GSP The Current World Number 1.... Really?

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » GSP The Current World Number 1.... Really?
Next Page »
POLL: Do you see my point
Yes but he's still number 1 until beaten 45% (14)
Yes and the clock on his dominance is ticking 26% (8)
No, but give it a little longer 0% (0)
No cause he's still unbeaten so he should be number 1 23% (7)
Other 6% (2)
jjeans
6/28/12 12:59:08PM
I fancy an argument

Does anyone actually still rank GSP the world number 1?

His last 3 wins have been Dan Hardy, Josh Koscheck and Jake Shields

His last fight was over 15 months ago when he lost 2 rounds against a guy who never really found a home at 170.
The Koscheck fight has proven to be his only relevant fight in the last 3 years
And Dan Hardy couldn't land a victory in almost 2 years

So how is GSP still number one? Can you even rank him in a top 10?

The Supposed number 2 in the world is 2-0 in the 15 months GSPs been out with wins over Diaz and Stun-Gun

The number 3 is probably Hendricks Who is 3-0 in the time GSPs been out

The number 4 - Kampmann is also 3-0

So how, if rankings are all about current fighters, the CURRENT Top 10. How is GSP number 1?

If Ed Herman beats Jake Shields, personally GSP won't even be in my top 10 as he won't be current and the majority of his wins wouldn't even really be relevant.

What do you guys think?

How long can you have a guy on the shelf till he's no longer relevant? Especially as all the guys he beat no longer find themselves in the top 5 heck they've even fallen out of the top 10
Poor_Franklin
6/28/12 1:14:46PM
if i dropped him from #1, it would be due to inactivity, not his last few opponents
JLS1980
6/28/12 1:15:31PM
I still think he's number one. But I'm also a big fan of GSP so maybe I'm a little biased when it comes to his rankings.

If you don't have him #1 well who do you have as #1? I say the only argument you can have is that Condit should be. He hasn't exactly been the most active fighter himself. It sucks that he's been on the shelf for so long but this is a serious injury he suffered. He'll be back in November to show why he's #1. IMO he beats Condit no problem.
jjeans
6/28/12 1:22:29PM

Posted by JLS1980

I still think he's number one. But I'm also a big fan of GSP so maybe I'm a little biased when it comes to his rankings.

If you don't have him #1 well who do you have as #1? I say the only argument you can have is that Condit should be. He hasn't exactly been the most active fighter himself. It sucks that he's been on the shelf for so long but this is a serious injury he suffered. He'll be back in November to show why he's #1. IMO he beats Condit no problem.



My personal top 5 =

1. Johnny Hendricks
2. Carlos Condit
3. Martin Kampmann
4. GSP
5. Josh Koscheck

I try not to let my biased view get in the rankings (or else we'd see Koscheck higher) and I only use who could beat who when I think both fighters should be at a certain spot (My MW is a prime example so many people are at the same point)
kopower
6/28/12 1:24:32PM
He's definitely slipped down a few spots, mainly due to inactivity. I would have still had A. Silva and Jon Jones slightly above GSP before the layoff. If GSP can come back and beat Condit, and/or Diaz, I'd put him above Jones, for now.
JLS1980
6/28/12 1:31:14PM
Oh I don't have him as the #1 pound for pound, just WW #1.
prophecy033
6/28/12 1:38:27PM
Hendricks wouldn't be higher than 3rd on my list and I'd still have GSP 1st and Condit 2nd because I think GSP is better than Condit

1. GSP
2. Condit
3. Hendricks
4. Kampmann
5. Kos
kopower
6/28/12 1:42:59PM

Posted by JLS1980

Oh I don't have him as the #1 pound for pound, just WW #1.



I did the same. I thought we were talking p4p. It's arguable he's still #1 WW then.
JLS1980
6/28/12 1:46:29PM
Hendricks wouldn't be higher than 3rd on my list and I'd still have GSP 1st and Condit 2nd because I think GSP is better than Condit

1. GSP
2. Condit
3. Hendricks
4. Kampmann
5. Kos

except with Koscheck. Your top 4 are in the same order as mine. #5 Nick Diaz IMO. I realize Nick isn't eligible to be ranked because of suspension, that's just where I have him.
airkerma
6/28/12 2:19:21PM
In my head Nick Diaz is still out there...but only in my head.
Budgellism
6/28/12 3:19:57PM
He's number 1 until someone beats him imo.
ghandikush
6/28/12 3:25:29PM
GSP is number 1 EASILY..... this person is 3-0 on a win streak blah blah blah and 7-2 in their last 9 would be the point I have to make.

Dont ever rank these guys above GSP because the only reason he hasnt kicked all their asses is a knee sideline. You only hate his dry humping. If you care THAT much about rankings to only include active guys then he wont be on the list but remember he has kicked any and every ass he ever fought and that includes much stiffer competition than any of these flunkies.
K4RP3NT3R
6/28/12 4:01:23PM
After a certain amount of time, inactivity has to have an effect on the rankings. The effect, of course, being a drop on the rankings list. The question is, how long until that drop is justified. GSP was the champ, so he was the obvious choice for the number one position. He has been out over a year, but will be back soon so I guess it doesn't matter at this point. He can keep the number one spot this time. I would say anything over 18 months justifies a drop in the rankings.

Two things have annoyed me as of late:

One - The purpose of an interim champion is so there is an active champion while the true champion cannot compete for whatever reason. In the case of the WW division, Condit won the interim belt and decided to wait for GSP which makes the belt completely pointless. This brings me to number 2.

Two - The past few years, after winning a belt, many champions have been waiting nearly a year to defend that belt. I understand there are reasons, such as injuries, which may play roles in these delays, but I think a champion should defend their belt no less than twice a year. There needs to be a limit to how long a champion can sit idle. If GSP cannot compete in November, like recently stated, he should be forced to vacate his title. Condit would then be named the WW champ.
shaneTpain
6/28/12 4:13:51PM
GSP is #1 & will always be #1
so get used to it bro
jjeans
6/28/12 5:32:00PM

Posted by ghandikush

. You only hate his dry humping. If you care THAT much about rankings to only include active guys then he wont be on the list but remember he has kicked any and every ass he ever fought and that includes much stiffer competition than any of these flunkies.



Woah.

Wait... Really? REALLY?

Are you f***ing serious? Your breaking a lot of forum rules here
Posting opinion as fact, fighter bashing.

When did I ever. Ever. say I hated his dry humping? When did I ever mention his fighting style? Are you trying to be a troll? When did I disrespect him? I didn't disrespect anyone in my post, not you. Not GSP. Not anyone.

Think before you gonna make opinions about me. Listen to me on podcasts I'm on before you ever mention me talking about "dry-humping"

K4RP3NT3R I see your points and I feel these are the issues I'm trying to raise

shaneTpain haha I'm used to it and have no problem with it

ghandikush I expect a reply.
ghandikush
6/28/12 6:20:11PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by ghandikush

. You only hate his dry humping. If you care THAT much about rankings to only include active guys then he wont be on the list but remember he has kicked any and every ass he ever fought and that includes much stiffer competition than any of these flunkies.



Woah.

Wait... Really? REALLY?

Are you f***ing serious? Your breaking a lot of forum rules here
Posting opinion as fact, fighter bashing.

When did I ever. Ever. say I hated his dry humping? When did I ever mention his fighting style? Are you trying to be a troll? When did I disrespect him? I didn't disrespect anyone in my post, not you. Not GSP. Not anyone.

Think before you gonna make opinions about me. Listen to me on podcasts I'm on before you ever mention me talking about "dry-humping"

K4RP3NT3R I see your points and I feel these are the issues I'm trying to raise

shaneTpain haha I'm used to it and have no problem with it

ghandikush I expect a reply.



Fact is that he beat stiffer competition than anyone at ww in the world. Fact is that noone has a win streak like his currently.

What is breaking the rules? Where is fighter bashing?

He cant just drop in the rankings for inactivity if he was a dominant, dominant #1

Remove him until someone eclipses where he was as a win streak and dominant fighter.

I assumed you were hating on GSP just like everyone else has been lately for domination without finish.
jjeans
6/28/12 6:57:31PM

Posted by ghandikush


Posted by jjeans


Posted by ghandikush

. You only hate his dry humping. If you care THAT much about rankings to only include active guys then he wont be on the list but remember he has kicked any and every ass he ever fought and that includes much stiffer competition than any of these flunkies.



Woah.

Wait... Really? REALLY?

Are you f***ing serious? Your breaking a lot of forum rules here
Posting opinion as fact, fighter bashing.

When did I ever. Ever. say I hated his dry humping? When did I ever mention his fighting style? Are you trying to be a troll? When did I disrespect him? I didn't disrespect anyone in my post, not you. Not GSP. Not anyone.

Think before you gonna make opinions about me. Listen to me on podcasts I'm on before you ever mention me talking about "dry-humping"

K4RP3NT3R I see your points and I feel these are the issues I'm trying to raise

shaneTpain haha I'm used to it and have no problem with it

ghandikush I expect a reply.



Fact is that he beat stiffer competition than anyone at ww in the world. Fact is that noone has a win streak like his currently.

What is breaking the rules? Where is fighter bashing?

He cant just drop in the rankings for inactivity if he was a dominant, dominant #1

Remove him until someone eclipses where he was as a win streak and dominant fighter.

I assumed you were hating on GSP just like everyone else has been lately for domination without finish.



Hendrick's win streak is starting to shape up admittedly it's not GSP's but he only has one loss on his record.
And as for no one has a win streak like his ill assume you mean for WW only.

Breaking the forum codes. You called the new tier of fighters flunkies. I once said Dennis Kang is overrated and got warned.

The whole point of my post was pretty much saying after how long is he no longer the number 1. By your logic if Anderson Silva retires tomorrow. He'll stay Number 1 until someone else defends the title as many times as him are you not?

"He cant just drop in the rankings for inactivity if he was a dominant, dominant #1

Remove him until someone eclipses where he was as a win streak and dominant fighter. "

So if he never fights again he won't move in the current rankings at all?


================================


For the record according to Fight Matrix. GSP will no longer be listed in the Current Rankings of the 23rd of July. As it will have been over 450 days since his last fight.
jjeans
6/28/12 7:04:03PM

Posted by Budgellism

He's number 1 until someone beats him imo.



Same goes for you then Budge. If Jon Jones never fights again, than by that logic he will be number 1 until he dies or retires from the sport?

Basically I'm asking at what time do you say right he's been inactive for x period he's no longer beaten relevant guys it's time to drop him.

As I just said according to Fight Matrix. GSP will no longer be listed in the Current Rankings of the 23rd of July. As it will have been over 450 days since his last fight.

Again I'm not trying to bash anyone on here.

It just feels some people are saying a fighter once hits number one spot could never fight again, not retire or anything and still be ranked number one because of what he did 8 years ago.
FlashyG
6/28/12 7:25:44PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by Budgellism

He's number 1 until someone beats him imo.



Same goes for you then Budge. If Jon Jones never fights again, than by that logic he will be number 1 until he dies or retires from the sport?

Basically I'm asking at what time do you say right he's been inactive for x period he's no longer beaten relevant guys it's time to drop him.

As I just said according to Fight Matrix. GSP will no longer be listed in the Current Rankings of the 23rd of July. As it will have been over 450 days since his last fight.

Again I'm not trying to bash anyone on here.

It just feels some people are saying a fighter once hits number one spot could never fight again, not retire or anything and still be ranked number one because of what he did 8 years ago.



Personally I don't see inactivity as a big reason to drop anyone in the rankings as long as the person is still intending to return to the sport.

If you think Hendricks or Condit are likely to beat GSP upon his return, by all means rank them ahead of him, but to lower him exclusively because he hasn't fought in a while makes it seem like the makers of the rankings are just getting bored.


Adrenaline
6/28/12 7:28:12PM

Posted by jjeans



It just feels some people are saying a fighter once hits number one spot could never fight again, not retire or anything and still be ranked number one because of what he did 8 years ago.




That is not what anyone is saying, you are thinking too hard JJ.


GSP is the UFC WW champion, he has not been relieved of that position by the UFC for inactivity so I could really care less what Fight Matrix's policy is on inactive fighters. As long as GSP holds the title he is #1. And quite frankly, any ranking that does not have the champion listed as #1 holds little credibility in my eyes. I understand what you are saying about inactivity but what practical sense does it make to remove GSP from the top ten only to put him back in there after he defends his title (win or lose). I'm not a GSP fan but I can say that he is still likely the best WW in the world solely based on skill alone, I don't care what he has done in the past, I can still see him beating everyone on the roster on any given day, whether he will or not remains to be seen but to ignore a fighter of GSP's caliber for the sake of "current" rankings doesn't make any sense to me. Everyone knows he is a shoe in top 5, and likely #1 still so why dance around the subject because he has been inactive.
K4RP3NT3R
6/28/12 7:37:28PM
I understand what everybody is saying but where do you draw the line? How long do they sit out before dropping in the rankings? Royce Gracie was #1. Unbeaten in the UFC. Should he have been ranked number #1 when he returned to fight Hughes at UFC 60?
ghandikush
6/28/12 8:12:34PM
Hendrick's win streak is starting to shape up admittedly it's not GSP's but he only has one loss on his record. And as for no one has a win streak like his ill assume you mean for WW only. Breaking the forum codes. You called the new tier of fighters flunkies. I once said Dennis Kang is overrated and got warned. The whole point of my post was pretty much saying after how long is he no longer the number 1. By your logic if Anderson Silva retires tomorrow. He'll stay Number 1 until someone else defends the title as many times as him are you not? "He cant just drop in the rankings for inactivity if he was a dominant, dominant #1 Remove him until someone eclipses where he was as a win streak and dominant fighter. " So if he never fights again he won't move in the current rankings at all?

Youre digging way way too deep into this.

1, absolutely noone at WW compares to GSP's win streak or resume by a long shot
2, GSP has not retired, he has been injured, and in 450 days noone has been able to beat his recent streak
3, the reason you got warned about Denis Kang when you said nothing wrong whatsoever is because the playground pandered to their new ownership and sponsors, they know now it was a horrible mistake to take shit that far because half their major posters turned on them and got banned.

Anything else in question?

IMO I would keep GSP at WW rankings at #1 and potentially drop pr remove him from P4P... Its pretty obvious he has been surpassed by Silva and Jones
pmoney
6/28/12 8:15:55PM
Great post Jay, I like your outside the box thinking! Although, I suppose it's not so out there.

I personally have GSP at #1 by default, inspite of all the awesome points you have made. His record and run at WW is immaculate. I actually view his record as the standard by which all others are judged. He's avenged all of his losses, and everyone he has faced since. Dominick Cruz recently entered GSP status.

I do think GSP has some danger ahead of him when he comes back though. He will face some well rounded competition, especially Condit, Kampmann and Diaz. GSP's game has always been outwrestling the striker and outstriking the wrestler. Those three all have good striking and grappling. Factor in the long layoff, and that he wasn't looking too good against Shields, eye poke be damned... Who knows how this injury will effect him, or if he can come back 100%?

Like I said earlier, I have to rank him #1 by default. I wouldn't be surprised if he lost when he comes back, but I wouldn't be surprised if he extended his reign either.
Budgellism
6/28/12 9:01:05PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by Budgellism

He's number 1 until someone beats him imo.



Same goes for you then Budge. If Jon Jones never fights again, than by that logic he will be number 1 until he dies or retires from the sport?

Basically I'm asking at what time do you say right he's been inactive for x period he's no longer beaten relevant guys it's time to drop him.

As I just said according to Fight Matrix. GSP will no longer be listed in the Current Rankings of the 23rd of July. As it will have been over 450 days since his last fight.

Again I'm not trying to bash anyone on here.

It just feels some people are saying a fighter once hits number one spot could never fight again, not retire or anything and still be ranked number one because of what he did 8 years ago.



He has every intention of returning though. GSP is returning to the sport and he's doing it this year. I think you're jumping the gun big time here. Sure, he's been out for 18 months or whatever it is, but does that take away from what he's already accomplished? You're talking like the guy hasn't fought in over 3 years or something Jay.

GSP has run through every fighter he's faced since he was upset by Serra way back in '07. He's beaten number 2 ranked guys for years now and has made it seem easy. You can't diminish those accomplishments because he's been injured for an extended period of time. When he retires or when he loses he will drop in the rankings. If he doesn't fight for years it will affect his rankings, sure but that hasn't happened.

In my honest opinion, ranking Johny Hendricks at number 1 is just plain ridiculous. Like yourself, I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything, that's just my opinion and clearly the opinion of the majority of posters on this thread.

Fightmatrix also has Bibiano Fernandes as the number 2 Bantamweight in the world right now. I don't go by anything they say or do to be honest.


It just feels some people are saying a fighter once hits number one spot could never fight again, not retire or anything and still be ranked number one because of what he did 8 years ago.


I don't believe anyone is saying this. If any fighter didn't fight for 8 years no one here would even mention him, let alone rank him as number 1. I personally believe you're over exaggerating the situation to help your point.

And on another note that doesn't involve me in the slightest, I don't see the fighter bashing you were talking about in ghandkush's post.
cowcatcher
6/29/12 1:33:41AM

Posted by ghandikush

3, the reason you got warned about Denis Kang when you said nothing wrong whatsoever is because the playground pandered to their new ownership and sponsors, they know now it was a horrible mistake to take shit that far because half their major posters turned on them and got banned.




That is a wrongitude. I'm not even sure where you're getting this info.


I didn't see any fighter bashing that was worth mentioning in ghandikush's post either, we've loosened the reins quite a bit around here, and I didn't blink at anything that was said.
cowcatcher
6/29/12 1:38:53AM
GSP is still #1 in my book. If he was taking a hiatus from the sport for reasons other than injury it might be different, but he plans on coming back as soon as he's rehabbed. If he hadn't had such an impressive win streak, or someone else was in the throws of one that rivaled his I might say different as well.

Any questions about where he stands will get answered soon enough, and I think there is definitely reason to worry about him not being the same fighter as he was before the injury, but I can't find a reason for anyone to overtake him right now, and I'd need that to do so.
infestructure
6/29/12 3:52:29AM
GSP is current number one. I hate to admit it though. I hope Rory and him develop beef like JJ and Evans.
lohmann
6/29/12 4:14:42AM

Posted by jjeans

Hendrick's win streak is starting to shape up admittedly it's not GSP's but he only has one loss on his record.
And as for no one has a win streak like his ill assume you mean for WW only.



If we are going to highlight what would make Johny Hendricks #1, then we would have to focus on the Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck fights I assume. Those are both fighters Georges St. Pierre beat when they were in peak form; Koscheck particularly had two lackluster outings before Hendricks got a very narrow decision win. I would argue Fitch was still peaking, but the wins he had accrued were nowhere near the volume of wins he had picked up before he fought St. Pierre for the belt.

I think it's problematic; time is becoming an issue for Georges St. Pierre, and I find a real argument for dropping him from the rankings. The reason I have avoided doing so is because the one fighter that could supplant him is taking a hiatus, however long it takes, before he comes back. I might have pushed Condit to #1 if he had taken a fight after beating what was probably the #2 at the time, Nick Diaz. The real decision over who is #1 is going to be made when St. Pierre and Condit meet in the Octagon and the winner of that will be the undisputed king of the division.
jjeans
6/29/12 11:25:14AM

Posted by K4RP3NT3R

I understand what everybody is saying but where do you draw the line? How long do they sit out before dropping in the rankings? Royce Gracie was #1. Unbeaten in the UFC. Should he have been ranked number #1 when he returned to fight Hughes at UFC 60?



This question was ignored and it kinda highlights what I have to say, Between December 16, 1994 and May 1, 2000 Royce went 1-1. Because he was unbeaten and because he was number 1 when he didn't fight for a while, did he lose his position. Yes of course he did because the people who he fought became irrelevant.

Where do you join the line?

Since GSP's last loss he's what 8-0?

Koscheck went 6-2 before rematching GSP
Hughes is 3-3 till now
Serra is 1-2
Fitch is 5-1-1
Penn is 3-3-1
Alves is 2-3
Hardy is 1-3
Koscheck is 2-1
Shields is 1-1

The guys he's beaten minus Koscheck no longer find themselves as the top of the division.

At the moment it was only 1 year ago so we can look at him and say, he beat the top end of the division. However if he doesn't fight Condit in November, I think it will be even harder to argue that GSP is still number 1 as the division has changed all around him.
lohmann
6/29/12 11:57:23AM

Posted by jjeans

This question was ignored and it kinda highlights what I have to say, Between December 16, 1994 and May 1, 2000 Royce went 1-1. Because he was unbeaten and because he was number 1 when he didn't fight for a while, did he lose his position. Yes of course he did because the people who he fought became irrelevant.

Where do you join the line?

Since GSP's last loss he's what 8-0?

Koscheck went 6-2 before rematching GSP
Hughes is 3-3 till now
Serra is 1-2
Fitch is 5-1-1
Penn is 3-3-1
Alves is 2-3
Hardy is 1-3
Koscheck is 2-1
Shields is 1-1

The guys he's beaten minus Koscheck no longer find themselves as the top of the division.

At the moment it was only 1 year ago so we can look at him and say, he beat the top end of the division. However if he doesn't fight Condit in November, I think it will be even harder to argue that GSP is still number 1 as the division has changed all around him.



If your comparison is between Georges St. Pierre and Royce Gracie and the irrelevancy of fighters they had faced, I think the problem is that the eight fighters you listed are vastly more relevant today than the fighters Royce Gracie was beating just the day after one of them lost. Koscheck, Fitch, and Shields are still top ten welterweights; Penn's last three fights were against 3-1 Hughes, 5-0 Fitch, and Nick Diaz, with Rory McDonald slated to fight The Prodigy later this year.

I think the sport has moved into an era where being the UFC champion makes you the sport's top fighter, for any weight class. (A great example is that Demetrious Johnson or Joseph Benavidez, fighters with one victory at flyweight, are already considered two of the best flyweights.) Right now, Georges St. Pierre and Carlos Condit co-own that honor and I am patient enough to wait for them to sort out who is the best at 170.

My question for you: if Georges St. Pierre wins his first fight back - and I would assume it is against Condit, Hendricks, or Kampmann - would you immediately push him back to the top? Most would, so why bother removing him from that spot?
Pages: [1] 2
Related Topics