Frankie Edgar is too small.

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Frankie Edgar is too small.
Stickan
11/19/07 9:09:27AM
Frankie Edgar looked good against Fisher but ever since his fight with Bocek I've thought he should move down in weight. I understand why he doesn't since UFC doesn't have a 145 division and fighting in the UFC is all that but for his continuing success he should.
Both Bocek and Fisher dwarfed Edgar and even though he won against both, Bocek dropped him with his 180lbs power and Fisher stuffed a few takedowns despite his horrible wrestling. Even though he also beat a great wrestler in Griffin and might make a run in the 155 division, he's not utilizing his talent to the max by staying at that weight. He would probably do even better at 145. Griffin is also a natural 145er.
Frankie is 5'6. Sherk is 5'6 and compare bodystructures. I understand that this isn't a bodybuilding contest but it's great to have a size and strength advantage and he wrestled at 141 so you know the cut won't be new to him.

I'm not usually the one to claim fighters should drop weight and perhaps this subject should rather be "UFC should get a 145 division!" or "The UFC forces talented small fighters to fight above their weight class" but I just wanted to get your opinions on this.
CornishMMA
11/19/07 9:32:15AM
He would have a much better chance at FW but i dont think he has too really, guys like Bisping HAVE TO drop to have any success but Edgar will do fine at 155 for now i think, obviously he would be much better at 145 and yes i do think the UFC should bring the division in, why should the WEC get those great fights? especially as the 155 div is so popular in the UFC now the 145 would be just as popular

So i say no, Frankie should just hit the weights and bulk up imho, granted he wouldnt beat Sherk or even Stevenson but he would handle most of the division right now
fullerene
11/19/07 9:48:00AM
I think he did wrestle in the 130s, but I had thought that Tyson Griffin was one of the strongest guys in the division and Edgar looked stronger than him. Until he gets stuck on his back and loses I think he should fight in the more competitive, high profile division. There are a lot of superstars coming to 155 and he's getting close to a fight with some of them.

I kind of see this like claims that Serra or Fedor should go down a weight class--that's only an argument when you're not successful where you are. And some guys (Couture and maybe Henderson are examples) do better when they don't have to worry about the weight cuts even if it puts them into higher weight classes.
hippysmacker
11/19/07 9:57:05AM
I said the same thing to my buds watching the fight the other night. While I never thought of him as huge at 155 , I have been telling people for a while that Fisher is too small to ever wrest the belt from Sherk. When the tale of the tape popped up I was intrigued. When they had the face off I realized for the first time how small Edgar really was in comparison to Spencer, who I already thought of as undersized. So I agree with both of you, but would like to add a likely 3rd option to dropping to to 145, or bulking up at 155 . I think he is too small, but he should see how far he could go at this weight before moving down. Despite Griffin fighting at 145 in the past he is still about 170 in the ring IMO, so he can cut but isn't small. Sherk is reportedly 175 in the ring and is very strong at that weight. Edgar is obviously very well rounded , talented , and has the right mentality to be a champion. Even better he could bulk up a bit , obviously a lot of guys at 155 show that a lot more weight can be carried, and if he fails his quest for the belt cut the weight. There is actually a 4th option, and although I think it less likely he has been extremely impressive so far against good competition in the UFC . 4th option- he's like Hendo. Feels he fights his best without cutting, and his functional grappling strength far out weights his physique. No matter which option he chooses. I truly feel he will be a champion in the next 2 years tops.
gspgnp
11/19/07 10:06:42AM
Although I agree that he would fair better in the 145 weight class, I give props to the man for givin' er at 155. I have never been a huge fan of fighters that cut extraordinary amounts of weight and I always like to see someone step up and try to beat guys with their skill and not just their size. I know GSP cuts a lot of weight so you don't have to tell me that. But the fact is he's got the skill to back it up. It doesn't take away from the fact that you should respect guys that go in on skill alone and not just size. I hope Edgar sticks it out at 155. There are a lot of good matchups for him there and even though he may not win a title, he has definitely earned my respect.
AchillesHeel
11/19/07 10:24:22AM

Posted by Stickan

[...]perhaps this subject should rather be "UFC should get a 145 division!"


I think it should. Otherwise, you're talkin' crazy. The guy is 8-0, 3-0 in the UFC, 2 of those wins against Top-10 fighters. Not only does Edgar not need to drop to Featherweight, he deserves a title shot.


btw, I don't recall Fisher stuffing a few takedown attempts; I remember him stopping one, and getting taken down 6 or 8 times... "The Karate Kid" looked like he'd never met a wrestler before.
State_Champ
11/19/07 10:49:43AM
I don't remeber Fisher stuffing a few takedwons.

And I think Edgar is awesome, he could weigh less and still fights really great. At 145 lbs. Edgar would do better but why bother dropping when you're doing so great at 155 lbs?

I think edgar could be a champ at 155...until he has to fight Sherk.
AchillesHeel
11/19/07 11:04:24AM

Posted by State_Champ

I think edgar could be a champ at 155...until he has to fight Sherk.


Let's not go overboard, now.

I would pick Penn, Florian, and Stevenson to beat Edgar. Personally, I think those four guys should compete in a mini-tournament for the vacant belt. Maybe Penn-v-Stevenson and Florian-v-Edgar as the semi-finals in January, then the winners in a title fight in April.

Since that isn't going to happen, I'd like to see Edgar take on the winner of Guida-Huerta.

EDIT: Actually, Florian thinks he might be ready for the Super Bowl Weekend card (UFC 81?). So Florian-Edgar, for the next title shot, could be a real possibility. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
NatedawgThaM
11/19/07 11:49:56AM

Posted by hippysmacker

I said the same thing to my buds watching the fight the other night. While I never thought of him as huge at 155 , I have been telling people for a while that Fisher is too small to ever wrest the belt from Sherk. When the tale of the tape popped up I was intrigued. When they had the face off I realized for the first time how small Edgar really was in comparison to Spencer, who I already thought of as undersized. So I agree with both of you, but would like to add a likely 3rd option to dropping to to 145, or bulking up at 155 . I think he is too small, but he should see how far he could go at this weight before moving down. Despite Griffin fighting at 145 in the past he is still about 170 in the ring IMO, so he can cut but isn't small. Sherk is reportedly 175 in the ring and is very strong at that weight. Edgar is obviously very well rounded , talented , and has the right mentality to be a champion. Even better he could bulk up a bit , obviously a lot of guys at 155 show that a lot more weight can be carried, and if he fails his quest for the belt cut the weight. There is actually a 4th option, and although I think it less likely he has been extremely impressive so far against good competition in the UFC . 4th option- he's like Hendo. Feels he fights his best without cutting, and his functional grappling strength far out weights his physique. No matter which option he chooses. I truly feel he will be a champion in the next 2 years tops.



I agree completely on the most part. Edgar WILL be LW champion once he gets his title shot.

What's all this about Sherk being better or bigger then Edgar? The dude was on steroids and they have the proof on that and even if he didn't want it in his body intentionally, steroids still got in his body. Thats why he's bigger.

Edgar is a HUGE threat at 155. He'd actually be #1 on my list but the freakin UFC never promotes him. They rather promote Tyson Griffin who he dominated and Roger Huerta who he would. NO WAY he should fight the winner of Clay/Huerta. He should be next in line for a title shot. Spencer was up there close with getting a title shot and he dominated him.

Winner of Clay and Roger should fight the loser of BJ/Joe. Kenny Florian should face the loser of Huerta/Guida since either one would be the ultimate test for him.

Edgar is SO underrated it's not even funny. If he did drop to 145 he'd have to g against a HUGE 145lbs Uriah Faber whos big without the roids who would have a better chance of beating Edgar then Sherk.

Edgar is the future and he's going to kil whoever the UFC puts in front of him. I bet whoever says Edgar is too small was thinking the same about Randy in both his UFC HW title runs. He proved ya'll wrong, Edgar will too.

Edgar is #1 in my books, future champ!
tuvok500
11/19/07 11:56:53AM
Well, i don't think that Edgar is too small, there is not only one type of peoples who can be good in this division, of course we see the difference between him and Sherk as an example but it doesn't mean the he will be destroy like a little girl !!

i see Edgar the same way i see a small guy in the HW division , it doesn't mean that he have no chance to become champ !!

AchillesHeel
11/19/07 12:04:28PM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

NO WAY he should fight the winner of Clay/Huerta. He should be next in line for a title shot.


You realize that would mean he wouldn't fight for several months? Penn & Stevenson are scheduled to meet on January 19th, so the next title fight could maybe be in... I dunno... April? You want Edgar sitting on his hands that long? That's what the UFC did to Georges St. Pierre, and it's kinda weak, imo. I want to see the dude fight somebody!

btw, I changed my mind about Edgar. I think he should fight Florian for "#1 Contender status."
Scott_Revels
11/19/07 4:14:09PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

btw, I changed my mind about Edgar. I think he should fight Florian for "#1 Contender status."



I was saying that even before he squashed Fisher.. I always had him right up there next to Kenny, and right behind Joe. I couldn't believe that people thought Fisher was better, when Tyson Griffin would do the same to Fisher that Edgar did, and Edgar beat Griffin.
AchillesHeel
11/19/07 4:21:17PM

Posted by Scott_Revels

I couldn't believe that people thought Fisher was better, when Tyson Griffin would do the same to Fisher that Edgar did, and Edgar beat Griffin.


I overestimated Fisher's takedown defense. Which is to say, I thought he had some...

tuvok500
11/19/07 4:28:40PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Scott_Revels

I couldn't believe that people thought Fisher was better, when Tyson Griffin would do the same to Fisher that Edgar did, and Edgar beat Griffin.


I overestimated Fisher's takedown defense. Which is to say, I thought he had some...





same here !!
Stickan
11/19/07 4:32:21PM

Posted by Scott_Revels


Posted by AchillesHeel

btw, I changed my mind about Edgar. I think he should fight Florian for "#1 Contender status."



I couldn't believe that people thought Fisher was better, when Tyson Griffin would do the same to Fisher that Edgar did, and Edgar beat Griffin.


What has Tyson Griffin got to do with anything?
I thought Fisher would win because
A: Size
B: Better stand-up (Bocek the grappler knocked Edgar down, why couldn't Fisher)
C: He comes from a camp of great wrestlers. If he would have some kind of brain I thought he would improve his takedown defence.

I was very wrong on C. Edgar also fought a great fight and had great transitions between stand-up and takedowns.

I still think UFC should get a 145 division and Edgar should move down to that. I'm not saying he won't have success at 155. I just think he'll have more as a 145.

And NO I'm not one of those guys that think Wandy should move down to 185, Franklin to 170 and Antonio Silva to 155.
Lay_N_Pray
11/19/07 5:00:01PM
Edgar is fine at the weight he is at, but I don't think he is ready to be champion yet or within the next couple months.

Penn, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian would all beat him at the moment. Edgar is good, but the only way he would be able to beat any of those four guys would be by being able to finish, and I'm not sure he knows how to finish consistently.

He can win decisions against most of the division, but he would need a sub or KO to win against the four elite fighters. There is just no way he has the size to go five rounds with those guys
ncordless
11/19/07 5:07:26PM
I agree with the TS. Edgar will have major problems against wrestlers who are stronger than he is, a la Sherk. I really think Edgar has a bright future in MMA, but when he runs into someone else who has a similar background as him and walks around at 170+ he is going to have a real tough time.

In my wrestling career, I've seen pure strength give the edge to two otherwise evenly matched opponents so many times. 155 has become the most athletic class in MMA, and we are seeing a good group smaller LWs out there. Unfortunately for them, the other trend is real quality 170ers dropping down. BJ, Florian, Sherk, Stevenson, and maybe Diego if drops down all have a size advantage that will keep some of the most exciting LWs from reaching the top.
nitro29
11/19/07 5:12:03PM
until he's beaten, he should stay at 155.
stickyhash421
11/20/07 5:14:42AM
too many weight classes...in fact

HW: 220+
LH: 200-220
MW: 180-200
WW: 160-180
LW: 140-160
stickyhash421
11/20/07 5:16:34AM

Posted by Lay_N_Pray

Edgar is fine at the weight he is at, but I don't think he is ready to be champion yet or within the next couple months.

Penn, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian would all beat him at the moment. Edgar is good, but the only way he would be able to beat any of those four guys would be by being able to finish, and I'm not sure he knows how to finish consistently.

He can win decisions against most of the division, but he would need a sub or KO to win against the four elite fighters. There is just no way he has the size to go five rounds with those guys




mehh florian and sherk are not elite, but whatever
ncordless
11/20/07 8:11:36AM

Posted by stickyhash421


Posted by Lay_N_Pray

Edgar is fine at the weight he is at, but I don't think he is ready to be champion yet or within the next couple months.

Penn, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian would all beat him at the moment. Edgar is good, but the only way he would be able to beat any of those four guys would be by being able to finish, and I'm not sure he knows how to finish consistently.

He can win decisions against most of the division, but he would need a sub or KO to win against the four elite fighters. There is just no way he has the size to go five rounds with those guys




mehh florian and sherk are not elite, but whatever




Ok then, who are the elite LWs? In your opinion?
CornishMMA
11/20/07 9:44:24AM
/\ well it would be the 7/8 guys ranked above them mate, Gomi/Kawajiri/Melendez etc etc

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by NatedawgThaM

NO WAY he should fight the winner of Clay/Huerta. He should be next in line for a title shot.


You realize that would mean he wouldn't fight for several months? Penn & Stevenson are scheduled to meet on January 19th, so the next title fight could maybe be in... I dunno... April? You want Edgar sitting on his hands that long?


Nope he said Edgar should fight the winner of Clay/Huerta, so that fight would be around March/April and the winner could be ready to fight the winner of Sherk VS JS/BJ which will likely happen around the same time
ncordless
11/20/07 10:12:56AM

well it would be the 7/8 guys ranked above them mate, Gomi/Kawajiri/Melendez etc etc


Well since the discussion is about Edgar's prospects in the UFC... and none of the guys you mentioned are there... and this is the UFC discussion room... I don't think any of those guys play into what we are talking about here.

CornishMMA
11/20/07 10:17:28AM
Yeah i spose he didnt really say "elite in the ufc" and was thinking elite lw's in general
ncordless
11/20/07 10:50:03AM

Posted by CornishMMA

Yeah i spose he didnt really say "elite in the ufc" and was thinking elite lw's in general



I could roll with that.

I do not like Sherk, and I loathe watching him fight most of the time. But assuming he does not deflate coming of the juice, I just don't see a fighter like Gomi beating him. This is kind of hijacking the thread here, but who sees Gomi winning that fight and how?
AchillesHeel
11/20/07 10:58:07AM

Posted by CornishMMA

Nope he said Edgar should fight the winner of Clay/Huerta, so that fight would be around March/April and the winner could be ready to fight the winner of Sherk VS JS/BJ which will likely happen around the same time


I read it as "Edgar should not fight the winner of Clay-Huerta", as I'd originally suggested, "and should simply await the next title fight." It's academic, really.

Anyway, I don't think you can reasonably cut Florian out of the title picture, especially if Sherk is stripped of the belt. He and Edgar are on a collision course, in my mind.

Only Doerksen and Gono were given post-78 medical suspensions, and I'm not sure Fisher hit Edgar more than a few times. My guess is he could fight again at UFC 80, 19 January - especially if a title shot were in the bargain (and I don't think there'd be any question that the winner of that match would deserve a title shot).
stickyhash421
11/20/07 6:11:52PM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by stickyhash421


Posted by Lay_N_Pray

Edgar is fine at the weight he is at, but I don't think he is ready to be champion yet or within the next couple months.

Penn, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian would all beat him at the moment. Edgar is good, but the only way he would be able to beat any of those four guys would be by being able to finish, and I'm not sure he knows how to finish consistently.

He can win decisions against most of the division, but he would need a sub or KO to win against the four elite fighters. There is just no way he has the size to go five rounds with those guys




mehh florian and sherk are not elite, but whatever




Ok then, who are the elite LWs? In your opinion?





i should probably stop or get flamed but i just dont consider them "elite", there good but i just dont see a top 5 contender in them
Lay_N_Pray
11/20/07 6:42:59PM
I wont flame you. You have a right to your opinion.

I am not a fan of Sherk, but the fact is he is an athletic freak (probably steroids) and he can impose his strength on anyone in that weight class.

Florian I am a fan of and I think his Muay Thai is better than almost all other lightweights in the UFC and his ju-jitsu is very strong. I think he is in the same class as Stevenson, Penn, and Sherk.

Plus Florian knows how to gameplan for each opponent and seems to always bring in the perfect strategy
ncordless
11/20/07 6:48:39PM
No flamage at all, I just was wondering who you think the top 5 LWs in the UFC if Sherk and Florian are not among them?
Related Topics