Why I think GSP should not move up

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » Why I think GSP should not move up
NatedawgThaM
2/15/08 9:59:11PM
IMO GSP is only a monster at WW because he's a in weight class full of elite grapplers/wrestlers. He has extremely long limbs which makes it hard for the other grapplers to take him down and beat him so that's why he stands out. He has a longer sprawl and a longer reach which makes fighter have to get inside where they have to eat his excellent striking combinations. Sprawling is also easier with longer limbs which means they'll have to beat him on the feet where he will just take them down with his excellent wrestling.

Which is why I think he'd get whooped in other divisions because he gives up that long limbs advantage which is what makes Anderson stand out at Middle weight too because he can pick you apart and knock you out from like a 3 feet distance.

So thats why I think he should stay where he's at. Plus I think the improved Karo with improved striking and wrestling from the last fight and Jon Fitch and Diego, strong wrestlers with good cardio and wrestling/grappling will give him a hard enough time and he will have wars with them that I am looking forward too. But if GSP beats them, he will be the most dominate welterweight of all time...
tuvok500
2/15/08 10:04:50PM
Well, i think GSP is a complete fighter and this is why he can beat you at your own game.

I think he will beat the guys that you mentioned but i think he will go up to try to win the MW belt in 2009.

He told that last year in an interview on UFC all access and he almost told it again non so long ago.

I think he can beat Silva right now but i know that he will try to clean the WW division to make a statement before moving up.

Aaronno9
2/15/08 10:14:16PM
I see what your saying, but to say gsp is only good becouse of his size is totally discrediting him. His striking and wrestling are awesome, and hes out wrestled koscheck, hughes and sherk who are on the same level if not higher than deigo and fitch. He also handled mayhem, whos bigger than him and has a longer reach.
owen1
2/15/08 10:23:04PM
If GSP is right mentally,he can do anything physically.His striking is awesome,his wrestling is incredible and he can fight on the ground.I don't think he should go to mw for a while yet though cause there is alot of good welterweights that deserve a shot(fitch and karo)but maybe in a year or two I could see him doing well at middleweight.
Pookie
2/15/08 10:31:12PM

Posted by owen1

If GSP is right mentally,he can do anything physically.His striking is awesome,his wrestling is incredible and he can fight on the ground.I don't think he should go to mw for a while yet though cause there is alot of good welterweights that deserve a shot(fitch and karo)but maybe in a year or two I could see him doing well at middleweight.



He was out stuck by BJ penn.

I believe Silva would outstrike him as well
DevonFoxy
2/15/08 10:38:22PM
I agree GSP would do well against some of the MW's but some will just be too much for him.
One that strikes me right off the bat is Dan Henderson. He has a chin of pure diamond which he has over GSP, has better wrestling then GSP, better striking then GSP, and better Judo then GSP. The one area GSP may have Hendo beaten in is BJJ.
He should just stay where he is but its kinda coming out of now where i don't think GSP has any plans to move to MW so kinda weird to bring this up but still he may do good against some of the UFC middleweights but against top Middleweights in the world not so much.
DevonFoxy
2/15/08 10:40:04PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by owen1

If GSP is right mentally,he can do anything physically.His striking is awesome,his wrestling is incredible and he can fight on the ground.I don't think he should go to mw for a while yet though cause there is alot of good welterweights that deserve a shot(fitch and karo)but maybe in a year or two I could see him doing well at middleweight.



He was out stuck by BJ penn.

I believe Silva would outstrike him as well



Yes Silva would def. strike him to death if he stood with him as well and knees would be eaten. Gsp could lay on him for 5 rounds and thats about it to beat him but The Spider could catch him in a submission sooner or l8er so who knows.
grappler0000
2/15/08 10:50:19PM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

IMO GSP is only a monster at WW because he's a in weight class full of elite grapplers/wrestlers. He has extremely long limbs which makes it hard for the other grapplers to take him down and beat him so that's why he stands out. He has a longer sprawl and a longer reach which makes fighter have to get inside where they have to eat his excellent striking combinations. Sprawling is also easier with longer limbs which means they'll have to beat him on the feet where he will just take them down with his excellent wrestling.

Which is why I think he'd get whooped in other divisions because he gives up that long limbs advantage which is what makes Anderson stand out at Middle weight too because he can pick you apart and knock you out from like a 3 feet distance.

So thats why I think he should stay where he's at. Plus I think the improved Karo with improved striking and wrestling from the last fight and Jon Fitch and Diego, strong wrestlers with good cardio and wrestling/grappling will give him a hard enough time and he will have wars with them that I am looking forward too. But if GSP beats them, he will be the most dominate welterweight of all time...



While having long limbs does have certain advantages, I don't think that is why he is successful...in fact I would go as far to say that he doesn't have much of a reach advantage in the division over all. He just happens to be very well rounded. You could maybe make the argument for the Hughes fight, but I find it difficult to make the argument for his fight against Penn, who has been his biggest challenge to date. According to reports over at the Jackson camp, GSP has been giving Rashad all sorts of trouble in the wrestling realm...and I'm certain that Rashad doesn't give up any reach, so it has more to do with his wrestling skills than the length of his limbs.

As far as moving up to MW, I think GSP would be really successful, with only a couple of fighters giving him problems. Stylistically, Henderson would be a tougher fight for him than Silva. I don't see too many other current fighters in the division giving him much of a fight.
Pookie
2/15/08 10:52:52PM
On a side note, i do think he would beat franklin.

But i will be honest and say that i do think very, very little of franklin.
owen1
2/15/08 10:56:43PM

Posted by Pookie

On a side note, i do think he would beat franklin.

But i will be honest and say that i do think very, very little of franklin.



I think he could beat alot of middleweights but Henderson or Silva would give him alot of problems.I would really like to see him fight Silva though.

*200th post*
DevonFoxy
2/15/08 11:04:04PM

Posted by owen1


Posted by Pookie

On a side note, i do think he would beat franklin.

But i will be honest and say that i do think very, very little of franklin.



I think he could beat alot of middleweights but Henderson or Silva would give him alot of problems.I would really like to see him fight Silva though.

*200th post*



Lindland could take out GSP imo as well.
Pookie
2/15/08 11:04:48PM

Posted by DevonFoxy


Posted by owen1


Posted by Pookie

On a side note, i do think he would beat franklin.

But i will be honest and say that i do think very, very little of franklin.



I think he could beat alot of middleweights but Henderson or Silva would give him alot of problems.I would really like to see him fight Silva though.

*200th post*



Lindland could take out GSP imo as well.



ah yes i do agree.
KeNn
2/16/08 12:17:49AM
GSP is the man, he fights at ww.
Not another weight class, so thats to bad.

It's not like he planned it dude, he trained it.
if thats his game plan then it's working.
NatedawgThaM
2/16/08 12:25:00AM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by NatedawgThaM

IMO GSP is only a monster at WW because he's a in weight class full of elite grapplers/wrestlers. He has extremely long limbs which makes it hard for the other grapplers to take him down and beat him so that's why he stands out. He has a longer sprawl and a longer reach which makes fighter have to get inside where they have to eat his excellent striking combinations. Sprawling is also easier with longer limbs which means they'll have to beat him on the feet where he will just take them down with his excellent wrestling.

Which is why I think he'd get whooped in other divisions because he gives up that long limbs advantage which is what makes Anderson stand out at Middle weight too because he can pick you apart and knock you out from like a 3 feet distance.

So thats why I think he should stay where he's at. Plus I think the improved Karo with improved striking and wrestling from the last fight and Jon Fitch and Diego, strong wrestlers with good cardio and wrestling/grappling will give him a hard enough time and he will have wars with them that I am looking forward too. But if GSP beats them, he will be the most dominate welterweight of all time...



While having long limbs does have certain advantages, I don't think that is why he is successful...in fact I would go as far to say that he doesn't have much of a reach advantage in the division over all. He just happens to be very well rounded. You could maybe make the argument for the Hughes fight, but I find it difficult to make the argument for his fight against Penn, who has been his biggest challenge to date. According to reports over at the Jackson camp, GSP has been giving Rashad all sorts of trouble in the wrestling realm...and I'm certain that Rashad doesn't give up any reach, so it has more to do with his wrestling skills than the length of his limbs.

As far as moving up to MW, I think GSP would be really successful, with only a couple of fighters giving him problems. Stylistically, Henderson would be a tougher fight for him than Silva. I don't see too many other current fighters in the division giving him much of a fight.



I didn't want to come off as you thinking that I thought GSP is only good because of his long limbs and big reach. I think GSP is the most well rounded fighter in the world P4P. I think Fedor can only touch him in well roundedness. He can wrestle just as good as any of the wrestlers in the division and his striking is probably the best besides Marcus Davis and Thiago Alves. So he can really beat anybody at 170.

I just think his size is most of the reason he's so dominant though. I mean were in the well rounded era, nobody is really dominant for a long period of time and I think his size has a huge part of it because if it was just skill vs skill, I think a lot of fighters can beat him and a lot of his wins could be losses. Not taking anything away from his skills but his long limbs and great wrestling help him with a excellent sprawl which make wrestlers have to get deep inside to get the takedown with causes them to eat his great striking as a result.

I just think he gives up that dominant long limb advantage when he moves up and faces Anderson who also thrives off his long reach advantage there because he picks apart people with his excellent striking from about 3 feet away. It's why I think the only fighters that can beat GSP without just a punchers chance is Diego and Fitch because I think you need explosiveness and great wrestling to beat him and have great cardio which both do at 170. Especially in a 5 round fight. I think he could do good at 185 but not be as elite as he is at 170. I don't think he could beat any of the best at 185 even though as we learned last year that anybody can beat anybody on any give day.
JimiMak
2/16/08 12:30:50AM
GSP should concentrate on trying to defend his title a cpl times. He'd do very poorly at a highter weight w/ bigger guys. One of the reasons he stays where he is. He go killed by Serra (a natural lw) who is anyone kidding here?
NatedawgThaM
2/16/08 12:52:16AM

Posted by JimiMak

GSP should concentrate on trying to defend his title a cpl times. He'd do very poorly at a highter weight w/ bigger guys. One of the reasons he stays where he is. He go killed by Serra (a natural lw) who is anyone kidding here?



I agree, after he proves he can beat Serra, he should go one that dominant title defense streak we all though we would go on after he beat Hughes. I say beat Fitch, Karo, and Davis if he can keep that streak alive once that start feeding him better opponents, and then consider this move!
CantAndleDaRiddum
2/16/08 1:25:48AM
gsp v hendo would be sick to see each other wrestling against each other
ocho-cinco
2/16/08 3:22:22AM
GSP trains with some elite fighters, who are above him in weight class. So if he thinks he could move up to 185 and still be elite, then I would believe him. He would not make that move if he was struggling against all thoes bigger guys that he trains with, like Jardine, Evans, Cote, Marquart, and who ever elce I might have missed. I haven't heard from anywhere, but I would guess that he does very well against all these guys, or the thought wouldn't even cross his mind. The fact is, his athletic ability is world class for any sport, His skill set is as well rounded as anyone, and I believe he is physicly strong enough to make the jump. Obviously it would not be easy, but if anyone could do it, you'd have to think it would be St. Pierre.
But first things first, before he goes he has alot of cleaning to do. I'd like to See him beat Serra, Fitch Karo, one more WW (whoever deserves a shot at the time, like Alves or Diego, mabey Kos again), then BJ (if he cleans out LW) Then I think a move makes sense. He has a chance to establish himself as the greatest welterweight ever, so he should do that before he makes any major changes.
BlazinSaddle
2/16/08 3:52:04AM
why would he wanna move up? that would be a bad decision, he has such an advantage at 170 that many dont have, besides its not in his best interest to fight anderson silva
Jackelope
2/16/08 5:20:59AM
Without beating Fitch or Davis I don't see him even seriously going after a move up in weight. It would be like trying to validate a title he doesn't have when he hasn't even validated the title that he DOES have.

When you move up into MW, LHW and HW you gotta start worrying about the clinch game a LOT more than guys at WW and LW do. Those weight classes are or have been dominated by guys with a good greco clinch and some dirty boxing for some time now. (A la Hendo, Couture, Lindland) While GSP's freestyle wrestling takedowns and sprawls are good, I highly doubt he has the greco clinch game to match up with the likes of Hendo or Lindland. He would probably get torn apart in Silva's MT clinch, and he can forget about using his legs against someone like Anderson Silva. Silva's jab and reverse punch would take him backwards off his feet if he tried to beat up on Silva's legs. I'm not too sure on the reach numbers, but I'm more than willing to bet Silva could reach out and touch GSP's chin when GSP is in a low roundhouse.

I duno, maybe in the future, but for right now I agree with the TS and see a move up to MW as devastating for GSP. Not to mention that he took a shot from a lightweight that put him on his ass. Imagine Hendo's overhand right clocking him on the chin... sweet mother of mary have mercy on his soul
loonytnt
2/16/08 2:57:51PM
gsp is a great fighter, all that needs to be said
nickcuc547
2/16/08 3:02:08PM
while i agree gsp would be a good middleweight, he still has a lot to prove at 170, the guy was champ and didnt even defend his title once. he's only 26 so he has time to move up, let him string a few defenses in a row against tough guys in the division like karo, fitch or even kos again, he still has a lot to prove at ww.
JimiMak
2/16/08 5:51:57PM
I also wanna make sure you all knwo I'm not slagging on GSP. He's really good where he's at. There area a lot of, even dominant, fighters I don't think should move weight class. Part of being a smart fighter is recognizing where you fit in. Most fighters I think should remain where they're at, or move down. I don't think almost anybody fights too light. Or they should clear a division. Even that takes time and you've got new challengers by the time you're done. Rarely is a move up a good idea.
Rush
2/16/08 8:55:35PM

Posted by Pookie

He was out stuck by BJ penn.






eye poke


fedorwins1
2/16/08 9:43:33PM
GSP should beat Serra and then defend against Fitch and Karo and a few others before he moves up IMO. If he beats those guys then he should move up. Silva and GSP would be a war and I don't know who I would pick to win, GSP vs Franklin I think GSP would take Franklin down and GNP the whole fight like he did vs Koscheck. The only fight I'm almost certain GSP couldn't win is vs Henderson; Henderson has crazy power and amazing wrestling.
JimiMak
2/16/08 10:55:34PM

Posted by fedorwins1

GSP should beat Serra and then defend against Fitch and Karo and a few others before he moves up IMO. If he beats those guys then he should move up. Silva and GSP would be a war and I don't know who I would pick to win, GSP vs Franklin I think GSP would take Franklin down and GNP the whole fight like he did vs Koscheck. The only fight I'm almost certain GSP couldn't win is vs Henderson; Henderson has crazy power and amazing wrestling.



You have to be kidding. GSP could hang w/ the middle of the division, but Franklin would kill him, Silva would make him unrecognizable, Marquart would make him look foolish. Any thoughts of him moving up are pure lovers trying to make him out to be more than he is. Tell ya what, let him win the belt and defend it a cpl times, then we'll talk. He's still not done that.

And I still stand by my comment that he, like most fighters, has no business moving up.
fedorwins1
2/17/08 12:27:56PM

Posted by JimiMak


Posted by fedorwins1

GSP should beat Serra and then defend against Fitch and Karo and a few others before he moves up IMO. If he beats those guys then he should move up. Silva and GSP would be a war and I don't know who I would pick to win, GSP vs Franklin I think GSP would take Franklin down and GNP the whole fight like he did vs Koscheck. The only fight I'm almost certain GSP couldn't win is vs Henderson; Henderson has crazy power and amazing wrestling.



You have to be kidding. GSP could hang w/ the middle of the division, but Franklin would kill him, Silva would make him unrecognizable, Marquart would make him look foolish. Any thoughts of him moving up are pure lovers trying to make him out to be more than he is. Tell ya what, let him win the belt and defend it a cpl times, then we'll talk. He's still not done that.

And I still stand by my comment that he, like most fighters, has no business moving up.



Agree to disagree.
Ordep
2/17/08 12:57:07PM
geeeeeez

let him win the title...defend it (never done it ) at least 3 times and then if he want to get KOed by Hendo or Silva then let him move. How come that people is saying that the only optios he has is Anderson if he hasn't avenged Serra's lost so if he loses again the nutthugging will be over?

Marcus Davis WW Chmp 2009 ---> write this down
fedorwins1
2/17/08 1:24:18PM

Posted by Ordep

Marcus Davis WW Chmp 2009 ---> write this down



Yeah I'll remember that.....
Related Topics