Gonzaga Vs. Werdum II

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Gonzaga Vs. Werdum II
richieb19
10/31/07 1:34:15AM
Gabriel Gonzaga (8-2-0, 3 KO, 5 Sub) will face off once again against Fabricio Werdum (9-3-1, 2 KO, 6 Sub) at UFC 80. These accomplished grapplers in the MMA community first encountered at Jungle Fight , with Werdum ending the fight in the 3rd via TKO.

Gabriel Gonzaga Vs. Fabricio Werdum 1

Admittedly Gonzaga's ironic head kick knockout over veteran and top contender Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic is nothing short of impressive, are the fans placing too much stock in this single victory... I think so! Lets look over their career records a little closer:

Werdum has notable wins over Alistair Overeem, Tenzig Tedoradze, Ebenezer Braga, Roman Zentsov, Tom Erikson, Gonzaga himself and a recent win over top contender Aleks Emelianenko in the first round. His losses come all by decision, two of which happen to have strong Sambo backgrounds and superior striking, which leads one to believe that it's simply a bad match-up... and an impressive performance against one of the greatest Heavyweights of the era in Nogueira.

Gonzaga has notable wins over... CroCop? Aside from Mirko, the only opponent worth mention would be Lee Hinkle, which is saying something. His losses both come via TKO from Werdum and a legend in Randy Couture...

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a thread to bash on Gonzaga or doubt his abilities, he is definitely a powerful and talented Heavyweight who offers plenty to the mix, I'm simply trying to open some eyes. Some have gone on record already to say that Gonzaga's striking is far superior to Werdum's, however it is aperant in their first encounter that it's not the case, and although it has been four years since then there is no reason to believe it still doesn't hold true, as Werdum has trained with Team CroCop and Chute Boxe to improve his striking even further... and his grappling still seems to be on top after watching his recent match with Nogueira. All the while Gonzaga has sat in the dark beating lesser Heavyweights with God awful striking, but as soon as he throws one kick his striking ability somehow becomes advantageous against everyone?

Werdum has better strking, grappling and conditioning, and even though I'm not counting the young Brazilian out, I don't see how anyone can have him as the favorite. Prediction: Werdum via UD.
loller90278
10/31/07 2:19:01AM
wait, how beat kongo? was it gonzaga? my minds going blank.

excellent points richie but i think i'll have to disagree.
ive become somewhat of a gonzaga fan boy, and i see much more potential in him now than he did 4 years ago. i think gonzagas size is gonna play a huge role in this fight cuz werdum is a rather smal hw
hippysmacker
10/31/07 2:41:10AM

Posted by loller90278

wait, how beat kongo? was it gonzaga? my minds going blank.

excellent points richie but i think i'll have to disagree.
ive become somewhat of a gonzaga fan boy, and i see much more potential in him now than he did 4 years ago. i think gonzagas size is gonna play a huge role in this fight cuz werdum is a rather smal hw



Ritchie your post was written well but Ill gonna go with Loller here. I see Gonzaga winning on the feet, and doing some good GnP on the ground for a UD.
Mastodon2
10/31/07 3:40:22AM
I want to see Fabricio take this. I think he beats Gonzaga in just about every area except pure strength (not always an advantage if you don't know how to use it) and hairyness of back.

As long as Werdum doesn't get disorientated, start to think he is in Pancrase and start winging open hand strikes around he should be good.
CwB
10/31/07 4:09:05AM
the only disagreement i have with your statement is that you say that there is no evidence that gonzagas striking has improved. He koed mirko and broke coutures arm with some brutal head kicks, i think that shows atleast a little that his stand up must have improved.

i always new that gonzaga would lose to couture, and i knew that this would create more confusion on where GG actually stands in the HW division.

IF GG wins he is definately a top ten HW, if He loses his win over Mirko was complete luck.

I see GG winning by GnP, but this is a hard fight to pick a winner.
jgordon85
10/31/07 4:57:00AM
as dana white would say "this is a interesting fight" that is the way i feel napo has gotten better since there last bout. werdum did not look to good in his first match but if you can look good and win fighting arlovski that is saying something. i was impressed with napo's performance against randy. i do not know who to pick for this fight.
hathcock32
10/31/07 6:37:27AM
Gonzaga 2nd TKO GnP
tuvok500
10/31/07 10:38:08AM
the Gonzaga of 2007 -2008 is much better than he was before and i don't see how Werdum can beat him this time !!
i see a 1 way fight for Gonzaga with a win by TKO at the second round !!

Werdum was afraid of AA and the only reason he was able to do the full 3 rounds is because the octogon door was lock and that AA was a sleepwalker !!



djchoice2000
10/31/07 10:48:46AM
wow I didn't know that first fight was that close. I think Gozaga by 1st rd KO he is more polished now then he was then and Werdum has lost his aggressiveness.
Lay_N_Pray
10/31/07 11:31:33AM
Its fine and well you use their MMA career resumes to do comparing, but lets not forget the names Gonzaga put down in grappling tournaments.

Gonzaga knows what it is like to face and defeat competition. His main problem is stand-up, but not striking cause he has brute strength, but rather finding his range and being able to be defensive.

If Gonzaga has improved his range and defense on his feet I seem him taking this fight. He is stronger and better on the ground, and he has power that should not be taken lightly.
richieb19
10/31/07 11:38:33AM

Posted by djchoice2000

wow I didn't know that first fight was that close. I think Gozaga by 1st rd KO he is more polished now then he was then and Werdum has lost his aggressiveness.

It wasn't that close. After the first round Gonzaga started to fall apart.
richieb19
10/31/07 11:50:11AM

Posted by Lay_N_Pray

Its fine and well you use their MMA career resumes to do comparing, but lets not forget the names Gonzaga put down in grappling tournaments.

Gonzaga knows what it is like to face and defeat competition. His main problem is stand-up, but not striking cause he has brute strength, but rather finding his range and being able to be defensive.



Werdum is easily the more accomplished grappler of the two, having a look at them both in ADCC he beat Daniel Gracie, TK, Van Arsdale, Lindland, Pe De Pano, Shoji, Sinosic, Rolles Gracie and others. Not to say Gonzaga didn't do well aswell, being 4-2 and beating big names like Ricco and Pe De Pano. Don't get me wrong, performance in one organization doesn't mean one is a better grappler than the other, Werdum has always been known as a huge threat with his ground-game, as evident in all of his fights, especially against Nogueira where he was basically on the same playing field as Nog goes regarding position and submissions. Gonzaga IS a great grappler, but he doesn't compare to Werum. The only way I see him winning this fight is by taking Fabricio down and being conservative all the way to a decision...
loller90278
10/31/07 12:53:17PM
in the first fight, gonzaga was 10 kilograms lighter than what he is now, and from what i heard he accepted the fight on short notice.

you're right about wrdum training with crocop and now he moved on to chute box, so i hope chute box teaches him to be a little more aggressive.

what im hoping for is that this fight basically turns into a ground war for 3 rounds, but im guessing gonzaga would like to keep it standing
hook_tothe_body
10/31/07 1:36:38PM

Posted by loller90278

in the first fight, gonzaga was 10 kilograms lighter than what he is now, and from what i heard he accepted the fight on short notice.

you're right about wrdum training with crocop and now he moved on to chute box, so i hope chute box teaches him to be a little more aggressive.

what im hoping for is that this fight basically turns into a ground war for 3 rounds, but im guessing gonzaga would like to keep it standing



I agree with you, this would be such an exciting ground fight. These guys know how to do it all on the mat.

But I think you're right when you say Gonzaga may want to keep this fight standing. Gonzaga may think he has a little bit of an edge over Werdum on the feet, while both of them are so good on the ground.

Not like Werdum is helpless on the feet ... but Gonzaga is a big dude, with a lot of power behind those punches and kicks.
CornishMMA
10/31/07 2:00:12PM
GG all day long, its an ok fight but i think they could have made better ones, id prefer to see Werdum fight Kongo and GG rematch CC so he can beat him again in a more predictable fashion
Lay_N_Pray
10/31/07 5:58:52PM
richieb19...you make fantastic points and it is very hard to argue your logic.

So while Werdum is great and I do respect him as a grappler and MMA fighter, I see Gonzaga just being better overall and we can agree to disagree on this point.

Riggeee
12/15/07 6:23:12PM
most people think gonzaga is going to win because of his highlight reel knockout of cc, they probably havent seen werdum fight so they are thinking its an easy fight for gonzaga but it isnt and it has been 4 years since they fought and gonzaga has a pretty strong team to help him win this fight and since that fight with werdum gonzaga did very well....and imo the reason gonzaga lost to couture is because of the takedown that broke his nose it would of been a lot closer if that didnt happen, i believe gonzaga could have beaten couture and now definently can beat werdum with his stand up even if werdum is with chute boxe.
cmill21
12/15/07 6:42:50PM
GG had something over Cro Cop that he didn't have over randy and doesn't have over Werdum, the ground work. Cro Cop doesn't want to be on the ground he had no thought in his mind that GG would throw much of anything on the feet, Randy wasn't worried about being on the ground with him and it showed. Werdum will probably want to get it on the ground asap and out grapple GG. Now the 1'st round KO's, GG's strikes are hard no doubt, but he doesn't have the technique, or speed to make it land consistantly, and his boxing is not the best, so I don't see that happening esspecially considering Zentsov hits as hard if not harder then GG, and Aleks is much better technically. I do know why people think it will be such a wash, your looking at there fights against AA and Cro Cop and deciding from there, dig deeper.
warglory
12/16/07 2:45:34AM
I think Gonzaga's biggest enemy is his perseverance, and, dependent upon the former, his conditioning.

Gonzaga to me, is the new Tim Sylvia, just more talented. He uses his raw strength to overpower people on the ground and raw strength to hopefully keep opponents back pedaling in the stand up. The problem with Gonzaga, is when his gameplan goes to shit, so doesn't he. When Gonzaga rock rocked early on by Couture resulting in a broken nose, the morale was visibly sucked right out of him. He seemed to be the msot confident guy in the world walking into that fight, perhaps overconfident. I am hoping because he is young, that he learned from his fight with Couture, and will take his next fight in stride, evolving his in-cage tactics while the match progresses. Werdum is a smart fighter, but I think Gonzaga takes this if he can keep his head.
HUSKERLINK
12/19/07 3:29:10PM
I'm sorry, but if Werdum "goes Pancrease" He will not even phase Napao! Open hand strikes may have worked "back in the day"....but Gonzaga can take ANY shot that Werdum throws at him. The ONLY way Werdum can win is on the ground. I seriously doubt Werdum can control the ground game either. Gonzaga is WAY too big and strong!! I honestly think that the ONLY reason this fight is taking place....Is because the UFC has NOBODY for Napao to fight,RIGHT NOW. He needs to fight NOW, and this is a REDEMPTION match...just to shut-up the people who keep on saying that GG got defeated by Werdum! The fight was like 4 or 5 years ago. There is a REASON why Gonzaga is ranked in the TOP 5 Heavyweights in the world!!
cmill21
12/19/07 3:34:15PM

Posted by HUSKERLINK
There is a REASON why Gonzaga is ranked in the TOP 5 Heavyweights in the world!!



Can you tell me what that reason is? I bet I can guess . Werdum holds wins over Overeem, Zentsov, Aleks, and GG. GG has beat Cro Cop and marrero I guess. Also Werdum is taller(at 6'4 I doubt he can hit him with a HK) and will have much improved striking after spending time with Cro Cop and chute boxe.
HUSKERLINK
12/19/07 3:55:19PM
I can tell by your avatar that you probably arent a Gonzaga fan. But I will tell you this, If it werent for that Shattered nose by Randy's head on that slam......The fight is 100% different! After all.....Randy would have to fight 2-3 more rounds with a BROKEN ARM!! Just in case you did'nt hear, Randy HIMSELF stated that he was thrilled the fight was stopped when it was, because he was just starting to feel the effects of his broken forearm! 2 more kicks to that side would have retired Randy "the right way". Even he said it best..."He had NEVER been kicked and HIT so hard.....and he even was hit by Tim Sylvia!" Now don't get me wrong....I don't come to these forums to "start-crap". All I know, is that Team Link have signed and brought in Arona for this fight. Expect a FASTER, and STRONGER Napao than ever! He wants to prove to the UFC that he WILL be next to fight for the belt!!
cowcatcher
12/19/07 4:12:39PM
one RHK and your bandwagon certain does fill up doesnt it. werdum is as good on the ground as any HW including nog, so i dont see gonzagas strength being his saving grace on the ground, maybe you havent heard of royce gracie. GG looks like a solid young fighter, but im not 100% sold on him as the future of the HW division, although a few more wins could put him right up there. im seeing this as a close fight that werdum has to get to the ground to win, and GG has to win on the feet, simple enough, but we'll see how the pace of this fight goes and whether or not werdums elusiveness can frustrate GG. dont base your opinion of werdum on the AA fight, i agree he looked terrible then too, the guy is a very good fighter and has the skillset to beat GG again.
pv3Hpv3p
12/19/07 4:33:41PM

Posted by HUSKERLINK

I'm sorry, but if Werdum "goes Pancrease" He will not even phase Napao! Open hand strikes may have worked "back in the day"....but Gonzaga can take ANY shot that Werdum throws at him. The ONLY way Werdum can win is on the ground. I seriously doubt Werdum can control the ground game either. Gonzaga is WAY too big and strong!! I honestly think that the ONLY reason this fight is taking place....Is because the UFC has NOBODY for Napao to fight,RIGHT NOW. He needs to fight NOW, and this is a REDEMPTION match...just to shut-up the people who keep on saying that GG got defeated by Werdum! The fight was like 4 or 5 years ago. There is a REASON why Gonzaga is ranked in the TOP 5 Heavyweights in the world!!



Just to clarify... rewatch the Couture / Gonzaga fight... Gabriel breaks HIS own nose with his own KNEE because of RANDY'S thrilling takedown of a much bigger man... It's as plain as day... So that EXCUSE can go straight out the window...

Regarding the upcoming fight with Werdum, I am leaning toward GG winning... I'm just looking at their record in the past year... Fabricio didn't look good (or really like himself) in the AA fight, and GG put up a good fight against Randy and of course the underdog win against CC... I'm hoping that a new Werdum shows up, at least not the bitchslapping one that fought Arlovski... I'd like to see Werdum win this fight, but I don't know...

Richie, from how it reads, it seems that you're assuming that the same fighters that fought in jungle fight are having a rematch... Their groundgame is comparabel MMA-wise, after all this isn't Abu Dabi, and to say that Werdum has the striking advantage is just plain wrong...

I gotta go with Gonzaga because of the couple of posative things he has going for him... He's a bigger, stronger guy... He has more fights in the octagon... and has the better standup... With a decent enough groundgame to avoid submissions... GG by UD
tylerlee123
12/19/07 6:38:08PM
It seems to me that Werdum is the better fighter but due to his recent performances im going to have to give it to Gonzaga he is gonna be a force in this division
Riggeee
12/21/07 12:19:01PM
i just think werdum was nervous in that fight with AA i belive he is goin to come out comfortable at least and give GG trouble on the ground but GG will keep it standing for most of the fight and get the UD.....or KO
HUSKERLINK
12/25/07 2:09:36PM
Funny but....If Werdum was afraid of AA,..He better be TERRIFIED of Napao!! He is a TOTALLY different fighter than he was in the 1st fight,(on 2 weeks notice) I might add!! Werdum is a "slapper" just watch the AA fight. Gonzaga has MUCH more powerful hands...and feet!! He is taking this fight VERY personal!! TRUST ME!!
Purge
12/26/07 4:06:03AM
The Chute boxe camp can make some differences, so in terms of striking they might be close, but Gonzaga is definetely stronger

Gonzaga 2nd round TKO
fullerene
12/26/07 11:36:53AM
I agree with the threadstarter's logic and I would almost say Werdum is a lock except for his awful-looking striking. I'm afraid this one may play out like Einemo-Werdum or Koschek-Sanchez, Serra-Penn or Yoshida-Gardner-->the potentially great grappling match that turns into a mediocre boxing match. if that's the case, and unfortunately I think there's a good chance of it happening, I would heavily favor Gonzaga.
Kracker_Jap
12/28/07 1:05:19PM
Is there a website I can watch the fight?????

U-tube or some torrent??
Related Topics