Posted by jomatty
how tim sylvia ranks frank mir's bjj above werdums is beyond me though, and pe de panos is better than mirs too. actually both of those guys bjj in a bjj context is better than nogs but nobody utilyzes bjj in mma like big nog.
i responded in the HW JJ thread but here is what i believe with werdum and mir in terms of MMA usage in MMA. sylvia was referring to their JJ utilization in MMA not in general. well here are some points that apply for your response:
while the answer to the question is obviously nog, it is the number two spot where i hit a rough patch. i would have to say it is a tie between mir and werdum. now the reason i have to go with mir here is because i am assuming he is back to the shape he was in before the accident where he was just schooling the UFC HWs on the lessons of JJ. he was constantly moving and was very mythotical in his guard throwing up submissions that caught his opponents off-guard (pun intended btw
). in his fight with lesnar i saw signs of his old self. he was keeping an active guard against a wrecking machine in lesnar and threw up two solid armbar attempts and eventually clinched the kneebar to win it. if he is back to his old self he is a fighter to look out for. werdum has always been a great JJ fighter in MMA who utilizes the triangle very well. he was able to choke out aleks which speaks to his skill and made GG scared of his guard. the fight against RZ where he got an armbar and a triangle at the same time was beautiful and werdum has shown such beauy in most of his fights. unfortunately he has not been able to grace the UFC with his submissions skills but the HWs should be wary of his JJ.
3) Werdum is by far the most accomplished HW in terms of JJ outside of MMA. he holds such titles as the blue belt division Jiu Jitsu World Championship , Jiu Jitsu European Championship, Jiu Jitsu Pan-American Championship x3, black belt division Jiu Jitsu World Championship x 2 , and the 2007 ADCC World Championship
which speaks to his current dominance in the art.
5) Pe de Pano should not even be in this discussion in terms of MMA utilization because he only has one victory due to submission. his credentials outside are very impressive although his acclaimed tournament wins are very debatable outside of his Abu Dhabi 2000 win because i don't remember him winning what he vaguely described as "world champion of Jiu-Jitsu" 6 times.
my JJ in MMA rankings:
2) Mir (mir and werdum are tied imo but i would give the slightest edge to werdum)