I had to pick, I went with Freddy. Dude scared the poo out of me when I was a kid. The predator just made me wanna be Arnold cuz Arnold outsmarted the big ugly SOB
Pookie
8/22/11 11:44:43AM
Predator:
Advanced weaponry - Missles, lasers nets and self-destruct bombs trump claws.
Doesn't dream - Falls into Torpor, which is characterized by a deep sleep where the brain isn't active enough to fall into REM cycles.
Bigger, Stronger, Faster in every way.
Better at stealth and tracking.
And Freddy rapes kids.


Predator with a first round KO, Looks like Gonzaga v. Cro-cop.
grappler0000
8/22/11 12:13:04PM

Posted by Pookie

And Freddy rapes kids.



That's something they added in the remake...which I didn't care for. In the original, he was just a child killer and any hint at molestation was ambiguous at best. I'll always see Freddy as Robert Englund and nobody else.


Doesn't dream - Falls into Torpor, which is characterized by a deep sleep where the brain isn't active enough to fall into REM cycles.


Is this true? I've never heard or read that about the Predator before...of coarse it's also been a long time since I've seen a Predator movie as well.
kopower
8/22/11 12:37:51PM
Had to go with Predator. Pookie pretty much explained everything.
Pookie
8/22/11 12:58:59PM
OoO! And Freddy's power is limited to the fear he can generate. If you don't believe he can hurt you, he can't. And since Predator's are foreign aliens who dont have a language that adheres to our conceptual programming, If predator doesn't understand the term fear, Freddy is powerless.

I think in all likelyhood, the predator isn't cognizant of its own state of mind, and therefore, freddy has no power.

The same reason freddy can't kill animals, other than dolphins.
Theoutlaw08
8/22/11 1:14:11PM

Posted by Pookie

OoO! And Freddy's power is limited to the fear he can generate. If you don't believe he can hurt you, he can't. And since Predator's are foreign aliens who dont have a language that adheres to our conceptual programming, If predator doesn't understand the term fear, Freddy is powerless.

I think in all likelyhood, the predator isn't cognizant of its own state of mind, and therefore, freddy has no power.

The same reason freddy can't kill animals, other than dolphins.



This is true, but in Freddy vs. Jason, Freddy was pulled out of the dream world and put into the real world we live in, which mean he could attack Predator without coming through his dreams.
grappler0000
8/22/11 1:51:41PM

Posted by Theoutlaw08

...in Freddy vs. Jason, Freddy was pulled out of the dream world and put into the real world we live in...



Freddy has actually come into the real world on more than one occasion.


Posted by Pookie

If you don't believe he can hurt you, he can't.



That's basically an angle they used when running short of ideas. Really though, that was never a great Freddy-retardant. Not only that, but you'd have to have that knowledge in order for it to be useful...and I don't see any logical way for Predator to obtain that knowledge.


Posted by Pookie

And since Predator's are foreign aliens who dont have a language that adheres to our conceptual programming, If predator doesn't understand the term fear, Freddy is powerless.



If Predator feels pain or even has a basic understanding of cause and effect, then he undoubtedly understands fear. Besides, although fear makes Freddy stronger, Freddy can operate independently of it.


Posted by Pookie

I think in all likelyhood, the predator isn't cognizant of its own state of mind, and therefore, freddy has no power.

The same reason freddy can't kill animals, other than dolphins.



That's a questionable assumption at best. No matter though, since being self aware is not a prerequisite for dreaming. Anyone who has ever owned a dog knows this.
Pookie
8/22/11 2:00:37PM
Running short of idea's or not, they did use the idea! Therefore it's canon. And totally relevant to the case. Freddy can't hurt you in your dreams if you believe he can't. I've never seen him work independently of fear.

Predator's are a mercenary hunting species. In the real world, it's not even close.

I think it's also an assumption on our part to assume that Predator's have fear. Their entire species revolves around hunting and killing creatures that spit acid. I think it's reasonable to assume that fear is a hindrance to the species, and is therefore liable to be bred out of the genetic pool via the fearless predator's surviving more often and passing their gene's down more often. Predator's have had trial of manhoods for centuries, and i think that's enough time for that effect to take place.
grappler0000
8/22/11 2:56:18PM

Posted by Pookie

Running short of idea's or not, they did use the idea! Therefore it's canon. And totally relevant to the case.



Running short of ideas was just my side commentary. Again though, if Predator doesn't have that knowledge, then that idea never makes it anywhere. And there's no conceivable way for him to know that.


Posted by Pookie

I think it's also an assumption on our part to assume that Predator's have fear.



I think it would be an assumption on our part to assume that Predators don't have fear. Why wouldn't they?


Posted by Pookie

Their entire species revolves around hunting and killing creatures that spit acid. I think it's reasonable to assume that fear is a hindrance to the species, and is therefore liable to be bred out of the genetic pool via the fearless predator's surviving more often and passing their gene's down more often. Predator's have had trial of manhoods for centuries, and i think that's enough time for that effect to take place.



Fear is a survival response, hence a key attribute in the evolution of a species...namely advanced species. In fact, without fear, Predators would not be what they are.

Also, it's worth noting that Predator doesn't have to fear Freddy for him to become powerful...he can become powerful though others' fears.
Pookie
8/22/11 4:08:26PM

Posted by grappler0000

I think it would be an assumption on our part to assume that Predators don't have fear. Why wouldn't they?



Yup. So it's 50/50. An assumption either way. But just the fact that they are an alien species is enough for me, personally, to not accredit the variable enough validity to sway me decision


Posted by grappler0000
Also, it's worth noting that Predator doesn't have to fear Freddy for him to become powerful...he can become powerful though others' fears.



Isn't this a one on one? I think it must be predator's fear for it to help in this particular match.

And Rockets. Predator has rockets.
Theoutlaw08
8/22/11 4:27:35PM
I think Freddy has the given ability to do what he wants. How do we know Predator doesn't sleep?
Pookie
8/22/11 4:30:45PM

Posted by Theoutlaw08

I think Freddy has the given ability to do what he wants. How do we know Predator doesn't sleep?



He sleeps, but doesnt dream, because he hibernates.
Predator 2 showed them hibernating on the spaceship. And hibernation slows your brain too much to dream.

But i don't really buy the arguement that Freddy can do what he wants. He get's beaten by teenage cunning in every movie, other than Freddy v. Jason. In that movie he just got beat by a big ass zombie with a machete.
Pookie
8/22/11 4:31:31PM
And Yes, this is my definition of dancing.
grappler0000
8/22/11 4:41:30PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by grappler0000

I think it would be an assumption on our part to assume that Predators don't have fear. Why wouldn't they?



Yup. So it's 50/50. An assumption either way. But just the fact that they are an alien species is enough for me, personally, to not accredit the variable enough validity to sway me decision



Not really. It's simple deductive reasoning. All advanced lifeforms experience fear. Therefore Predator experiences fear. It would be a hell of an argument to convince a logical person otherwise.


Posted by Pookie


Posted by grappler0000
Also, it's worth noting that Predator doesn't have to fear Freddy for him to become powerful...he can become powerful though others' fears.



Isn't this a one on one? I think it must be predator's fear for it to help in this particular match.



Yes, it's a one on one, but unless you kill off everyone else prior to this fight, then it's a factor whether we like it or not. You can't really put a block on something intangible like thoughts or fear. Either way, there's no reason to believe that Predator doesn't have fear, so this is just a secondary thought anyway.
Pookie
8/22/11 4:47:03PM
I thought due to the parameters set in Nightmare in elm street 1, that the fear of the person in the dream is entirely what matters. How else could the actress defeat freddy based on her thoughts alone?

I don't think deductive reasoning is reliable when dealing with things outside of our realm of knowledge. Aliens fit that category.

And rockets.
Pookie
8/22/11 4:55:06PM
Im going to be honest, my whole argument is compelled by rockets. And in a one on one tournament format, i can't accept the argument that any one person is invincible. Especially if they get beat in every movie by average teenagers. I can beat up average teenagers. That's too big of a discrepancy.
grappler0000
8/22/11 4:59:23PM

Posted by Pookie

I thought due to the parameters set in Nightmare in elm street 1, that the fear of the person in the dream is entirely what matters. How else could the actress defeat freddy based on her thoughts alone?

I don't think deductive reasoning is reliable when dealing with things outside of our realm of knowledge. Aliens fit that category.

And rockets.



In Freddy vs Jason, it was the rise of fear in the community that re-empowered Freddy.

If we can't use deductive reasoning, then there's really no way to even debate this topic.

Edit: if I remember correctly, it was in the real world that not believing in him worked.
grappler0000
8/22/11 5:02:55PM

Posted by Pookie

Im going to be honest, my whole argument is compelled by rockets. And in a one on one tournament format, i can't accept the argument that any one person is invincible. Especially if they get beat in every movie by average teenagers. I can beat up average teenagers. That's too big of a discrepancy.



Remember, there is only 1 Freddy...and he is still around. He may lose some battles, but he's never been completely defeated.


Rockets are some serious sh*t though
Pookie
8/22/11 5:10:28PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Pookie

I thought due to the parameters set in Nightmare in elm street 1, that the fear of the person in the dream is entirely what matters. How else could the actress defeat freddy based on her thoughts alone?

I don't think deductive reasoning is reliable when dealing with things outside of our realm of knowledge. Aliens fit that category.

And rockets.



In Freddy vs Jason, it was the rise of fear in the community that re-empowered Freddy.

If we can't use deductive reasoning, then there's really no way to even debate this topic.

Edit: if I remember correctly, it was in the real world that not believing in him worked.



Inductive reasoning. Subjective impressions are just as important to analysis as Objective data. Especially if the data can pull you in a couple of different directions.

And you might just be right about the real world. But on that tangent, i'm not so sure how hard it would be for Predator to grapple with Freddy, and survive claw wounds long enough to wake. He may not know to do this, but grabbing him could also be instinct for a fighting race of alien.

I just can't see the claw mortally wounding him. His armor protects him from acid. and Alien tales.

And Fire is super effective against Freddy.
kopower
8/22/11 5:19:14PM
I look at it from a few different angles.

A cage match:
Predator demolished Freddy

A battle in the outdoors:
Predator has too many tools and has been bred to hunt and kill.

A few day battle:
Freddy can get into your dreams. It is debatable the Predator dreams, but if it does, that's Freddy's world and it's toast.

I just have a tough time picking a child molester to beat an advanced alien species.
Pookie
8/22/11 5:22:28PM

Posted by kopower

I look at it from a few different angles.

A cage match:
Predator demolished Freddy

A battle in the outdoors:
Predator has too many tools and has been bred to hunt and kill.

A few day battle:
Freddy can get into your dreams. It is debatable the Predator dreams, but if it does, that's Freddy's world and it's toast.

I just have a tough time picking a child molester to beat an advanced alien species.



To play devil's advocate with myself(and i do love playing with myself, i advocate it), Freddy is really good at molesting children. Practically the best.
Theoutlaw08
8/22/11 5:29:40PM
Can i be the first to say that I love how far this discussion has gone.

I still say - Freddy would find a way into the Predarots mind while he is hibernating. Freddy by slashing!!!!!
BlueSkiesBurn
8/22/11 6:36:20PM
Freddy got beat by Jason, he got beat by teenagers, and really, his movies aren't scary.

Predator wins this by absolute destruction. As someone stated on a previous thread, if the Predator feel endangered at any time, he blows them both up and we have a Fitch-Penn draw.
grappler0000
8/22/11 7:06:15PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

As someone stated on a previous thread, if the Predator feel endangered at any time, he blows them both up and we have a Fitch-Penn draw.



It didn't kill Arny.
Pookie
8/22/11 7:08:07PM
I'd take Prime Arny over Freddy too.

He was like the top Delta force mercenary of all time in that movie. I don't think Rambo could take predator, in a forest.
Aether
8/22/11 7:40:34PM

Posted by Pookie

Predator:
Advanced weaponry - Missles, lasers nets and self-destruct bombs trump claws.
Doesn't dream - Falls into Torpor, which is characterized by a deep sleep where the brain isn't active enough to fall into REM cycles.
Bigger, Stronger, Faster in every way.
Better at stealth and tracking.
And Freddy rapes kids.


Predator with a first round KO, Looks like Gonzaga v. Cro-cop.



This. Mainly the sleep thing. I can't imagine that predator sleeps and dreams like a normal human, and Freddy is completely worthless unless you fall asleep.

Actually, how the hell did Freddy beat anyone? You literally have to be unconscious for him to hurt you.
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