Grice fight was prematurely stopped

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jiujitsufreak74
2/8/09 2:22:45AM
worst stoppage i have ever seen. the reason why it is so bad is because Veach was hurt 5x as worse when Grice was on top of him, but as soon as Veach landed one shot on a downed Grice it was over. how about a little consistency?

Aether
2/8/09 2:28:15AM
come complain in my thread!

troy waugh!!! GRRRRRRR

Damn I got robbed. I guess people don't like reading my 5 paragraph long posts
lohmann
2/8/09 2:32:56AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

worst stoppage i have ever seen. the reason why it is so bad is because Veach was hurt 5x as worse when Grice was on top of him, but as soon as Veach landed one shot on a downed Grice it was over. how about a little consistency?




Terrible stoppage (although not the worst ever; Big John calling out Sakuraba at UFC Japan has yet to be even nearly touched).

Maybe Grice was on his way to losing, but he hadn't lost yet.
postman
2/8/09 2:33:11AM
yeah agreed bad
Aether
2/8/09 2:45:13AM
NSAC and CSAC. More like BALLSAC AMIRIGHT!? But seriously. They suck balls. I hate them so much. Please train judges and refs who have a clue about the sport of MMA.
hippysmacker
2/8/09 3:24:59AM
While I agree that the stoppage was premature, we don't know what would have happened in the next 30 seconds . We also don't know what would happened the rest of the fight. So yes Grice could have won, but also Veach could have.So some definite good points, but instead of " Grice shouldn't have lost ", I guess to me it's more like the " Grice fight was prematurely stopped" .
slapshot
2/8/09 3:39:33AM
It was a little early but he was clearly rocked IMO and the one thing we need to take into consideration is we were not actually inside the ring two feet from the fighters and its hard to second guess what the ref might have seen that made his mind up to stop the fight.

This was far from the worst stoppage Ive seen but I understand the frustration.


TimW001
2/8/09 4:43:29AM
I thought it was fine.



See where his hands were? See his 'Intelligent defense'?
Aether
2/8/09 5:11:28AM

Posted by TimW001

I thought it was fine.



See where his hands were? See his 'Intelligent defense'?



Yeah now let's go ahead and put a gif of Grice punching Veach in the mouth over a dozen times after he dropped him and see which one looks worse. It's not the fact that the stoppage was so horrible, it's the fact that one guy was given 15 punches to recover and the other guy was stopped after taking some hammerfists to his pectoral muscles. It's completely inconsistent.
Wolfenstein
2/8/09 8:10:00AM
I don't think the stoppage was so much poor, as it was inconsistent. The same scenario just played out a minute earlier, but with Veach in Grice's place--and the ref gave him time to recover. Grice was obviously still very much in the fight, so you have to feel for the guy because he just had the fight taken away from him by an overtly protective and inonsistent refferee.

That said, Grice put himself in that position, and he never tried to control posture or cover up. He just looked off to the right like he was in la la land while Veach layed it on him.
theguido
2/8/09 10:32:37AM

Posted by Aether


Posted by TimW001

I thought it was fine.



See where his hands were? See his 'Intelligent defense'?



Yeah now let's go ahead and put a gif of Grice punching Veach in the mouth over a dozen times after he dropped him and see which one looks worse. It's not the fact that the stoppage was so horrible, it's the fact that one guy was given 15 punches to recover and the other guy was stopped after taking some hammerfists to his pectoral muscles. It's completely inconsistent.



Yeah totally gave Veach more og a chance to fight it out than Grice.
tmas
2/8/09 10:39:01AM
protect yourself at all times.............although i agree ;p
cowcatcher
2/8/09 10:44:41AM
the stoppage was fine IMO, he wasnt defending himself, and was eating shots. the problem, as said, is in the fact that veach was given a lot more leeway when he was the one in trouble. i want to go back and rewatch it today, but when the fight was going on live everyone i was with was screaming for the fight to be stopped when veach was on his back.
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/09 10:53:23AM

Posted by cowcatcher

the stoppage was fine IMO, he wasnt defending himself, and was eating shots. the problem, as said, is in the fact that veach was given a lot more leeway when he was the one in trouble. i want to go back and rewatch it today, but when the fight was going on live everyone i was with was screaming for the fight to be stopped when veach was on his back.



the thing is i just want a little consistency. Veach was hurt a lot worse when Grice was GnPing him, so to see the fight stop like that is just infuriating.
cowcatcher
2/8/09 11:01:42AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by cowcatcher

the stoppage was fine IMO, he wasnt defending himself, and was eating shots. the problem, as said, is in the fact that veach was given a lot more leeway when he was the one in trouble. i want to go back and rewatch it today, but when the fight was going on live everyone i was with was screaming for the fight to be stopped when veach was on his back.



the thing is i just want a little consistency. Veach was hurt a lot worse when Grice was GnPing him, so to see the fight stop like that is just infuriating.



im with you on that, and the fact that it busted my parlay makes it sting even more. just to play devils advocate though, veach coming back from the brink(and maybe beyond) to win the fight makes for a good clip on a future "comebacks" dvd.
whardin19
2/8/09 11:24:22AM

Posted by cowcatcher

the stoppage was fine IMO, he wasnt defending himself, and was eating shots. the problem, as said, is in the fact that veach was given a lot more leeway when he was the one in trouble. i want to go back and rewatch it today, but when the fight was going on live everyone i was with was screaming for the fight to be stopped when veach was on his back.



My thoughts exactally.
Franklinfan47
2/8/09 11:55:36AM
I think people are making the mistake of saying the stoppage was bad, when really the stoppage was fair, Grice was pretty much out, the consistency is what was bad. Veach was in basically the same situation and wasnt called. Waugh was being somewhat contradictory with himself.

I think like most, Im just bum hurt my pick Grice lost.
bls1919
2/8/09 12:02:27PM
I think Veach did a much better job "defending himself" while on his back. Granted he was eating shots, but he also was trying to gain control of Grices upper body and arms, and also tried pushing him away right off the bat with his feet. Grice on the other hand wnet down hard and was eating shots with his hands at his sides doing nothing to " intelligently defend" himself. I think it could have gone one for a few seconds longer, but that only ends with Grice out cold.
Gipper
2/8/09 6:40:52PM
feel bad for grice

it was an unbeleivable fight hope can see it again
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/09 7:07:10PM

Posted by bls1919

I think Veach did a much better job "defending himself" while on his back. Granted he was eating shots, but he also was trying to gain control of Grices upper body and arms, and also tried pushing him away right off the bat with his feet. Grice on the other hand wnet down hard and was eating shots with his hands at his sides doing nothing to " intelligently defend" himself. I think it could have gone one for a few seconds longer, but that only ends with Grice out cold.



he got hit twice...give the guy a chance to "intelligently" defend himself. Veach at least had a chance to get out of his situation while Grice dd not.

i chalk up Troy's inconsistency (which is why i think this is a bad stoppage, not for the stoppage itself so much, but more because of the inconsistency) to the fact that Veach's punch landed flush on the buttin and Troy probably figured he was going to be out once he hit the mat. so once Veach landed one or two shots he called. now i don't agree at all as i demonstrated with this topic, but i can see where his mind set was with the difference in consistency.
warglory
2/8/09 8:36:01PM
Grice was NOT intelligently defending himself, he was taking clean shots and his arms were just weakly trying to grab a hold of Veach. Veach on the other hand, while taking many more clean shots, was actively looking for guard and trying to avoid shots. He was cognizant of what was going on, Grice was not. It was a good stoppage.
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/09 8:50:15PM

Posted by warglory

Grice was NOT intelligently defending himself, he was taking clean shots and his arms were just weakly trying to grab a hold of Veach. Veach on the other hand, while taking many more clean shots, was actively looking for guard and trying to avoid shots. He was cognizant of what was going on, Grice was not. It was a good stoppage.



i disagree, but i have to watch the fight over again to be 100% sure
bls1919
2/8/09 8:52:19PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by bls1919

I think Veach did a much better job "defending himself" while on his back. Granted he was eating shots, but he also was trying to gain control of Grices upper body and arms, and also tried pushing him away right off the bat with his feet. Grice on the other hand wnet down hard and was eating shots with his hands at his sides doing nothing to " intelligently defend" himself. I think it could have gone one for a few seconds longer, but that only ends with Grice out cold.



he got hit twice...give the guy a chance to "intelligently" defend himself. Veach at least had a chance to get out of his situation while Grice dd not.

i chalk up Troy's inconsistency (which is why i think this is a bad stoppage, not for the stoppage itself so much, but more because of the inconsistency) to the fact that Veach's punch landed flush on the buttin and Troy probably figured he was going to be out once he hit the mat. so once Veach landed one or two shots he called. now i don't agree at all as i demonstrated with this topic, but i can see where his mind set was with the difference in consistency.



Not to call you out JJfreak but he clearly takes 4-5 hammerfists to the TEMPLE, then a huge left hook slips through. Grice was only going to get hurt more after the hook. IMO
roadking95th
2/8/09 9:11:42PM

Posted by bls1919


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by bls1919

I think Veach did a much better job "defending himself" while on his back. Granted he was eating shots, but he also was trying to gain control of Grices upper body and arms, and also tried pushing him away right off the bat with his feet. Grice on the other hand wnet down hard and was eating shots with his hands at his sides doing nothing to " intelligently defend" himself. I think it could have gone one for a few seconds longer, but that only ends with Grice out cold.



he got hit twice...give the guy a chance to "intelligently" defend himself. Veach at least had a chance to get out of his situation while Grice dd not.

i chalk up Troy's inconsistency (which is why i think this is a bad stoppage, not for the stoppage itself so much, but more because of the inconsistency) to the fact that Veach's punch landed flush on the buttin and Troy probably figured he was going to be out once he hit the mat. so once Veach landed one or two shots he called. now i don't agree at all as i demonstrated with this topic, but i can see where his mind set was with the difference in consistency.



Not to call you out JJfreak but he clearly takes 4-5 hammerfists to the TEMPLE, then a huge left hook slips through. Grice was only going to get hurt more after the hook. IMO




WHAT?!?! Let's count together class. Shot to the jaw drops him. Shot to the trap? Mat maybe? Shoulder? Then the ear. Now the chest. Now the shoulder. Maybe now clipping the chin, but looks more like the chest. One to the face and then the ref stops it. Right away Grice says What? He doesn't go after the ref, like he is fighting him. He is clearly alert.

Oh, I get it. Veach must of either dislocated Grice's shoulder or maybe Grice was out and those chest shots were sort of like CPR. You know, reviving him and stuff

So this is how it went. Jaw, shoulder, ear, OUT. Chest, revived. Shoulder, getting woosie, chest, revived again. Face, over.
jiujitsufreak74
2/8/09 9:19:59PM

Posted by roadking95th

WHAT?!?! Let's count together class. Shot to the jaw drops him. Shot to the trap? Mat maybe? Shoulder? Then the ear. Now the chest. Now the shoulder. Maybe now clipping the chin, but looks more like the chest. One to the face and then the ref stops it. Right away Grice says What? He doesn't go after the ref, like he is fighting him. He is clearly alert.

Oh, I get it. Veach must of either dislocated Grice's shoulder or maybe Grice was out and those chest shots were sort of like CPR. You know, reviving him and stuff

So this is how it went. Jaw, shoulder, ear, OUT. Chest, revived. Shoulder, getting woosie, chest, revived again. Face, over.



After re-watching it that is exactly how i see it too. Grice only got hit with maybe one or two shots that could have done any real damage...and they weren't bombs either.

warglory
2/8/09 10:29:54PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by roadking95th

WHAT?!?! Let's count together class. Shot to the jaw drops him. Shot to the trap? Mat maybe? Shoulder? Then the ear. Now the chest. Now the shoulder. Maybe now clipping the chin, but looks more like the chest. One to the face and then the ref stops it. Right away Grice says What? He doesn't go after the ref, like he is fighting him. He is clearly alert.

Oh, I get it. Veach must of either dislocated Grice's shoulder or maybe Grice was out and those chest shots were sort of like CPR. You know, reviving him and stuff

So this is how it went. Jaw, shoulder, ear, OUT. Chest, revived. Shoulder, getting woosie, chest, revived again. Face, over.



After re-watching it that is exactly how i see it too. Grice only got hit with maybe one or two shots that could have done any real damage...and they weren't bombs either.




It shouldn't matter how many shots land flush though. He wasn't defending himself enough, his opponent was throwing free reign shots, it doesn't matter if the aim wasn't always on target.
slapshot
2/9/09 6:25:56AM
All I know is right after the ref stopped the fight Grice was flat on his back arms spread out and clearly rocked. It was maybe one or two seconds later he started complaining to the ref.

Ive seen fighters recover from being unable to defend themselves quickly before but the rules is if at any point you cant defend its over.

Each fighter is different take nog for instance, Ive seen him take punishment that I know would have stopped the fight if it was anyone else in the same situation. There are a lot of factors that influence a ref and without hearing the ref's side of things I tend to thing it was stopped a little early but thats about it.
Aether
2/9/09 9:27:19AM

Posted by slapshot

All I know is right after the ref stopped the fight Grice was flat on his back arms spread out and clearly rocked. It was maybe one or two seconds later he started complaining to the ref.

Ive seen fighters recover from being unable to defend themselves quickly before but the rules is if at any point you cant defend its over.

Each fighter is different take nog for instance, Ive seen him take punishment that I know would have stopped the fight if it was anyone else in the same situation. There are a lot of factors that influence a ref and without hearing the ref's side of things I tend to thing it was stopped a little early but thats about it.



If you look more closely you'll actually see that when Waugh stepped over Grice he grabbed his arm to stabilize himself and pushed it to the mat, which is why Grice looks spread-eagle. His hands didn't drop, the referee pushed them down as he stepped over him, he complains right away.

Also, as roadking already stated, those hammerfists were not landing on his temple at all, they were landing on his shoulder and his chest. Veach landed only one solid shot, which was the one that went between his arms (which were grabbing Veach's torso trying to pull him down - what I consider to be an intelligent defense given the situation.)

Watch it more closely or in slow motion, his hands didn't drop the ref pushed them down and Veach did not hit him in the head with those hammerfists. The worst hammerfist grazed his head and landed on his shoulder.
gsquat
2/9/09 9:59:33AM
It was especially terrible due to the fact that he let Veach get annihilated earlier in the round. Made me pretty upset.
emfleek
2/9/09 10:07:39AM
How many of you had Grice in your parlay?

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