then who the hell can beat him?!

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POLL: who could beat Lyoto?
Anderson 38% (25)
Shogun 8% (5)
Wand 30% (20)
Chuck 12% (8)
Rampage 5% (3)
or LHW champion Forrest Griffin 8% (5)
joshryanshepherd
7/7/08 3:07:15AM
Their is a lot of people saying that Machida could beat Quinton and walk through Forrest. And probably some that say he could beat chuck...

well what this thread is about is if he could beat those guys than who can beat him?

wand? shogun?

i cant wait until someone drops Machida! i don't know if his chin has been tested but it doesn't have to be with the way he moves.

i think Shogun has a hell of a chance beating Lyoto and to be honest i think machida is fairly over rated...
voodoo-jitsu
7/7/08 3:10:54AM
all the above
pdanke
7/7/08 3:11:01AM
He needs to fight someone willing to engage him, and not let him run away like a pussy-willow (or "be elusive" as they say in karate).

So yes, can someone sign the fight with him and one of the Silva's..... either Thiago or Wanderlei.
sammyd1213
7/7/08 3:13:13AM
Lyoto is a tough matchup for anyone he faces. But he is far from unbeatable. I would pick Shogun over him, as well as Wand. Hes hasnt really beat a good wrestler either so a guy like Hamill could give him trouble. He'll get beat soon enough, just not by Tito Ortiz.
joshryanshepherd
7/7/08 3:13:44AM

Posted by pdanke

(or "be elusive" as they say in karate).




i just thought that was super badass!
Pookie
7/7/08 3:44:03AM
A Striker who is well tuned defensively and isnt afraid to come forward.
Also kicks are necassary to keep lyoto out of his punching range.
Defensively Lyoto is phenomenal, but offensively hes not the best. If he fought someone with GREAT muay thai and stand-up defense he would have the biggest problems.

Shogun, and Anderson come to mind as the best.

Chuck i believe is too slow and he never checks leg kicks or throws them, stylistically i think lyoto would give him major problems.
williamraysmith
7/7/08 4:56:58AM
Someone who would press the action and get in Lyotos face. I would pick Shogun or Wanderlei. I think shogun has a better chance because he will use his kick more than wanderlei will.
Matimus
7/7/08 6:21:51AM
Franklin v Machida #2
Pookie
7/7/08 6:22:45AM

Posted by Matimus

Franklin v Machida #2



Really? You think Franklin would beat him?
hodge
7/7/08 2:13:01PM
wands style is perfect to beat machida
CantAndleDaRiddum
7/7/08 3:01:22PM
shogun
papercut
7/7/08 3:05:21PM

Posted by hodge

wands style is perfect to beat machida



and it'll be similar fashion to the jardine fight.
MoJoy
7/7/08 3:15:52PM
Machida would murder Wandy. Wandy would look so horrible against him. He would come in and try to rush, and Machida would pick him apart. I think Machida beats all these guys, the only guy who I think can beat him is Anderson. Machida does not run from opponents. He did not run from Nak,Soko, or Ortiz. Dodging punches and coming back and kicking someones ass is not running. I am jaw dropped with all this talk of Machida not engaging. I guess you did not see him destoy Soko, where was the running. Think back to him against Tito. He almost became the first man to tko Ortiz in the first round. Had that round gone any longer, its over right there. And he repeadteldy would dodge Tito, come back and feint punches and push kick his ass. Then feint again and punch him in the face. Do you realize going by fight matrix numbers Ortiz did not hit Machida a single time in the first round. Thats not running. Thats perfect defense. Thats the same first round where he SLAMMED Ortiz and demolished him. How can people say this guy runs. Hopefully I wont get banned again, if I do it will probably be losing my temper and going on a tirade against Machida haters. Take his fights against Franklin and Bonner, those where the epitome of toe to toe slugfests, and he dominated them. If you are gonna sit there and say he runs link the fight where he does it. Against Tito he was constantly moving side to side, and feinting and beating him up. Did you see Tito's face after the fight. So if your gonna sit there and trash this amazing fighter, this class guy, show the proof where he runs. I have never seen a fight where he runs. I have seen him display perfect defense and beat people up.
fonduktoe
7/7/08 3:20:09PM

Posted by MoJoy

Machida would murder Wandy. Wandy would look so horrible against him. He would come in and try to rush, and Machida would pick him apart. I think Machida beats all these guys, the only guy who I think can beat him is Anderson. Machida does not run from opponents. He did not run from Nak,Soko, or Ortiz. Dodging punches and coming back and kicking someones ass is not running. I am jaw dropped with all this talk of Machida not engaging. I guess you did not see him destoy Soko, where was the running. Think back to him against Tito. He almost became the first man to tko Ortiz in the first round. Had that round gone any longer, its over right there. And he repeadteldy would dodge Tito, come back and feint punches and push kick his ass. Then feint again and punch him in the face. Do you realize going by fight matrix numbers Ortiz did not hit Machida a single time in the first round. Thats not running. Thats perfect defense. Thats the same first round where he SLAMMED Ortiz and demolished him. How can people say this guy runs. Hopefully I wont get banned again, if I do it will probably be losing my temper and going on a tirade against Machida haters. Take his fights against Franklin and Bonner, those where the epitome of toe to toe slugfests, and he dominated them. If you are gonna sit there and say he runs link the fight where he does it. Against Tito he was constantly moving side to side, and feinting and beating him up. Did you see Tito's face after the fight. So if your gonna sit there and trash this amazing fighter, this class guy, show the proof where he runs. I have never seen a fight where he runs. I have seen him display perfect defense and beat people up.


dude, seriously c'mon
machida runs likes he's a little girl covered in insects
sammyd1213
7/7/08 3:20:26PM

Posted by MoJoy

Machida would murder Wandy. Wandy would look so horrible against him. He would come in and try to rush, and Machida would pick him apart. I think Machida beats all these guys, the only guy who I think can beat him is Anderson. Machida does not run from opponents. He did not run from Nak,Soko, or Ortiz. Dodging punches and coming back and kicking someones ass is not running. I am jaw dropped with all this talk of Machida not engaging. I guess you did not see him destoy Soko, where was the running. Think back to him against Tito. He almost became the first man to tko Ortiz in the first round. Had that round gone any longer, its over right there. And he repeadteldy would dodge Tito, come back and feint punches and push kick his ass. Then feint again and punch him in the face. Do you realize going by fight matrix numbers Ortiz did not hit Machida a single time in the first round. Thats not running. Thats perfect defense. Thats the same first round where he SLAMMED Ortiz and demolished him. How can people say this guy runs. Hopefully I wont get banned again, if I do it will probably be losing my temper and going on a tirade against Machida haters. Take his fights against Franklin and Bonner, those where the epitome of toe to toe slugfests, and he dominated them. If you are gonna sit there and say he runs link the fight where he does it. Against Tito he was constantly moving side to side, and feinting and beating him up. Did you see Tito's face after the fight. So if your gonna sit there and trash this amazing fighter, this class guy, show the proof where he runs. I have never seen a fight where he runs. I have seen him display perfect defense and beat people up.



Machida can and will be beat. He is far from superman. He would squash Franklin though. I favor a couple guys over him.
JimiMak
7/7/08 3:24:42PM
All of these guys "could beat" him and each other, very tight div. But I would bet on him against anyone right now.

Anyone who thinks he runs has never really watched him fight. It's been done to death and I'm not gonna get back into it.
MoJoy
7/7/08 3:27:19PM
Fonduk that comment holds no water. Link the fight where he ran. He destroyed Tito. Moving side to side, feinting and then hitting people hard is not running. Look at the numbers from the Ortiz fight. He hit Tito over and over. If you say he runs link footage of him doing that. I say he fights like a man.
papercut
7/7/08 3:30:43PM

Posted by MoJoy

Machida would murder Wandy. Wandy would look so horrible against him. He would come in and try to rush, and Machida would pick him apart. I think Machida beats all these guys, the only guy who I think can beat him is Anderson. Machida does not run from opponents. He did not run from Nak,Soko, or Ortiz. Dodging punches and coming back and kicking someones ass is not running. I am jaw dropped with all this talk of Machida not engaging. I guess you did not see him destoy Soko, where was the running. Think back to him against Tito. He almost became the first man to tko Ortiz in the first round. Had that round gone any longer, its over right there. And he repeadteldy would dodge Tito, come back and feint punches and push kick his ass. Then feint again and punch him in the face. Do you realize going by fight matrix numbers Ortiz did not hit Machida a single time in the first round. Thats not running. Thats perfect defense. Thats the same first round where he SLAMMED Ortiz and demolished him. How can people say this guy runs. Hopefully I wont get banned again, if I do it will probably be losing my temper and going on a tirade against Machida haters. Take his fights against Franklin and Bonner, those where the epitome of toe to toe slugfests, and he dominated them. If you are gonna sit there and say he runs link the fight where he does it. Against Tito he was constantly moving side to side, and feinting and beating him up. Did you see Tito's face after the fight. So if your gonna sit there and trash this amazing fighter, this class guy, show the proof where he runs. I have never seen a fight where he runs. I have seen him display perfect defense and beat people up.



now I never said he runs. I'm just saying having wandy in your face for 15 minutes it will be hard to stick and move. and the aggresive way wandy fights its tough for anyone to handle. put that with his strength and standup game machida won't be able to stick and move for long. I'm not a Machida hater just saying who I think will beat him.
MoJoy
7/7/08 3:32:30PM
Examples of fighter running are Kalib Starnes, Werdum vs. Arlovski, and to a lesser degree Almeida against Cote, round 2 on. I repeat if your gonna say Machida runs link video footage of him doing it. Go watch his fights against BJ,Stephen,Rich Franklin, those are toe to toe battles. Where was the running there? Against Nak they where clinched up most of the fight. If you run how do you end up clinched up with a guy. Against Soko he went right at him, I mean right at him. Why is that that people who say he runs cant provide any proof. You say I need to provide proof? Fair Enought. Gladly I do it. Go watch the fights I mentioned. Go ask Bonner or Rich if he runs. I guess Franklins first loss where he was brutally tko'd he did it with Machida running. I guess Ortiz getting slammed in the first round almost finished, then completely beaten up, needing multiple stiches happened mysteriously. Unbelivable.
MoJoy
7/7/08 3:36:30PM
Wandy with his short limbs and straight forward attack would play right into Machida's hands. Your talking about the same Wandy who could not even break through against Chuck Liddell, when it was the fight that Chuck did his least counter punching, and Chuck sits there with his hands all low. Wandy never really seriously hurt Chuck. But you think he will get through Machida's perfect defense. No way. The only fighters who have any chance are long limbed strikers who have a diverse game. And probably even those would lose also.
papercut
7/7/08 3:40:46PM

Posted by MoJoy

Wandy with his short limbs and straight forward attack would play right into Machida's hands. Your talking about the same Wandy who could not even break through against Chuck Liddell, when it was the fight that Chuck did his least counter punching, and Chuck sits there with his hands all low. Wandy never really seriously hurt Chuck. But you think he will get through Machida's perfect defense. No way. The only fighters who have any chance are long limbed strikers who have a diverse game. And probably even those would lose also.



have you never seen wandy use his clinch? if he hooks machidas head and clinches up its over. machida does have as hard a head as mark hunt. wandy would KO him within the the first 3 minutes.
sammyd1213
7/7/08 3:52:32PM

Posted by papercut


Posted by MoJoy

Wandy with his short limbs and straight forward attack would play right into Machida's hands. Your talking about the same Wandy who could not even break through against Chuck Liddell, when it was the fight that Chuck did his least counter punching, and Chuck sits there with his hands all low. Wandy never really seriously hurt Chuck. But you think he will get through Machida's perfect defense. No way. The only fighters who have any chance are long limbed strikers who have a diverse game. And probably even those would lose also.



have you never seen wandy use his clinch? if he hooks machidas head and clinches up its over. machida does have as hard a head as mark hunt. wandy would KO him within the the first 3 minutes.



gsquat
7/7/08 3:58:29PM
I've said before that I can't see anyone in the LHW division beating Machida right now. Thats why I picked none of the above. But if I had to pick one to come the closest, it'd be Forrest. Just because he's so tough. I agree with previous posts that state that an engaging wrestler would probably be the best to beat him. Hamill or Rashad could beat him in a decision (on a really good night). But still odds are in Lyoto's favor until somebody figures out how to counter his "counter style".
MoJoy
7/7/08 4:10:48PM
Are you joking. Dont you first have to grab a hold of him to clinch him. And even there I am taking Lyoto. Did you see him clinched with Nak and Tito. He dominated the clinch against those guy, no question about that. The man can do everything in a fight. Wandy cannot. There is a big difference when it comes to talent with these fighter. Lyoto is a million miles more talented. And because of that he would win. Probably easily, I honestly believe that. Some guys will give him tough fights, not Wandy. Anderson and Forrest are the most practical options because of their length and versatility. And even those guys, I am picking Machida. You wanna talk Wandy clinching. On what planet. He had no success clinching against Chuck, or Dan Henderson, then he fights a guy with better defense in Lyoto. Think about it. Lyoto is the man, its only a matter if your honest and smart enough to realize it yall.
NatedawgThaM
7/7/08 4:55:14PM
Rampage or Anderson.

Both are never scared to come forward and both have great defense and offense. Not to mention they are no slouch on the ground either. I think Anderson would be a bit too accurate for him and Rampage I think would over power him or beat like he did Chuck with a great powerful counter punch himself even though he'd have a lot more difficulty finding that perfect shot since Machida wouldn't be caught dead throwing a loop body hook from a good distance away.
tylerlee123
7/7/08 5:10:42PM
Chuck will give Machida his first loss, mark my words
papercut
7/7/08 5:11:37PM

Posted by MoJoy

Are you joking. Dont you first have to grab a hold of him to clinch him. And even there I am taking Lyoto. Did you see him clinched with Nak and Tito. He dominated the clinch against those guy, no question about that. The man can do everything in a fight. Wandy cannot. There is a big difference when it comes to talent with these fighter. Lyoto is a million miles more talented. And because of that he would win. Probably easily, I honestly believe that. Some guys will give him tough fights, not Wandy. Anderson and Forrest are the most practical options because of their length and versatility. And even those guys, I am picking Machida. You wanna talk Wandy clinching. On what planet. He had no success clinching against Chuck, or Dan Henderson, then he fights a guy with better defense in Lyoto. Think about it. Lyoto is the man, its only a matter if your honest and smart enough to realize it yall.



ever heard of PRIDE? just because he moved to the UFC doesn't mean his record starts clean. Wandy is deadly in the clinch. he traind with anderson silva at chutebox. anderson dominates the clinch as well. he KO'd rampage from the clinch. there is no way lyoto can take wandy in the clinch.
asterisk
7/7/08 5:46:58PM
For the sheer entertainment, I'd like to see him fight Houston. Granted, Machida would probably "karate-do" (or whatever you wanna call his style) Houston's ass in the first round, but at least it'd be exciting. I'm pretty sure that the Machida bashing comes from fans' lack of interest in/understanding of his style. As far as who can beat him, shit, anyone can on any given day. Vera has a good style to do so. I might bet on wandy too, but doubtful.
MoJoy
7/7/08 6:00:33PM
First of all Pride rules are different. Second of all, a lot of people myself included have doubts as to if fighters where fighting fair in Pride. Not coming from me, but many many people on the inside besides Juanito have hinted at this. Me I was not there,I dont know. There is no accusation being made by me I am only bringing up what they bring up. I can only go by what people on the up and up say. On top of that, most recently Wandy has not had success in the clinch. And the Rampage he fought then was a different Rampage, and by the way Rampage was beating Wandy both times, when they where stupidly stood up. Lot of politics there. I am looking at his recent fights. He could not clinch against Dan Henderson. Did not need to against Jardine, and was not able to against Chuck Liddell. Lyoto has better defense than Chuck, why would Silva be so easily able to clinch him when he has not been able to recently against others? Wandy will make a lot of opponents look bad, but hes a flawed fighter. Face the facts. He does not have the diversity in his game to beat a Chuck Liddell or even more so a Lyoto. Those guys styles are tailor made to make Wandy look bad. Look at Machida's fights. He clinched some against Nakamura and Tito. But that was cause he knew he could hold his own there. This guy is a genius. He would either not clinch with Wandy, or only do it if he feels he can take him there. When Machida has clinched, it's not cause the other fighter wanted too, its cause Mahcida chose too. Thats what you Machida haters dont get. He is always the one who dictates the fight. He is always the one to make people adapt to his awkward style. Time in, Time out, in every single one of his 14 fights, all clear wins, none even close, repeat none even close, save the BJ fight, no one has ever dictated to him. He always controls where the fight goes and more than anyone excpet a select few can beat you anywhere the fight goes. Watching his fights is like a clinic. He shows different things in every fight, simply impressive.
fonduktoe
7/7/08 7:15:22PM
list of people who can beat lyoto machida:
wanderlai silva, anderson silva, thiago silva, chuck liddell, rampage jackson, forrest griffin, keith jardine, brandon vera, rashad evans, dan henderson, and many more.
all they have to do is neutralize his perpetual back pedalling and its lights out for machida (he is WAYYYY overrated)
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