Gonzaga VS. Carwin.....

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copcopps
3/3/09 10:36:11AM

Posted by State_Champ


Posted by copcopps

I think Carwin will win, not becuse he's a better fighter per say but a bigger more well-rounded fighter, plus he has 5XL gloves



Carwin is more well rounded that Gonzaga? I did not know this. However, if that's the case then I'll probably pick Gonzaga anyways because I think Gonzaga has more experience and has shown greater versatility.


When did Gonzaga had wrestling? I've only seen him have BJJ and kickboxing?
Boo_Radley21
3/3/09 11:11:51AM

Posted by copcopps


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by copcopps

I think Carwin will win, not becuse he's a better fighter per say but a bigger more well-rounded fighter, plus he has 5XL gloves



Carwin is more well rounded that Gonzaga? I did not know this. However, if that's the case then I'll probably pick Gonzaga anyways because I think Gonzaga has more experience and has shown greater versatility.



When did Gonzaga had wrestling? I've only seen him have BJJ and kickboxing?



I gotta say that Gonzaga is more well rounded from what I have seen as well. You've only seen him have BJJ and kickboxing but I've only seen Carwin have wrestling and punching power. His JJ hasn't been tested yet, and I think Gabe will be able to pull off the sub in this one.

And on another note...why do people make a big deal about the size of people's hands. I don't understand it. "Brock has 4XL gloves, Carwin has 5XL gloves..." I just don't get it.
State_Champ
3/3/09 2:44:43PM

Posted by copcopps


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by copcopps

I think Carwin will win, not becuse he's a better fighter per say but a bigger more well-rounded fighter, plus he has 5XL gloves



Carwin is more well rounded that Gonzaga? I did not know this. However, if that's the case then I'll probably pick Gonzaga anyways because I think Gonzaga has more experience and has shown greater versatility.


When did Gonzaga had wrestling? I've only seen him have BJJ and kickboxing?



ok.
I feel like Carwin has shown some punching power and wrestling while Gabe has shown kicks, punches and submissions as well the ability to fight even into the later rounds.

I actually think I am going to pick Carwin now but still say Gonzaga is more versatile
copcopps
3/3/09 6:07:38PM

Posted by State_Champ


Posted by copcopps


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by copcopps

I think Carwin will win, not becuse he's a better fighter per say but a bigger more well-rounded fighter, plus he has 5XL gloves



Carwin is more well rounded that Gonzaga? I did not know this. However, if that's the case then I'll probably pick Gonzaga anyways because I think Gonzaga has more experience and has shown greater versatility.


When did Gonzaga had wrestling? I've only seen him have BJJ and kickboxing?



ok.
I feel like Carwin has shown some punching power and wrestling while Gabe has shown kicks, punches and submissions as well the ability to fight even into the later rounds.

I actually think I am going to pick Carwin now but still say Gonzaga is more versatile


Fair enough on your points, I'm putting money on Gabe anyway
higdon10
3/3/09 6:38:48PM
I really want to see Carwin win this fight and continue to climb the HW ladder, but.... I see GG winning. People forget how disgusting his JJ is, I think we will all get a reminder of how good his ground game really is.
NatedawgThaM
3/3/09 6:52:01PM
I see this looking like Werdum vs Gonzaga too. Gonzaga outpoints em in the 1st but then gets alittle tired and Carwin has too much fight in him to quit and I think he lands a big one in the 2nd to put him in trouble and then finishes him violently after that.
Dragoslav
3/4/09 9:52:46AM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

But if you compare Carwin to the current UFC Champ.....

What you get is this...

Brock = 4XL gloves

Carwin = 5XL gloves

Brock = Division 1 national champ

Carwin = Division 2 national champ

Brocks record before the UFC 1-0 with one Finish

Carwins record before the UFC 8-0 with 8 Finishes all in the first round under the 3 minute mark, not to mention he found wins with KO's Subs and TKO's in those fights....

Brock is 6'2 and weighs about 270lbs

Carwin is 6'4 and weighs about 255lbs

Brock now has the Belt and Has beaten to legends in the sport, because of his size and wrestling Knowledge. people acclaim how could he could be or would be if he would have had a little whil longer to learn the ropes....

Well that could be IMO could be what we get out of Carwin !!

I want to take nothing away from Gonzaga, I am sure he has heart and talent and all the rest of the stuff stated in opinions above this post....

But we a have stated at one point in time how the Heavyweight class is lacking, and IMO this years will be the year that the new guys take this class to the next level...

And for that to happen Gonzaga really cannot win, WAR CARWIN



And after all that Brock Lesnar got submitted in his first UFC match by a guy who has worse BJJ than Gonzaga and is a less dangerous striker than Gonzaga. Also, there's a big difference between Lesnar's wrestling and Carwin's wrestling, moreso than just the fact that Div 1 vs Div 2 champs. Lesnar had an overall college record of 112-4 and went undefeated in his last two years in Division I. Carwin's credentials don't even come close.
State_Champ
3/4/09 10:07:24AM
why do people mention glove sizes when speaking about UFC fighters, is it an indication of how they will fight?
emfleek
3/4/09 10:18:58AM

Posted by State_Champ

why do people mention glove sizes when speaking about UFC fighters, is it an indication of how they will fight?



Not necessarily, but would you rather be hit in the face with a basketball or a medicine ball?
Kracker_Jap
3/4/09 10:40:46AM

Posted by Dragoslav


Posted by Kracker_Jap

But if you compare Carwin to the current UFC Champ.....

What you get is this...

Brock = 4XL gloves

Carwin = 5XL gloves

Brock = Division 1 national champ

Carwin = Division 2 national champ

Brocks record before the UFC 1-0 with one Finish

Carwins record before the UFC 8-0 with 8 Finishes all in the first round under the 3 minute mark, not to mention he found wins with KO's Subs and TKO's in those fights....

Brock is 6'2 and weighs about 270lbs

Carwin is 6'4 and weighs about 255lbs

Brock now has the Belt and Has beaten to legends in the sport, because of his size and wrestling Knowledge. people acclaim how could he could be or would be if he would have had a little whil longer to learn the ropes....

Well that could be IMO could be what we get out of Carwin !!

I want to take nothing away from Gonzaga, I am sure he has heart and talent and all the rest of the stuff stated in opinions above this post....

But we a have stated at one point in time how the Heavyweight class is lacking, and IMO this years will be the year that the new guys take this class to the next level...

And for that to happen Gonzaga really cannot win, WAR CARWIN



And after all that Brock Lesnar got submitted in his first UFC match by a guy who has worse BJJ than Gonzaga and is a less dangerous striker than Gonzaga. Also, there's a big difference between Lesnar's wrestling and Carwin's wrestling, moreso than just the fact that Div 1 vs Div 2 champs. Lesnar had an overall college record of 112-4 and went undefeated in his last two years in Division I. Carwin's credentials don't even come close.



Great point.....

But you could have missed mine....

Clearly you have to recognize the fact that Brock does have a Belt and he did destroy Heath and Randy, which he pretty much did with his size and athleticism... People around the world have remarked on how more dangerous he will become with each fight. Win or lose he learns more with each training camp.....


Now we have Carwin with a very similar Size and athletic advantage over his oponents... Only difference is that he has been brought through the ranks and actually has a record to stand on.. (10-0 1st round finishes under the 3 minute mark)


cowcatcher
3/4/09 11:01:52AM
lesnar has the better wrestling pedigree, but the difference between a division 1 and div 2 wrestler isnt always that big. a lot of div 2 guys are better than the d1 guys, but they either are head cases(wrestlers almost always have a screw loose), have bad grades, or wrestled for little high schools and didnt get as much attention from the bigger programs. a lot of the kids growing up in rural areas are unbelievable wrestlers but dont get noticed until they place at state their senior years and by then its too late to get that big 10 or big 12 scholarship, and their families cant afford to send them there to try to make the team as a non scholarship wrestler. wrestling is not the same as football or basketball when talking about the difference between d1 and d2.
Dragoslav
3/4/09 3:26:11PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap




Great point.....

But you could have missed mine....

Clearly you have to recognize the fact that Brock does have a Belt and he did destroy Heath and Randy, which he pretty much did with his size and athleticism... People around the world have remarked on how more dangerous he will become with each fight. Win or lose he learns more with each training camp.....


Now we have Carwin with a very similar Size and athletic advantage over his oponents... Only difference is that he has been brought through the ranks and actually has a record to stand on.. (10-0 1st round finishes under the 3 minute mark)





I didn't miss it. I thought it had been addressed earlier. Carwin has a lot of impressive victories...... over cans. And let's be completely real about Heath Herring. Heath Herring is a good fighter. He's had wars with some of the best. He ALMOST beat Nog...... almost. That said he has neither the BJJ nor the striking ability of Gonzaga. Carwin might have some submission, but not against any world class BJJ practitioners. Gonzaga is a Mundials champion. That's world class. It's almost as prestigious as an ADCC champion. Gonzaga also stood in the ring with the man was arguably the most feared striker in the sport at the time and won, by striking. In fact, with all Gonzaga's BJJ credentials I believe he only has one win in the UFC via submission.... against Carmello Marerro. Let's not compare apples and oranges here. Carwin's best chance to win involves catching Gonzaga with a big right hand, and Gonzaga is a smart enough fighter to be watching out for it.

If anyone is the future of Heavyweight, it's Gonzaga. A big, talented, well-rounded fighter who's just as dangerous on the ground as he is on the feet.
jiujitsufreak74
3/4/09 4:05:51PM
just want to comment on something: Mir's MMA JJ > GG's MMA JJ
mkiv9secsupra
3/4/09 4:23:27PM

Posted by Boo_Radley21
And on another note...why do people make a big deal about the size of people's hands. I don't understand it. "Brock has 4XL gloves, Carwin has 5XL gloves..." I just don't get it.



well essentially Force = Mass x Velocity

If Carwin and Lesnar landed a straight right and their arms were travelling at the same velocity, Carwin would actually have hit 25% harder.

Its not really an indication of anything other than potentially how hard someone can hit.
emfleek
3/4/09 4:31:09PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by Boo_Radley21
And on another note...why do people make a big deal about the size of people's hands. I don't understand it. "Brock has 4XL gloves, Carwin has 5XL gloves..." I just don't get it.



well essentially Force = Mass x Velocity

If Carwin and Lesnar landed a straight right and their arms were travelling at the same velocity, Carwin would actually have hit 25% harder.

Its not really an indication of anything other than potentially how hard someone can hit.



Exactly...


Posted by emfleek


Posted by State_Champ

why do people mention glove sizes when speaking about UFC fighters, is it an indication of how they will fight?



Not necessarily, but would you rather be hit in the face with a basketball or a medicine ball?

Pookie
3/4/09 4:41:37PM
The amount of surface area also spreads the force of the impact among a larger area, therefore doing less damage than the same force applied over a smaller area.
Kracker_Jap
3/4/09 6:32:35PM

Posted by Dragoslav


Posted by Kracker_Jap




Great point.....

But you could have missed mine....

Clearly you have to recognize the fact that Brock does have a Belt and he did destroy Heath and Randy, which he pretty much did with his size and athleticism... People around the world have remarked on how more dangerous he will become with each fight. Win or lose he learns more with each training camp.....


Now we have Carwin with a very similar Size and athletic advantage over his oponents... Only difference is that he has been brought through the ranks and actually has a record to stand on.. (10-0 1st round finishes under the 3 minute mark)





I didn't miss it. I thought it had been addressed earlier. Carwin has a lot of impressive victories...... over cans. And let's be completely real about Heath Herring. Heath Herring is a good fighter. He's had wars with some of the best. He ALMOST beat Nog...... almost. That said he has neither the BJJ nor the striking ability of Gonzaga. Carwin might have some submission, but not against any world class BJJ practitioners. Gonzaga is a Mundials champion. That's world class. It's almost as prestigious as an ADCC champion. Gonzaga also stood in the ring with the man was arguably the most feared striker in the sport at the time and won, by striking. In fact, with all Gonzaga's BJJ credentials I believe he only has one win in the UFC via submission.... against Carmello Marerro. Let's not compare apples and oranges here. Carwin's best chance to win involves catching Gonzaga with a big right hand, and Gonzaga is a smart enough fighter to be watching out for it.

If anyone is the future of Heavyweight, it's Gonzaga. A big, talented, well-rounded fighter who's just as dangerous on the ground as he is on the feet.



In three post you have earned my respect...

I do not agree with you...

But at least when challenged you back up your statements with thought....

I guess we will have to watch the fight and see....
jiujitsufreak74
3/4/09 7:30:12PM
Force = mass x acceleration actually
dannyfrank
3/4/09 8:09:28PM
you know, the reason that im at this site right now is so that i DONT have to think about physics. i cant get away from it!!!
mkiv9secsupra
3/4/09 8:21:08PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74 i believe

Force = mass x times acceleration actually



assuming there is acceleration... if the object has no acceleration you have to base it off velocity. its just a much easier formula.
F=D(MV)/DT but assuming you know the object is at a steady speed D/DT has no relevance

i may bee to intoxicated but i believe that is true
dannyfrank
3/4/09 8:24:08PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by jiujitsufreak74 i believe

Force = mass x times acceleration actually



assuming there is acceleration... if the object has no acceleration you have to base it off velocity. its just a much easier formula.
F=D/DT(MV) but assuming you know the object is at a steady speed D/DT has no relevance

i may bee to intoxicated but i believe that is true



no, if acceleration is zero, then it is at a constant velocity, which means no force is acting on the object. plus, if you multiply anything by zero, then you get zero
jiujitsufreak74
3/4/09 8:37:30PM
i was just being a jerk lol.

but...if you want to get down to it, i'm in AP physics and aced the state physics exam so:

dannyfrank is right
0 acceleration = constant velocity
0 acceleration = 0 force


the faster your hand is accelerating the more force you exert.
the heavier your hand the more more force you exert

F=ma
a=v/t
v= dx/dt
a=dv/dt

so it is more about the change in speed and not about the actual speed that impacts the force

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back to the topic though, Gonzaga has a questionable heart, no way to get this to the ground and is facing off against Jackson's camp. Carwin just has to win the battle on the feet and make sure he dot's his i's and crosses his t's on the ground. Gonzaga's guard isn't as impressive as people think though, at least not in MMA. there is a difference in pure BJJ and MMA JJ and in MMA JJ Gonzaga is lacking a bit. i still think he can sub Carwin but i doubt it will be from guard. if he was going to sub him it would be from a dominant position, which is hard to get against a guy like Carwin who will dictate whether or not this will be on the ground.
mkiv9secsupra
3/4/09 8:47:06PM

Posted by dannyfrank


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by jiujitsufreak74 i believe

Force = mass x times acceleration actually



assuming there is acceleration... if the object has no acceleration you have to base it off velocity. its just a much easier formula.
F=D/DT(MV) but assuming you know the object is at a steady speed D/DT has no relevance

i may bee to intoxicated but i believe that is true



no, if acceleration is zero, then it is at a constant velocity, which means no force is acting on the object. plus, if you multiply anything by zero, then you get zero


newtons second law also says that 0 acceleration on an object in motion(or rest) means that it will not slow down or speed up. when i mean D/DT is not relevant it means treat that part of the formula as the fraction 1/1 and it means nothing. That is why i say force is essentially mass × velocity
jiujitsufreak74
3/4/09 8:53:00PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by dannyfrank


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by jiujitsufreak74 i believe

Force = mass x times acceleration actually



assuming there is acceleration... if the object has no acceleration you have to base it off velocity. its just a much easier formula.
F=D/DT(MV) but assuming you know the object is at a steady speed D/DT has no relevance

i may bee to intoxicated but i believe that is true



no, if acceleration is zero, then it is at a constant velocity, which means no force is acting on the object. plus, if you multiply anything by zero, then you get zero


newtons second law also says that 0 acceleration on an object in motion(or rest) means that it will not slow down or speed up. when i mean D/DT is not relevant it means treat that part of the formula as the fraction 1/1 and it means nothing. That is why i say force is essentially mass × velocity


0 acceleration is constant velocity that brings about 0 force. acceleration is the change in velocity, if there is no change in velocity then there is no force. the actual magnitude of the velocity has 0 impact on the force, it is just the magnitude of the change of velocity.

however, there is momentum. p=mv. there is momentum but no force with constant velocity.
dannyfrank
3/4/09 9:09:35PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by jiujitsufreak74
dannyfrank is right
0 acceleration = constant velocity
0 acceleration = 0 force


the faster your hand is accelerating the more force you exert
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------.



Bingo! we have an idiot on the site!




his name is Mkiv9secsupra!!

ha i just looked it up in my old physics books from a few years ago! thank god that wasnt on my asvab

props for jjfreak and danny for pointing out the reatard lol



believe me dude, when it comes to the topic of physics, im pretty retarded too sometimes
slapshot
3/5/09 3:52:23AM
I think you guys should forget about submissions, you cant sub someone you cant take down and control. I dont see Carwin being stupid enough to take Gonzaga to the ground either so lets just assume this will be a stand up fight.

I like Gonzaga if this turns into a kick boxing match, we all know he has great kicks and fair hands. I think this fight is really his to loose and it will all depend on his strategy.

If this turns into a slug fest and/or Gonzaga gases out like he did against randy for instance, Carwin will have the power to cave in his face. Carwin needs Gonzaga to come forward and be willing to bang or he's going to have a hard time landing the power shots that win him fights.

I think this is a very difficult fight to make a pick with any confidence, in the end you have to go with who you think will implement there game plan effectively and for that reason alone I took Gonzaga, his experience should be a factor in dictating how this fight plays out but with that said Carwin only needs Gonzaga to make one mistake and the fight could be over.

P.S.
With a kick or a punch, where the mass is constant the acceleration is the determining factor in force production. Force=Mass x Acceleration. In striking acceleration is generally thought of as hand speed and dose play a role in the force of a punch.
slapshot
3/5/09 4:38:31AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

i was just being a jerk lol.

but...if you want to get down to it, i'm in AP physics and aced the state physics exam so:

dannyfrank is right
0 acceleration = constant velocity
constant velocity = constant force


the more force you exert the faster your hand is accelerating.
the heavier(mass) your hand the more momentum, power you exert on impact.

F=ma
a=v/t
v= dx/dt
a=dv/dt

so it is more about the change in speed and not about the actual speed that impacts the force


Fixed, you might want to go hit the books I bit harder.
jawbreaker517
3/5/09 1:12:36PM
Gonzaga is probably the more well-rounded fighter, but let's hope he doesn't get caught with a clean punch from Carwin, cause that may be lights out for Gonzaga.
jiujitsufreak74
3/5/09 2:18:41PM

Posted by slapshot


Posted by jiujitsufreak74

i was just being a jerk lol.

but...if you want to get down to it, i'm in AP physics and aced the state physics exam so:

dannyfrank is right
0 acceleration = constant velocity
constant velocity = constant force


the more force you exert the faster your hand is accelerating.
the heavier(mass) your hand the more momentum, power you exert on impact.

F=ma
a=v/t
v= dx/dt
a=dv/dt

so it is more about the change in speed and not about the actual speed that impacts the force


Fixed, you might want to go hit the books I bit harder.



actually i was not wrong. you corrected nothing and just added momentum which i touched on in a different post. P=mv. increasing the mass increases both the force and momentum. i wasn't arguing either side, i was justy pointing out physics equations. nice try though
monk111
3/6/09 2:14:25AM
WOW YOU GUYS TOOK THIS TO A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL.. I JUST WANTED SOME INPUT ON THE FIGHT NOT A PHYSICS LESSON.. but thanx just the same you guys are highly entertaining...
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