Getting The KO - More Than Just Pure Power

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JohnnyNapalm
9/26/08 1:09:07PM
So I and a few others believe that Bisping is going to play rock'em sock'em with Leben's noggin and get a KO and what do I keep hearing in return? - Bisping doesn't have the power, how's he going to do that?

IF every KO in the history of KOdom was a result of pure power then there would be a lot fewer KO's. Some guys can get the KO with one shot, like Chuck Liddell or Robbie Lawler. Other fighters, most other fighters, get it done through an accumulation of damage after several strikes or several strikes over several rounds. Plus as the opponent begins to tire naturally his ability to absorb punishment diminishes, and his will to go on withers away. A great example of this was Tyson/Douglas - Tyson has a granite chin but because of many factors it took one too many punches and eventually cracked.

Another possibility is getting tagged at the right time in the right place. Serra/St.Pierre is a good example of what can happen when one guy cracks another and hits the jackpot. Was Serra's punch really powerful or perfectly timed? Anyone who has seen Serra fight in the past would believe it had more to do with timing than pure power. How many times is that going to happen? Not often. But it happens often enough that predicted fight results can get turned on their head.

So yeah, Bisping can KO Leben and it doesn't have to come as a direct result of power. The way I see it Leben is a slow moving pinata and Bisping is a Forrest-like cardio freak with fast hands and footwork who can bang on that pinata all night. We'll see.


Some other KO's that nobody (or very few) seen coming:

Evans/Liddell
Randleman/Crocop
Gonzaga/Crocop
Sakuraba/Schembri

Others?


Jackelope
9/26/08 1:20:35PM
Only thing is that your examples were one punch stunning KO's which involved a perfect setup and came totally unexpected under one punch KO power.

If and when Bisping does KO Leben I believe it would be an accumulation of strikes like you mentioned.

If anybody were to argue that someone can't be knocked out then they'd be dead wrong. Anyone can be KO'd. I don't think Bisping will flat out comatose KO Leben, though.
jocka
9/26/08 1:59:43PM
You are correct, KO does not come from power only it can for some fighters like Liddel per exemple but most of the time it comes from a perfectly placed shot . Remember when Liddel got dropped by Rampage, there was not a lot of power behind that punch but it was perfectly placed, the timing was just right plus liddel did not see it comming.

I think the most common factor of KO's is the fact that the other fighter does not see it comming this is why a cross/left hook works so well, your hands are up to protect your face from the cross then pow you get hit with the left hook.

Also like you mentionned you can get KO'ed from accumulation but i think thats it normally more of a tko than anything else

Power - Timing - Right spot and blind spots

Everybody can get KO thats for sure,

ps. i believe that LEben has a way better chin that crocop and liddell too
Jackelope
9/26/08 2:14:22PM

Posted by jocka

You are correct, KO does not come from power only it can for some fighters like Liddel per exemple but most of the time it comes from a perfectly placed shot . Remember when Liddel got dropped by Rampage, there was not a lot of power behind that punch but it was perfectly placed, the timing was just right plus liddel did not see it comming.

I think the most common factor of KO's is the fact that the other fighter does not see it comming this is why a cross/left hook works so well, your hands are up to protect your face from the cross then pow you get hit with the left hook.

Also like you mentionned you can get KO'ed from accumulation but i think thats it normally more of a tko than anything else

Power - Timing - Right spot and blind spots

Everybody can get KO thats for sure,

ps. i believe that LEben has a way better chin that crocop and liddell too



Well if you look at it from a purely scientific standpoint things that come from the side stand a better chance of knocking you out because your neck will twist to the point that your body puts itself naturally into a concussive state for protection purposes. Basically your body goes limp so that you do not resist the torque and break your neck.
jocka
9/26/08 2:18:55PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by jocka

You are correct, KO does not come from power only it can for some fighters like Liddel per exemple but most of the time it comes from a perfectly placed shot . Remember when Liddel got dropped by Rampage, there was not a lot of power behind that punch but it was perfectly placed, the timing was just right plus liddel did not see it comming.

I think the most common factor of KO's is the fact that the other fighter does not see it comming this is why a cross/left hook works so well, your hands are up to protect your face from the cross then pow you get hit with the left hook.

Also like you mentionned you can get KO'ed from accumulation but i think thats it normally more of a tko than anything else

Power - Timing - Right spot and blind spots

Everybody can get KO thats for sure,

ps. i believe that LEben has a way better chin that crocop and liddell too



Well if you look at it from a purely scientific standpoint things that come from the side stand a better chance of knocking you out because your neck will twist to the point that your body puts itself naturally into a concussive state for protection purposes. Basically your body goes limp so that you do not resist the torque and break your neck.



lol your are also right lol am just talking from experience, its one of my favorite combination
cmb19932
9/26/08 2:47:46PM
true but it takes time to add up punishment and crack that granite chin leben has the abilty to crack it in one punch so while bispings chipping away lebens throwing wildly and im betting he connects at least once and thats all he needs
JohnnyNapalm
9/26/08 3:42:50PM

Posted by jocka

You are correct, KO does not come from power only it can for some fighters like Liddel per exemple but most of the time it comes from a perfectly placed shot . Remember when Liddel got dropped by Rampage, there was not a lot of power behind that punch but it was perfectly placed, the timing was just right plus liddel did not see it comming.

I think the most common factor of KO's is the fact that the other fighter does not see it comming this is why a cross/left hook works so well, your hands are up to protect your face from the cross then pow you get hit with the left hook.

Also like you mentionned you can get KO'ed from accumulation but i think thats it normally more of a tko than anything else

Power - Timing - Right spot and blind spots

Everybody can get KO thats for sure,

ps. i believe that LEben has a way better chin that crocop and liddell too



Yes, the unseen punch is deadly.
JohnnyNapalm
9/26/08 3:54:48PM

Posted by cmb19932

true but it takes time to add up punishment and crack that granite chin leben has the abilty to crack it in one punch so while bispings chipping away lebens throwing wildly and im betting he connects at least once and thats all he needs



Another factor for KO power - conditioning. A fighter weakens, his power weakens. Leben will be dangerous early but will he be as dangerous should the fight go more than 2 rounds? We'll see.
Aaronno9
9/26/08 4:01:03PM
Another factor is that alot of people seem to think whatever leben touches gets knocked out. Seriously, if he had the kind of power people make out he has sometimes hed only have one loss to anderson and a shit lot of 1st round k.os. Just becouse he hits hard DOES NOT mean hes going to floor bisping with one shot.
Ben_Hutch
9/26/08 4:14:01PM
I completely agree with your post but i believe Rashad's KO over Liddell had a lot to do with power (aswell as timing and hitting the chin), I mean, Rashad hit Liddell f*cking hard!
cmb19932
9/26/08 5:31:39PM

Another factor for KO power - conditioning. A fighter weakens, his power weakens. Leben will be dangerous early but will he be as dangerous should the fight go more than 2 rounds? We'll see.



he wont be as dangerouse if bisping manuvers but like i said one shot all he needs and personaly i belive leben in the third has more power than bisping in the first


and ill take any bet any one wants i got leben
casey64
9/26/08 5:44:07PM
The Evans and the liddel ko was probly the most unseen ko.IMO
keith-hackney1
9/26/08 5:59:35PM
I don't believe power comes into it when talking ko's. If the sweet spot or a nerve is hit in the right place, regardless of wether or not that punch carries power, the ko is evident !! Don fry once said, the ko punch is the 6 inch punch, so many times in MMA the 6 inch punch seems to be the best format. I do however, believe that if a powerful punch also hits the right spot, the ko would be again evident, but maybe do abit more damage in the sense of bruising, longer recovery time etc ...
Pookie
9/26/08 7:34:24PM
Agreed that anyone can be knocked out, but i just dont see Bisping finishing Leben personally.
chickmagnet
9/26/08 7:46:55PM
You were bringing up all these guys who werent expected to win by KO, well i see Leben upsetting the UK with a flash KO, kind of like he did to Rivera. I wouldnt be surprised to see another one of Bispings great performances(McCarthy, Day) but i have a pretty good feeling Leben is going to connect hard with that left hand. Also Leben is the first one punch fighter he has faced not including Rashad evans.
VictimSix
9/27/08 2:39:57PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

I don't believe power comes into it when talking ko's. If the sweet spot or a nerve is hit in the right place, regardless of wether or not that punch carries power, the ko is evident !! Don fry once said, the ko punch is the 6 inch punch, so many times in MMA the 6 inch punch seems to be the best format. I do however, believe that if a powerful punch also hits the right spot, the ko would be again evident, but maybe do abit more damage in the sense of bruising, longer recovery time etc ...



Power from my exp comes into play more when you have someone infront of you that has very good defense. Feather fisted guys have a hard time breaking down a really good defense because if they hit any part of your glove you can shrug them off, not the same case with a power puncher. Same goes for the body.

Also with 4 oz gloves on you don't need to hit very hard to cause damage.
sleevey
9/27/08 3:04:32PM
I am curious to know how many guys who posted here actually train. Not to sound like a dick, but ask any boxing trainer or muay thai trainer. Power comes from leverage and technique close to 95% of the time. There is something called kinetic poweer and your punching power is transfered from your feet through your legs most of it from the glute's also your knucles play a small part as well as keeping your wrist strait.

There aree some guys how have that one punch KO power not so much as through technique or leverage Lidell comes to mind He KO's guys off his back foot which is extremely hard to do. In which he is the case like Roberto Duran where he has hands made out of bricks.This is a very small rule and mostly against the norm. Then you have guys that no matter what theye due they just don't have the ability to KO someone in a single shot Matt Hughes fell victim to that ask him he will tell you how he wants that one punch KO so badly.


Like I said 90% of the time a true one punch KO comes from levrage and technique a perfect example is Evans over Lidell. That was a perfect punch from his feet the angle in which he threw the punch and the way he used his whole lower body and did not push the punch to the snap his shoulder had when it was at the point of impact. When someone lands a punch like that I dont care how big or good your chin is you are going to sleep. That is what makes A.Silva so dangerous His punches are so perfect along with the angles he throws them from. His footwork is far and away the best out there right now watch his fights and look at his feet and nothing else watch how he plants the lead foot on the inside of opponents. which gives him a much bigger target to hit.


So you take a proper thrown punch and at the risk of sound like Rogan and put it on the button or even close then it's lights out and you wake up asking what hit me. When I boxed years ago My coach always said it's the punches you don't see that put you to sleep. Experiance tells me when I got caught I never seen them coming and did not know what hit me.


I think I have given some good examples of the K.O. I also agree the 4 oz. glove is huge w/ some of the KO's we see. Again Cuck KO'ing people off his back foot leaning back which he has done multiple times are Knucles and hands that are like bricks and the combo of 4 oz. gloves.

Hope ethis helps BTW I like Bisping can Leban catch him absolutely I just dont think Bisping will stand in the pocket and trade w/ Leban if he does he is in for a rude leeft hand. I am sure he will keep it at distance use low kicks, then faint to tie Leban up do some clinching dirty box a lil bit and take him down and G-N-P him. I have Bisping UD, I am even leaning towards an arm triangle or some type of choke in the 3rd.






Jackelope
9/27/08 4:09:00PM
^^^ While certainly all of that is true there are always exceptions to the rule. Randleman isn't the type of guy to KO people left and right with clean technique, but in the right situation with the right set up he was able to score what was in my opinion one of the most brutal knockouts of all time in MMA over Cro Cop. Not to mention that Quinton Jackson is on record for saying that Randleman is the hardest hitter he's ever faced.

Anyway, though.. it's along the lines of what I've always talked about in regards to Brock Lesnar. The guy may hit like a freight train based on muscles alone, but he's not going to be ko'ing people left and right because his punches have no snap to them and he's pushing almost every single one of them. So, while he'll send Heath Herring rolling backwards he won't score the KO because he pushes Herring's entire body mass instead of snapping his head back with clean technique.

The main thing here is to get the point across that anybody can be KO'd in the right situation. Just because someone has huge muscles doesn't mean they'll knock someone out, though. It's more important to come from the right angle at the right time and with the right technique. In the case of Leben vs. Bisping- I am going to guess Bisping scores a UD win over Leben unless he makes the mistake of planting his feet and trying to out brawl Leben. In that case Leben has the infamous retard strength, heavy hands and granite chin to increase his chances of coming out on top.

jocka
9/27/08 8:24:28PM

Posted by sleevey

I am curious to know how many guys who posted here actually train. Not to sound like a dick, but ask any boxing trainer or muay thai trainer. Power comes from leverage and technique close to 95% of the time. There is something called kinetic poweer and your punching power is transfered from your feet through your legs most of it from the glute's also your knucles play a small part as well as keeping your wrist strait.



to answer your first question i do train in muay thai / no gi jj and wreslting. I don't agree that the power comes from the feet but it comes from the hips.
sleevey
9/27/08 10:02:14PM

Posted by jocka


Posted by sleevey

Power comes from leverage and technique close to 95% of the time. There is something called kinetic power and your punching power is transfered from your feet through your legs most of it from the glute's also your knucles play a small part as well as keeping your wrist strait.



to answer your first question i do train in muay thai / no gi jj and wreslting. I don't agree that the power comes from the feet but it comes from the hips.




Ok reread where I ralked about kinetic energy you helped me to made my point exactly power starts at your feet and transfers all the way up through your glute's and hips your ass is where most of the kinetic energy transfer from. So as I said the same thing please read something all the way through first cause all you did was agree with me. Sorry if I sound like an a**hole but please read something first before you quote me.

One of the very first things any trainer or coach I had worked with me and there students was foot work and how to plant your feet. Get them on the inside bring the punch up from the floor through my but and hips and snap my punch.

If you don't agree power comes from your feet your are sadly mistaken and may want to seek some additional training maybe with a boxing coach not only does it start there foot work is a basic fundamentals to throwing power punches and combo's. That's even Leban says Bisping excels at. Again watch the great strikers in mma with a few exceptions to the rule there foot placement is almost always on the inside of the oppents lead foot hence better angle's and to repeat myself a much bigger target to hit.

Also Jackelope hit the nail on the head IMO although it is against the norm Randelman is anther rare execption to the rule great post Jackelope as most of the time your on point with your thread. I could not agree more about the way Brock seems to through a punch
jocka
9/27/08 10:31:49PM

Posted by sleevey


Posted by jocka


Posted by sleevey

Power comes from leverage and technique close to 95% of the time. There is something called kinetic power and your punching power is transfered from your feet through your legs most of it from the glute's also your knucles play a small part as well as keeping your wrist strait.



to answer your first question i do train in muay thai / no gi jj and wreslting. I don't agree that the power comes from the feet but it comes from the hips.




Ok reread where I ralked about kinetic energy you helped me to made my point exactly power starts at your feet and transfers all the way up through your glute's and hips your ass is where most of the kinetic energy transfer from. So as I said the same thing please read something all the way through first cause all you did was agree with me. Sorry if I sound like an a**hole but please read something first before you quote me.

One of the very first things any trainer or coach I had worked with me and there students was foot work and how to plant your feet. Get them on the inside bring the punch up from the floor through my but and hips and snap my punch.

If you don't agree power comes from your feet your are sadly mistaken and may want to seek some additional training maybe with a boxing coach not only does it start there foot work is a basic fundamentals to throwing power punches and combo's. That's even Leban says Bisping excels at. Again watch the great strikers in mma with a few exceptions to the rule there foot placement is almost always on the inside of the oppents lead foot hence better angle's and to repeat myself a much bigger target to hit.

Also Jackelope hit the nail on the head IMO although it is against the norm Randelman is anther rare execption to the rule great post Jackelope as most of the time your on point with your thread. I could not agree more about the way Brock seems to through a punch



wow you are a sensitive person i wasn't trying to hurt your feeling, the only thing i added is that the power came from your hips not your feet and from your original post you did not mention hips so i though i would.
sleevey
9/27/08 10:39:20PM
It's not that man it's like you said just to try and debate with me or the orig. post did say that unfortunatly you did not read it. Again sprry if I came across like a dick definetly was not my intent. Thank you for pointing that out about the hips but in my defense you were the one who said you did not agree I was letting you know as gentlemanly as I could that with what you said you did agree thats all.
cmb19932
9/28/08 12:32:54PM
QUOTE]I am curious to know how many guys who posted here actually train. Not to sound like a dick, but ask any boxing trainer or muay thai trainer. Power comes from leverage and technique close to 95% of the time. There is something called kinetic poweer and your punching power is transfered from your feet through your legs most of it from the glute's also your knucles play a small part as well as keeping your wrist strait.


i do train and i understand the way knietic linking works but at the same tim there is such thing as a good hard punch you dont need all the skill in the world to punch



tank abbot he loses alot but no one can deny he can punch
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