Should Governments Legalize and Tax Marijuana?

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Rush
11/2/08 5:50:09PM

Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA

9 different studies spanning over the last 25 years regarding marijuana and driving

cmill read this






You see, I have a problem web sites like this and it has nothing to do with the subject matter.

First, I hate it when the classical "studies show" line is shown, but there is no reference to the actual study. I picked three random examples of theirs: 1 the link was broken, 2 the link took me to a list of references, 3 a pubmed abstract.

As a scientist I spend many days on pubmed. I just read the abstract and I will point out how facts can get skewed.

This is what the site (the link above) stated about the study.




Researchers at the Dutch Institute for Road Safety Research analyzed blood tests from those in traffic accidents, and found that even people with blood alcohol between 0.5% and 0.8% (below the legal limit) had a five-fold increase in the risk of serious accident. Drivers above the legal alcohol limit were 15 times more likely to have a collisionDrugs like Valium and Rohypnol produced results similar to alcohol, while cocaine and opiates showed only a small but "not statistically significant" increase in accident risk. As for the marijuana-only users? They showed absolutely no increased risk of accidents at all..



I bolded the false or skewed statements. Now, I will admit that I have not read the article, but abstracts are essentially summaries as to what was done and what the results were.

So, from the abstract.
-The study was done using people that were admitted to hospital for car or van accidents.


Cases were car or van drivers involved in road crashes needing hospitalisation


To say that any of the drugs did not show increased risk of accidents is false because all the cases were involved in accidents. The study looked at the association of the severity of trauma and the uses of different drugs, alcohol, etc.

From the abstract:

Increased risks, although not statistically significantly, were assessed for drivers using amphetamines, cocaine, or opiates. No increased risk for road trauma was found for drivers exposed to cannabis. The study concludes that drug use, especially alcohol, benzodiazepines and multiple drug use and drug-alcohol combinations, among vehicle drivers increases the risk for a road trauma accident requiring hospitalisation.


What this means is that accidents were worse when alcohol was used, but the fact remains that all the substances in the study increased the risk of getting into accidents.
Kracker_Jap
11/2/08 6:00:19PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA

9 different studies spanning over the last 25 years regarding marijuana and driving

cmill read this






You see, I have a problem web sites like this and it has nothing to do with the subject matter.

First, I hate it when the classical "studies show" line is shown, but there is no reference to the actual study. I picked three random examples of theirs: 1 the link was broken, 2 the link took me to a list of references, 3 a pubmed abstract.

As a scientist I spend many days on pubmed. I just read the abstract and I will point out how facts can get skewed.

This is what the site (the link above) stated about the study.




Researchers at the Dutch Institute for Road Safety Research analyzed blood tests from those in traffic accidents, and found that even people with blood alcohol between 0.5% and 0.8% (below the legal limit) had a five-fold increase in the risk of serious accident. Drivers above the legal alcohol limit were 15 times more likely to have a collisionDrugs like Valium and Rohypnol produced results similar to alcohol, while cocaine and opiates showed only a small but "not statistically significant" increase in accident risk. As for the marijuana-only users? They showed absolutely no increased risk of accidents at all..



I bolded the false or skewed statements. Now, I will admit that I have not read the article, but abstracts are essentially summaries as to what was done and what the results were.

So, from the abstract.
-The study was done using people that were admitted to hospital for car or van accidents.


Cases were car or van drivers involved in road crashes needing hospitalisation


To say that any of the drugs did not show increased risk of accidents is false because all the cases were involved in accidents. The study looked at the association of the severity of trauma and the uses of different drugs, alcohol, etc.

From the abstract:

Increased risks, although not statistically significantly, were assessed for drivers using amphetamines, cocaine, or opiates. No increased risk for road trauma was found for drivers exposed to cannabis. The study concludes that drug use, especially alcohol, benzodiazepines and multiple drug use and drug-alcohol combinations, among vehicle drivers increases the risk for a road trauma accident requiring hospitalisation.


What this means is that accidents were worse when alcohol was used, but the fact remains that all the substances in the study increased the risk of getting into accidents.



How a bout this....

Don't be under the influence of anything and drive.......

But please Legalize Marijuana.....
Wolfenstein
11/2/08 10:31:50PM
I don't like the idea of any drug being illegal. Personally I don't think people should be able to impose their will on someone else and tell them what they can use and can't use.

The only reason weed is illegal now is because of paper mill lobbyists who didn't like the idea that hemp was strong competition to paper.

A lot of states are beginning to lighten up a little. I know in Massachusetts we're voting on question #22 whether to make possesion of anything under and ounce a fine rather than jail time. It's a good thing in my opinion because I don't think it's so detrimental to society that people go to jail and waste tax dollars on enforcing the law.

Kracker_Jap
11/2/08 11:24:24PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

A lot of states are beginning to lighten up a little. I know in Massachusetts we're voting on question #22 whether to make possesion of anything under and ounce a fine rather than jail time. It's a good thing in my opinion because I don't think it's so detrimental to society that people go to jail and waste tax dollars on enforcing the law.




I agree, it is a waste of tax dollars to send people to jail for poss. under an ounce
cmill21
11/3/08 12:12:37AM

Posted by Kracker_Jap


Posted by Wolfenstein

A lot of states are beginning to lighten up a little. I know in Massachusetts we're voting on question #22 whether to make possesion of anything under and ounce a fine rather than jail time. It's a good thing in my opinion because I don't think it's so detrimental to society that people go to jail and waste tax dollars on enforcing the law.




I agree, it is a waste of tax dollars to send people to jail for poss. under an ounce



You guys still send people to jail for under an ounce? I think we stopped doing that a few years ago.
crushedbacon
11/3/08 2:42:29AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA

cmill you stated your an alcoholic right . Do you think alcohol should be illegal ?



Yep. It ruins lives and damages the body, why should people be allowed to use it? The reason it's legal is so we don't have more of what happend in the 20's.




So what your after is a communist society where people are told what they can and can't used based on prescribed notions? And the reason alcohol is legal and will never be illegal again is because there are multi- billion dollar corporations out there that exclusively sell alcohol an have the power to influence government policy.
We_Todd_Did
11/3/08 4:35:07PM
Wow, did I not warrant a response?
Or is this what it's like to be the elephant in the room?
Not trying to instigate, I just honestly am trying lately to understand the mindset of people who are still so vehemently against marijuana, especially those who have never tried it.I would also love to see if anyone has any evidence substantiating the whole "downfall of society" argument that some people like to put forth.
CwB
11/3/08 7:40:06PM
some of you might have already seen it but it is Jello Biafra (lead singer of Dead Kennedys) telling everyone to grow more pot and alot of reasons why (i doubt all are true)

Grow more pot 1

first three minutes are a little boring

Grow more pot 2
some of this stuff he says is hilarious
Rush
11/3/08 7:42:50PM
The way I look at it is this.

I could care less if they legalize pot. I just don't want to smell it, see it, or see people that are on it. I have enough problems smelling peoples' cigarette smoke or seeing drunken idiots on the street as it is.

If people want to do it in their own homes, then fine, I don't care. However, I don't want to be exposed to it.


As to whether or not I think legalizing and taxing it would be good for governments, well, I'm not convinced that will really be better in the long run, whether it be money, crime, or whatever.
nastshabast
11/3/08 8:08:39PM
GROW MORE POT
Aaronno9
11/3/08 8:16:19PM
I think it should be legal and taxed. I mean, im seeing alot of arguments about how it will effect your driving and what not, but surely if it was ever made legal you wouldnt be allowed to drive under the influence anyway right?
Boo_Radley21
11/3/08 8:17:01PM
After reading most of these posts I'm right in between most of the people debating whether or not chronic should be legal or not.

Let me start by saying that I blaze quite frequently. I didn't used to worry about having it on me when I was smoking outside last year, but now that I'm 18 I have a little more to worry about because I can get criminally charged with it. But even though I'm scared about getting busted everytime I see a cop, I don't think that it should be legal. I think it should be decriminalized.

If pot became legal, we would have to pay taxes on it... and honestly I don't wanna pay taxes on something I can get tax free from friends who sell pot. But if I get caught with some pot on me, I don't wanna get charged and arrested and what not. I would be happier if they just take it away, because if I get caught, that's my own fault and it will teach me to be safer because my money got wasted. That's a perfect punishment IMO.

Now stoners, don't get me wrong. It would be heartbreaking if the po took my chronic, haha, but I just really don't wanna end up paying more, and decriminalizing it seems like the best option right now, and that's what I support.

And as for the topic of driving while seed. I made the decision recently never to do it again because the one time I did, I had a really shitty experience. The only reason I did it in the first place was because my other two friends had been drinking, and while I don't feel good about driving under the influence of anything we did think it would be safer for me to drive than them... I was driving us to another friends house in my buddies car, and when the owner of the car got out to get his hockey stuff, I decided to **** with him and drive around the block in his car. But while I was watching his reaction I didn't see two old ladys in front of me and had to swerve. There's no way of knowing if it happened because I was seed or because I'm dumb, but either way it scared me off of it.


And to close...smoking marijuana is great. All it does is make everything better. You love food, you love music, you will laugh at almost anything, you get more interested in certain things, (like big debates like this) and it keeps you entertained even when you have absolutely nothing to do. Not to mention it gives you a damn good sleep when you burn out and it cures a hang over like nothing else. I am done my rant, VOTE GREEN
Kracker_Jap
11/4/08 10:56:11AM

Posted by Rush

The way I look at it is this.

I could care less if they legalize pot. I just don't want to smell it, see it, or see people that are on it. I have enough problems smelling peoples' cigarette smoke or seeing drunken idiots on the street as it is.

If people want to do it in their own homes, then fine, I don't care. However, I don't want to be exposed to it.


As to whether or not I think legalizing and taxing it would be good for governments, well, I'm not convinced that will really be better in the long run, whether it be money, crime, or whatever.



In my county it is illegal to smoke in a public place park, restaurant, etc and it is also illegal to smoke with in 15 feet of an entrance..... all the bars now have had to build outside smoking areas 15 feet away from the entrances because of the new law

So maybe do this and stop sending people to jail and giving them huge fine for smoking something just as easy to grow as a tomato plant
Rush
11/4/08 11:09:19AM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

In my county it is illegal to smoke in a public place park, restaurant, etc and it is also illegal to smoke with in 15 feet of an entrance..... all the bars now have had to build outside smoking areas 15 feet away from the entrances because of the new law

So maybe do this and stop sending people to jail and giving them huge fine for smoking something just as easy to grow as a tomato plant




It's been like that for years up here. The thing is, I don't want to smell it on the street either. People that smoke (whatever) don't realize that non-smokers can smell that shit from 20-30 feet away. I know there is nothing that can be done outside, but I still don't like it.

We lived in an apt (recently just moved) where the people across from us smoked all sorts of shit all the time. I didn't like the fact I had put a towel under our door at 9am on a Sunday so the fumes didn't come in our apt.

If people want to put toxins into their body for self-enjoyment, that's their business. I just don't want to be exposed to it anywhere at any time. I had to deal with two smokers (my parents) until I moved out and don't want to deal with them ever again.
gartface
11/4/08 11:40:47AM
I don't agree with the legalization of it for many of the reasons posted above, whether it's inherent danger, impairment, etc. I won't get into that since the thread technically isn't about it to begin with, and because there are already 4.5 pages discussing it.

I think as far as taxing it...why wouldn't it be taxed if it's made legal? And are we talking making it legal for medicinal use or recreational(otc) use? If you make it an OTC drug, then of course it's going to get taxed. Sales tax will take whatever your county/state has set it to. But I'm not sure if you're necessarily talking sales tax or federal tax.(clarify please)

As far as Marlboro and big conglomerated tobacco companies being able to sell it better and in greater quantities than your local drug dealer, of course they will. Even though I oppose the smoking or consumption of cannabis period, I would rather people smoke/consume it from a company who is probably going to produce it a little safer than a guy in his home/garden. The bigger companies with more money to invest into research, safety, etc. are going to be less likely to cut the marijuana with chemicals or fake weed.
gsquat
11/4/08 12:14:23PM
I don't not think marijuana should be legal. I also think tobacco should be illegal and the law regarding the legal limit for blood alchohol should be enforced more strictly. I'm talking jail time for being over the limit. Thats what I think. But I guess I a dreamer hoping to be rid of pot-heads, smokers, and drunks.
StorminYourman
11/4/08 1:36:16PM
Do not legalize
I use to love smoking pot (love it)
The difference betwwen alchol and weed is second hand smoke.
Bad parents will smoke around there kids getting them high.The children have no say in this matter.If legalized make a liscense you have to get or something but do not tax it too much.No point in the goverment being too much of a dick about it.
We_Todd_Did
11/4/08 1:41:53PM

Posted by gsquat

I don't not think marijuana should be legal. I also think tobacco should be illegal and the law regarding the legal limit for blood alchohol should be enforced more strictly. I'm talking jail time for being over the limit. Thats what I think. But I guess I a dreamer hoping to be rid of pot-heads, smokers, and drunks.



Well, in a perfect world I personally would hope to be rid of all co-dependency and addiction-related issues.However, what you propose concerning doing away with imbibing almost any non-food substance (unless you want to keep OTC medications legal...which is counterintuitive in this context) is not only unrealistic, but borders on, nay, IS authoritarianism and completely forcing your personal choice (I feel is the key word here) upon others by denying their ability to make that same decision for themselves.This, in effect, implies that your freedom of choice (as well as ability to make an informed decision) is more important than or superior to that of many others, which I feel is not only morally askew and arrogant, but is completely unconstitutional (I'll source it if you'd like).
Does it bother you for people to differ from you in any way?If your concerns are health related and out of concern for the well-being of others, where does it end?Outlaw fatty foods?Risky sports (like MMA, for example)?Unprotected sex?Walking outside without a helmet?Not washing your hands before eating?Controlling what someone is allowed to do with their own body is a slippery slope.Personally, what you seem to consider "utopia" I would consider a living hell, and a reality in which I would want no part.

I will, however, agree that DWI/DUI laws should be adhered to more strictly than they are in many places, and legalizing marijuana should do nothing to change that.However, just throwing people into a cell doesn't reform them.There must also be education, because these people will have to be re-integrated into society.However, you seem to be of the mindset that we can just toss 'em in a cell, throw away the key, and forget about them.I hope that isn't the case.
gsquat
11/4/08 3:14:19PM
I wasn't proposing anything. I was giving a perfect world scenario. I know what abolishing tobacco would do to the world's economy. Just basically bitching about things that disgust me. And that was just the first thought on what needs to be done about strengthening alcohol laws. Not necesarrily what I actually would like to see done. I'd just Iike to see people punished and then regret what they've done enough to knock it off.
masodd
11/4/08 7:38:00PM

Posted by cmill21

No it effects your mood and personality even when not using. Plus the last thing the world needs is more legalized shit that kills you.



weed has never killed anyone that i've heard of
Boo_Radley21
11/4/08 8:17:04PM
I'm rather stoned right now, and couldn't be happier. Haha there's nothing wrong with chron, its just a happy entertaining experience. I'm even watching a Leaf game without throwing up.

But seriously, decriminalizing is the way to go.
Kracker_Jap
11/30/08 2:44:59PM

Posted by Rush

It's been like that for years up here. The thing is, I don't want to smell it on the street either. People that smoke (whatever) don't realize that non-smokers can smell that shit from 20-30 feet away. I know there is nothing that can be done outside, but I still don't like it.

We lived in an apt (recently just moved) where the people across from us smoked all sorts of shit all the time. I didn't like the fact I had put a towel under our door at 9am on a Sunday so the fumes didn't come in our apt.

If people want to put toxins into their body for self-enjoyment, that's their business. I just don't want to be exposed to it anywhere at any time. I had to deal with two smokers (my parents) until I moved out and don't want to deal with them ever again.



So you would support legalizing it if people had to smoke somewhere it would be guaranteed that it no other non-smokers would be subjected to the smell or smoke????

Great I'm happy we can agree
Rush
11/30/08 4:24:13PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

So you would support legalizing it if people had to smoke somewhere it would be guaranteed that it no other non-smokers would be subjected to the smell or smoke????

Great I'm happy we can agree



Let's say I wouldn't support or oppose it.
king_katool
11/30/08 4:54:20PM
regardless if legalize or not im high till i die, and if they did tax it id still buy from the guy down the street
EvenFlow
11/30/08 7:40:55PM
Its a good idea only for the hemp usage, we would be a much richer country if he had hemp at our disposal but the only reason it isnt is because legalizing hemp legalizes cannabis. Small price to pay seeing as how we'd have alternative fuels on most of the cars and dirt cheap clothing and foods. Its just weed anyway, if you dont like it dont smoke it or be around people who do simple as that, you dont stand around someone smoking a cig if you dont smoke, you move away.
EvenFlow
11/30/08 7:43:44PM

Posted by gsquat

I don't not think marijuana should be legal. I also think tobacco should be illegal and the law regarding the legal limit for blood alchohol should be enforced more strictly. I'm talking jail time for being over the limit. Thats what I think. But I guess I a dreamer hoping to be rid of pot-heads, smokers, and drunks.



fascism, gotcha
cloud301336
11/30/08 8:35:43PM
getting high is way better then getting drunk. for example, have you ever heard someone getting killed or killing some one when there high. (not including selling the shit and getting shot). but who here hasn't heard about someone killing another person or killing them selves while there drunk. thats why i think MJ is better then alcohol.

The_Metal_Maniac
11/30/08 8:55:58PM

Posted by EvenFlow


Posted by gsquat

I don't not think marijuana should be legal. I also think tobacco should be illegal and the law regarding the legal limit for blood alchohol should be enforced more strictly. I'm talking jail time for being over the limit. Thats what I think. But I guess I a dreamer hoping to be rid of pot-heads, smokers, and drunks.



fascism, gotcha




That's not fascism. If you are unclear as to what something means, look it up in the dictionary. There are reasons that substances are illegal. However in this country the penalty doesn't always fit the crime. Instead of persecution of petty drug possessions or what not, authority figures should recommend help more often than not. This would help with the over population of our prison systems. If alcohol were made illegal once again it would just give a new form of petty crime. Everything is cause and effect. However in such an economic crisis the legalization of a substance that has been illegal for quite sometime, based on economic value alone makes sense. Making people pay two or three times more than they do now might actually force users to quit and do something constructive with their time like reading a book.
EvenFlow
12/1/08 12:45:03AM

Posted by roncomanjason


Posted by EvenFlow


Posted by gsquat

I don't not think marijuana should be legal. I also think tobacco should be illegal and the law regarding the legal limit for blood alchohol should be enforced more strictly. I'm talking jail time for being over the limit. Thats what I think. But I guess I a dreamer hoping to be rid of pot-heads, smokers, and drunks.



fascism, gotcha




That's not fascism. If you are unclear as to what something means, look it up in the dictionary. There are reasons that substances are illegal. However in this country the penalty doesn't always fit the crime. Instead of persecution of petty drug possessions or what not, authority figures should recommend help more often than not. This would help with the over population of our prison systems. If alcohol were made illegal once again it would just give a new form of petty crime. Everything is cause and effect. However in such an economic crisis the legalization of a substance that has been illegal for quite sometime, based on economic value alone makes sense. Making people pay two or three times more than they do now might actually force users to quit and do something constructive with their time like reading a book.



lol think about it harder if you dont get why thats a fascist-like statement before you say I dont know the word
browneye
12/17/08 1:03:30PM
It should be legalized but not be taxed then their would be world piece no more wars, murders, or anything bad like that cause everyone would be getting high and making peace
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