What happened, Joe?

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pv3Hpv3p
6/15/07 11:34:37AM
i thought that Lauzon was going to make the finals of this show, as I think a lot of people did... And I'm not sure what happened in that fight with Manny...

I don't mean to take anything away from Gamburyan, he did an excellent job of controlling and GnPing his way to the victory, but I expected to see a little more from Joe... It seemed almost as if he didn't have a gameplan, wasn't sure if he wanted to sprawl and brawl or take the fight to the ground...

Or am I just overthinking it, and the fact is that Lauzon is not that good off of his back?

Like I said, I think Manny was very deserving of the win and fought a great fight, and i hope Lauzon comes back stronger than ever... But was anyone else surprised by his performance (or lack there of)?
AchillesHeel
6/15/07 11:44:57AM
I don't think you're over-thinking it. Lauzon's takedown defense just wasn't up to par with Gamburyan's takedowns. Maybe he underestimated him, as Dana White admitted to doing. You're right about Lauzon's jiu-jitsu, he wasn't half as dangerous as Diaz was, fighting from his back. Maynard took Diaz down pretty much at will, just like Gamburyan took Lauzon down.
Mayo
6/15/07 12:49:43PM
I also expected more from Joe. I thought he usually is good on the ground. In fact I thought he wouldn't care about a takedown defence since he feels more at home on the ground. Most of his wins are by submission... after last night's fight I don't view Joe as a ground fighter at all anymore. He didn't even try like Diaz tried.
szucconi
6/15/07 12:56:39PM
I think Joe was not expecting Manny to be as strong as he is. He looked a little shocked to me.
Ydoc
6/15/07 1:01:08PM
Good points. About the fight itself, I hated Joe started off with that crazy kick. It set the whole tempo for the fight and gave Manny his first easy TD. Manny did well at not giving Joe a lot to work with in the sub aspect of it, because the main thing he did was put his head right in Joe's chest, and timed when he'd start attacking just in time so it wouldn't be stood back up. On the feet Joe didn't have much to offer, at one point he was covering his face like Wiman, which didn't make much sense since I didn't see Manny throwing much. Joe's only hilights of that fight were when he escaped that guillitine by barrel rolling and when he got Manny's back in the last round.

Credit to Manny in that fight, he did what he needed to do to win. What Joe needs to work on next is BJJ, sprawling, and maybe add some muscle. I do believe he'll rebound from this and do well... can't wait to see him fight Brandon.
KYGUY07
6/15/07 1:59:35PM
I kinda think lauzon underestimated manny, i know i did i thought he was to small, but i was wrong, i think joe could be a world champion one day, he will be back in the ufc.
Basshandsome
6/15/07 2:50:09PM
I think Joe lost because he is used to being the one going out aggressivly at his opponent. When Manny came out early on Joe with the takedown and GnP, I think Joe was surprised and didn't know what to do from then on.
pv3Hpv3p
6/15/07 3:23:07PM

Posted by Basshandsome

I think Joe lost because he is used to being the one going out aggressivly at his opponent. When Manny came out early on Joe with the takedown and GnP, I think Joe was surprised and didn't know what to do from then on.



have to agree with that, it seemed like Manny really took Joe out of his gameplan, although I don't exactly know what that was
Trapt1nw0nder
6/15/07 3:41:11PM
Manny was just too strong...as soon as Joe got his hands on him,im sure he was like.."im in trouble".......same how Starnes and Swick felt about Okami.......when someone is that strong and controlling,it will just break your will.

I hope Nate has really been working hard on his strength and conditioning so he wont get worn out the way BJ did against the much stronger Matt Hughes.......I got Nate willing a 3rd round Sub.
DoTheMMAth
6/15/07 4:49:26PM
I think Joe's defense from his back was pretty good. He got out of some potentially sticky situations with some flare even (I loved those barrell rolls, if that's what they are called). His defense wasn't the problem, it was that his offense never came out and that he was never in control of the fight as a result. Dana can be so pompous, but I love that he admits when he's wrong and apologized for underestimating Manvel... lord knows I didn't expect him to make it this far either.
Damien6663
6/15/07 8:11:47PM
I was shocked, i thought lauzon and nate were the guys to beat on the show. Lauzon was not as physically strong as mani, which shocked me. I expected the fight to be pretty equal on the feet with joe taking mani down and gnp him to a tko.

Boy was i wrong, i think that high kick was a really bad idea so early in the fight, looked to me like me seemed a lil tired when they finally got back to the feet, he might have blown his wad surviving on bottom after he gave mani the first td with that ridiculously bad high kick.
Damien6663
6/15/07 8:12:57PM
Oh and yes joe's guard defense was bad, he got passed with regularity, and did not go for many submissions from his back, what he did go for seemed sloppy and half assed.
hippysmacker
6/15/07 11:12:24PM

Posted by szucconi

I think Joe was not expecting Manny to be as strong as he is. He looked a little shocked to me.



Manfred
6/15/07 11:22:10PM
From Joe:
(Link)

"I think I was too patient in the fight and it hurt me in the long run. There have been times in the past when I have been overly aggressive and taken chances I maybe shouldn’t have. Sometimes they work out beautifully and other times they get me in trouble (shooting in too quickly on Cole at the beginning of Round 1 is a good example). I allowed Manny to control because I didn’t take enough chances for the first two rounds. In the third round, I utilized a sweep on Manny that I like a lot from the bottom of half guard. I was able to pass his guard, take side mount, then mount and finally take his back''

I was impressed with his defense on his back though. blocked/dodged nearly everything Manny threw. I also loved his fron headlock escape. He'll be back.
ButterBalls
6/16/07 12:57:40AM
I know a guy who trains with Lauzon, he usually gives me pretty good info on him.

He told me about 2 months before the Pulver fight Joe had been signed to the UFC....then right after the fight, he told me they signed Joe to a 3 fight deal, then shorty there after that he was going to be on TUF 5 (under the condition I not tell anyone).

Joe still has fights left on his contract. His brother Danny doesn't though. Joe will be back.
Manfred
6/16/07 1:44:14AM
I hope (and think they will) give Dan another shot. Even though he lost, he did pretty well in his debut against Fisher.
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