Hard Body Training

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Westley
6/22/09 5:33:18PM
I didn't see a thread like this when I searched- if there is one I'm sorry.

Who here has experience with hard body training?

I met a kickboxer from the Navy who I once watched knock out five angry bar patrons in about half a minute by making his fingers into a spear and one shotting all of them in the temple. It was the coolest thing I ever saw, pretty much. Anyway, he's gone, but he told me that to make his legs brutal, he rolled a broom stick up and down them every day as hard as he could and then covered them in some salve. I'm wondering if anybody had experience in this sort of thing and knows of pills or lotions that would help the process. One person suggested using what people use when they shuck corn, because they're hands become torn up and so they use a lotion to make their skin soft but extremely tough. Aloe was also suggested for healing, and I'd think that MSM, calcium, magnesium, glucosamine, and chondroitin would all help, but these are all things I just guessed on my own, and it would be nice to here from somebody experienced in these things. I don't want to find out that all the brrom stick trick does is hurt like a &$%^&, but if that's true I'd rather find out sooner than later. I've been doing it, but only about every other day for a week, so not enough to see results really.

Any hard body training info at all would be nice. I also do most my push ups on my knuckles on cement, but I'd like to also improve my knees and elbows but don't know how.

Thanks in advance.
Jackelope
6/22/09 7:49:33PM
A lot of wing chun and other kung fu guys use some stuff called Dit Da Jow that you can pick up nearly anywhere that teaches kung fu. I've used it before, and I'm still on the fence with it. It always relieved the pain for me, but I'm not sure if it was placebo or not.

Anyway, in Wing Chun there are a lot of hardening techniques. We used to sit there for hours on end doing Chi Sau and some other drills that involve nothing but the clashing of bones in your forearms. You could always tell if the guy you were going up against was really good or not by the hardness of his forearms. I had several instructors throughout those Wing Chun days that had forearms like adamantium. They would bruise you by grazing your arm.

As for whether they're useful in MMA or not? Again, I don't know. Obviously having hard forearms can't hurt. (Well, they can hurt your opponent) Personally, though, I would be focused a lot more on hardening my shins and hands. In MT you develop that hardness by spending some quality time with the heavybags. You can roll your shins if you want, too.

Edit: Also, I'm not so sure about the finger KO thing. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's something I'd have to see in person to believe.

ncordless
6/22/09 9:03:01PM

I met a kickboxer from the Navy who I once watched knock out five angry bar patrons in about half a minute by making his fingers into a spear and one shotting all of them in the temple.


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Joemoplata
6/22/09 11:06:26PM

Posted by Westley

I met a kickboxer from the Navy who I once watched knock out five angry bar patrons in about half a minute by making his fingers into a spear and one shotting all of them in the temple.



Sounds like 5 angry, very DRUNK bar patrons!


Posted by Westley

Anyway, he's gone, but he told me that to make his legs brutal, he rolled a broom stick up and down them every day as hard as he could and then covered them in some salve. I'm wondering if anybody had experience in this sort of thing and knows of pills or lotions that would help the process.



Any good Muay Thai school is going to employ similar tactics for toughening up the shins to both increase thebone density and slowly deaden the nerves. Good idea if you plan to fight professionally, bad idea if you want to walk normally past the age of...oh, say 45 or so.


Posted by Westley

I also do most my push ups on my knuckles on cement, but I'd like to also improve my knees and elbows but don't know how.




Dude, to be honest that is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE idea. Your hands are going to be very important for you in life and you are absolutely causing some long term damage doing what you're doing. And it's not even really helping you our doing what you're doing. Let me try to explain:

The idea of that type of "hard training" is to cause microfractures to the bones. This would then cause an response from your body to repair that damage with an increase in localized bone density. However, that repair time is most likely greater than you're giving it. So instead of getting the repair you need, you are instead just adding microfractures on top of microfractures. Without time to heal, you're actually making your bones weaker and increasing your chances of having arthritis and other incurable, debilitating problems.

There might be some better options for getting your hands tougher than what you're doing.
artofdefense
6/23/09 12:28:24PM
First I Lol.

Now:

You want eucalyptus oil.

Shins: A broomstick is good, a rolling pin is better, but you should get a partner to roll them for you while your feet are stuck out straight in front of you. You can't cause yourself enough pain usually to get the necessary pressure. You needs someone to hurt you.

Knuckles,Elbows,Palms, and Knees:

Find a good support beam in your house, something HARD. Attach to it a little blanket of cloth, I like cotton, about 3/4 inch thick. Hit this at medium power with the desired body part, for about 15 mins a day.
Westley
6/23/09 6:00:32PM
Eucalyptus oil? Interesting. Any reason it's so useful?

Thanks for the word of advice on the dangers of bone hardenng, but I doubt I'll make it past the next five years, never mind till I'm 45, so screw it.

So how long should I wait for the bone to heal before rolling pin sessions? And I would think that knuckle push ups would be a less harmful way of bone hardening than, for example, just punching the support beams in your home. It's not like I started out doing them on the cement though- I started on carpet and worked up by doing them on dirt and then punching dirt. I've seen palms that were bricks before, but I haven't tried to toughen them up yet.

Oh, and as for the kickboxer and the angry patrons, everybody involved was rather smashed, but I think fighting while faded was nothing new for the aforementioned dome destroyer.

Thanks for the advice
Svartorm
6/28/09 12:16:13PM
Good advice here. I just want to make sure you understand that you're giving up "quality of life" by doing most hard body training. Your hands, shins, etc become basically calcified and dead from doing this, so although you can bust bones, bricks, boards, etc, you lose a fair bit of manual dexterity as well, and set yourself up for bad arthitic in the future.
Joemoplata
6/29/09 12:05:56PM

Posted by Svartorm

Good advice here. I just want to make sure you understand that you're giving up "quality of life" by doing most hard body training. Your hands, shins, etc become basically calcified and dead from doing this, so although you can bust bones, bricks, boards, etc, you lose a fair bit of manual dexterity as well, and set yourself up for bad arthitic in the future.



The voice of reason!!

For real guys, just ask any professional or even semi-pro boxer and they can tell you that their hands are wrecked. And they take more care of their hands than most other striking arts. Unless you are going to be on a professional level and can afford the medical bills and can laugh at the pain and disfigurement in your hands and fingers while you sit in your jaccuzi in the back of you limo it's really not worth it to intentionally cause calcification due to microfractures in your hand.

Learn to punch and block the correct way with the correct technique and you won't need to worry about any of this.

At least, that is my opinion and recommendation.
telnights
6/30/09 12:07:14AM

Posted by Svartorm

Good advice here. I just want to make sure you understand that you're giving up "quality of life" by doing most hard body training. Your hands, shins, etc become basically calcified and dead from doing this, so although you can bust bones, bricks, boards, etc, you lose a fair bit of manual dexterity as well, and set yourself up for bad arthitic in the future.



When doing any kind of hard body training you have to take in to account what are the affects going to be on my body 20 years from now.
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