i need some grappling advice

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MMA117
5/9/07 1:57:16PM
Im a grappler (a nub) and i have good defence but when an opponent gets my back i have trouble breathing w/ my chin down making me weak to choke any advice.

record 8-2 (amature of course) both losses i got choked TFO
MMA117
5/9/07 4:58:12PM
come on guyz
Svartorm
5/9/07 5:06:31PM
Are you pulling your head back as well when you tuck your chin, and cutting off your own airway? "Tucking your chin" is a bit of a misnomer, as you're actually just dropping it to your chest, and not pulling it all the way back.

Honestly, not to be a dick, but I'd work more on not letting someone take your back than worrying about defending the choke once hes there. Work on your fundementals and holding position, and then work on sub defense, would be my advice.
bayonetxwork
5/9/07 6:43:05PM

Posted by Svartorm

Are you pulling your head back as well when you tuck your chin, and cutting off your own airway? "Tucking your chin" is a bit of a misnomer, as you're actually just dropping it to your chest, and not pulling it all the way back.

Honestly, not to be a dick, but I'd work more on not letting someone take your back than worrying about defending the choke once hes there. Work on your fundementals and holding position, and then work on sub defense, would be my advice.



Agreed, regardless if your defense is good, from the sounds of it you do grappling matches. And they will definitely be getting points by controlling your back.
rcg916
5/9/07 8:05:50PM
Try to underhook a heel as they get the hook in, raise your arm enough to create space, and shove your elbow through said space, rolling through on your shoulder... lots of back door escapes, and for sure you keep him from fully getting your back, and maybe you can scramble...

From a collegiate wrestling standpoint thats a great way to keep him off balance. However, Im not trained in jiujitsu, so take it for what its worth.

Either way, Svartorm is right, work on the weakness that gets those guys into back position on you, rather than what to do when you get there. my 2 cents...
Rush
5/9/07 11:12:44PM
I tend to grab their forearm and rest my chin on my fingers. It works for me as I've never been choked.
MMA117
5/10/07 7:01:41PM
Thanx guys
MethodMan
5/11/07 9:18:56AM
work on breath training from positions where you airway is restricted this is the best way to not feel smothered when staked or in funky positions you somtimes find yourself. Dont panic when the person gets you back or tries to sink in a choke this increases your breathing rate try to slow your breathing down to match your opponent then you are only burning the same or less amount of energy defending the choke as the person is putting in trying to get it. Simply get used to the position by giving you back to your training partners once you are comfortable at staying alive and not geting taped out, move onto how to reverse it or make the guy on the bottom or top uncomfortable so he will want to give it up if its going nowhere. With both hooks in or a solid body triangle it can be very hard to reverse but survive long enogh and make things uncomfortable for your opponent and a lot of the time they will give it up looking for another position. Practice the choke a lot yourself when you know the nuiences of when its on or not and when you can get it or not you will instictivly be better at realising when you are in danger and when you can relax and look at improving your own position.
CaseyKrajenka
5/11/07 2:48:44PM
Yeah I'd work on preventing your opponents from taking your back. Not only will this save you points in the match. It will also eliminate the problem of not being able to breathe that way because you won't find yourself in that situation
Northrend
5/12/07 9:36:03PM
Man i'm so bad when people get my back. My moms a big MMA fan and she calls me Trigg cause at a Pankration event I got choked out 2times by a RNC...same guy as well lol. Was fun though.
Svartorm
5/13/07 2:30:35AM
HAHAHA! Your mom even busts on Trigg! Thats classic!

I generally don't have much trouble when someone gets my back because of my body shape, but I have trouble getting out of half-guard if my oppenent is a lot taller than me. Thats really my only "weak" position, which isn't bad all things considered.
MethodMan
5/15/07 5:41:02AM
I am the reverse I am actually quite adept at sweeps from the half guard and keeping it and striking and looking for subs from this position, In fact people have comented that my half guard is better than my full guard, I am not sure if that is a backhanded complement but hey.
ordean
5/16/07 6:39:15PM
My advice would be to train with a guy taking your back. Get used to being there and rotate partners in and let them try and choke you.

Personally I have a problem letting people take my back because my choke defense is good and I get cocky and occasionally take a nap. If thats a problem spot for you train the shit out of it.
richieb19
5/16/07 9:48:12PM
Are you talking Gi or Nogi?
MMA117
5/17/07 1:46:22PM
No Gi... (my gym is a bunch of guys who think there just pajamas, there wrong but its pretty funny)
johny_rotten
6/6/07 11:16:10PM
The defense to the RNC isn't that hard. You need to get your chin as close to your opponets armpit(the opposite side where his hands are) as possible. Keep your hands close to your chest maiking it impossible for your opponet to isolate one with his leg or hand. As soon as his arm comes across your neck/face get both of your hands on that arm(low forearm wrist best place. In one quick motion rip the arm outward(no matter who you are rolling with your 2 arms are more powerfull than one of his.) Once the arm is out stretched you pop your head through his armpit to the out side of his arm. Continue to apply preasure to keep his arm pressed against your ear. Then bridge and roll in to his gaurd.

Things that you shold avoid when someone gets your back: Obviously don't concern your hands with his hooks. Don't hand fight because eventully he will lower a wrist where his legs could possibly isolate the arm. Many people tell you to wing block, but i think it is horrible move. You might not get choked, but you are basicly begging him to arm bar you, or start the arm bar, and then easily sink in the choke.

In my expierience the best thing to do is make him think the choke is there, and keep your hand on your chest. That way you don't waste energy, and you are prepared to get 2 on 1.
jakeovgy
6/11/07 5:13:51PM
something that helps me, never been caught in a RNC choke yet, even though ive only been grappling for about 4 weeks, just keep hand control, two on one maybe that gives you time to pop your neck up, breath, pop it down again
The_Notorious_ZIG
3/17/08 5:37:55PM
I've been grappling about 10 months, but one RNC defense that hasn't been mentioned is bridging back and getting your head on the floor (next to your opponents head above his shoulder). This doesn't allow your opponent enough leverage to choke you as your neck is too high and his back is on the mat. This paired with 2 on 1 hand control and you often can create enough space to start working your way belly to belly and out of trouble. Its a little awkward at first if your not used to it and may go against your instincts as your neck is actually opening up and exposed....but it has worked for me and only my instructor has ever choked me out.

Wow...didn't notice how old this thread was
richieb19
3/17/08 5:53:41PM
IMHO tucking your chin is not the most important thing to thinka about when in backmount. Contol one of his arms, and when his digs into your neck for the choke, put your chin into that direction so it cuts him off. Works for me.
ncordless
3/18/08 2:04:58AM
For a long time I was having the same problem of letting people take my back in BJJ. Coming from a wrestling background, it's taken me a while to automatically fall to my back instead of always landing on all fours.

The aforementioned advice is valid and very useful. If you are like me and have almost no neck, or at least a neck that doesn't make it easy for you to go chin to chest, try tucking to one side a little with your chin into your armpit. This an easier target to get to for your chin, and gives you the opportunity to shoot the arm through if your chin/armpit contact gets broken. By definition, a Rear Naked can't have an arm in. Be aware of transitions to armbars, but I've often found that you can scramble out of the unfavorable position of someone on your back by letting them start the armbar then rolling with it into at least in your opponents guard.

With that said, that is my personal experience as someone who also doesn't have the build to touch your chin to your chest easily. Several previous posters have more BJJ exp. than I.
seanfu
3/21/08 9:24:57PM
Dude I have a big wrestling neck so that might be your problem.
When someone chokes me I'm reallycomfortable cuz I have so much powere to resist the choke in my neck.

Try som wrestling style bridges. Basically get on a mat, support all your weight on your neck and feel, tripod, and move araound. You'll get that trademark wrestler neck.
jgtribbett
3/30/08 11:15:19AM

Posted by rcg916

Try to underhook a heel as they get the hook in, raise your arm enough to create space, and shove your elbow through said space, rolling through on your shoulder... lots of back door escapes, and for sure you keep him from fully getting your back, and maybe you can scramble...

From a collegiate wrestling standpoint thats a great way to keep him off balance. However, Im not trained in jiujitsu, so take it for what its worth.

Either way, Svartorm is right, work on the weakness that gets those guys into back position on you, rather than what to do when you get there. my 2 cents...



i'm a wreslter too but i've trained in jiu-jitsu and waht he said does work...
also when you "tuck your chin" press it up against your shoulder .. not straight down.. (compliments of bas rutten) hahahaha
i tried it a lil while back.. othe rthan not being used to it at first its ok
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