Frank Shamrock underrated?
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Frank Shamrock underrated?
LHK
7/26/07 2:29:32AM
There was a thread about Henderson being overrated (which he is), but Frank is compeletly underrated and written off.
The guy could beat any MW around, and would give serious problems to anyone at LHW as well. Hell, why not fight at HW, he would make some awesome matchups there as well.
Grappling match versus Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson -
video
And before all the nonsense about him looking bad against Baroni, he was injured and couldn't train cardio (no that it was problem).
The guy could beat any MW around, and would give serious problems to anyone at LHW as well. Hell, why not fight at HW, he would make some awesome matchups there as well.
Grappling match versus Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson -
video
And before all the nonsense about him looking bad against Baroni, he was injured and couldn't train cardio (no that it was problem).
grappler0000
7/26/07 2:52:29AM
What about his horrible performance against Renzo? If he was as good as you say he is, then why is he handpicking his opponents? Why not fight the best fighters?
ocho-cinco
7/26/07 3:26:30AM
It might not be handpicking as much as it is nobody to fight. I'm not sure what started the beef between Frank and the UFC, as I'm somewhat of a new fan, but I would love to see him back. It doesn't look like that will ever happen, but I think He still has something to offer in terms of fighting. In interviews he seems to have such a confident and clear perspective of himself as a fighter, which makes it such a shame we will never again see what he can do in what has to be considered the best MMA league in the world, the UFC. Beating Baroni with no cardio, and a injury so close to the fight, is prety sick.
If anyone can tell me why he is on bad terms with the UFC that would be apreciated.
If anyone can tell me why he is on bad terms with the UFC that would be apreciated.
JuggaloWarrior878
7/26/07 4:15:32AM
i think most people know hes great but his attitude sets them off so they say he isnt that great
cowcatcher
7/26/07 10:41:25AM
Posted by LHK
There was a thread about Henderson being overrated (which he is), but Frank is compeletly underrated and written off.
The guy could beat any MW around, and would give serious problems to anyone at LHW as well. Hell, why not fight at HW, he would make some awesome matchups there as well.
Grappling match versus Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson -
video
And before all the nonsense about him looking bad against Baroni, he was injured and couldn't train cardio (no that it was problem).
henderson is underrated if anything, and shammy is past his prime although at one time IMO he was the best lb for lb in the world. as far as him being injured, and ill type this slowly for you....every fighter comes into a fight with injuries. thats a lame excuse and if he was hurt that bad he wouldnt have fought, especially when we're talking about frank shamrock and his attitude. hes come out and said that he wouldnt fight certain guys and that hes picking his opponents based on matchups. the guy was an outstanding fighter, and ive been a fan for a lot of years, but hes a step down from the anderson silvas, paolo filhos, and dan hendos of the world right now.
CwB
7/26/07 11:36:07AM
I dont think he is underrated i think most of us would agree he is a top ten MW, I think that to be ranked higher, you have to fight higher ranking fighters, not baroni and renzo(even then renzo is talented for his age). i see frank being one of those fighters that can never get a true belt(Pride,UFC) but will always be in the top ten MW.
grappler0000
7/26/07 11:36:25AM
Posted by ocho-cinco
It might not be handpicking as much as it is nobody to fight.
It is handpicking...he even owned up to it in interviews. Even though he's not in the UFC, he could still fight Lindland...but he chooses not to.
LHK
7/26/07 3:21:13PM
Posted by JuggaloWarrior878
i think most people know hes great but his attitude sets them off so they say he isnt that great
Very good point.
Yeah, he picks his opponents. That doesn't reflect his skill, just his personality. He could be the biggest scumbag in the world, that doesn't reflect his skill.
And he almost didn't fight Baroni he was so injured, but decided to be a real man and fight injured. And usually Frank says he is in perfect shape for a fight, which he is.
I agree he cannot be considered the best without fighting the best, which he should do. And he's only 34. I think he's still in his prime, its not like he stopped training, he's been training hardcore his whole career, he's always ready to go. Just cause he hasn't fought a top fighter in a while doesn't mean he's suddenly not in his prime anymore.
I don't see Silva, Hendo, Filho, Lindland or any top MW getting past him. I wish it would happen, if one of them starts running their mouth about Frank maybe it will.
SpiderSilva
7/26/07 5:16:40PM
Frank look decent vs Baroni He looked bad vs Renzo because wasnt that his first fight back two more fights and I believe he will be back to top fourm and maybe back to his old dominating ways if he runs through everyone he fight maybe the UFC will look at bringing him back but as right now all the Top mW would work him a few more fights and he should be on his way
grappler0000
7/26/07 7:36:08PM
Don't get me wrong...I think he is a good fighter. I just don't think he has any business being in the top 10. And to think about him moving up in weight is really fantasy talk...he was capable of doing that several years ago, but the top LHW's today would crush him.
SpiderSilva
7/26/07 7:47:31PM
I would like to see him in a year and see how much he has improved because I believe he will get better
LHK
7/26/07 9:29:44PM
Posted by grappler0000
Don't get me wrong...I think he is a good fighter. I just don't think he has any business being in the top 10. And to think about him moving up in weight is really fantasy talk...he was capable of doing that several years ago, but the top LHW's today would crush him.
Like Tito? I don't think so, looks like your just bitter over the video I posted, your boy Hendo getting beat.
Frank's conditioning is also underrated. It's the best in the sport. Hypothetically if he was outclassed (no one around so far), he would just wear them down and get a decision victory.
grappler0000
7/27/07 12:13:08AM
Posted by LHK
Posted by grappler0000
Don't get me wrong...I think he is a good fighter. I just don't think he has any business being in the top 10. And to think about him moving up in weight is really fantasy talk...he was capable of doing that several years ago, but the top LHW's today would crush him.
Like Tito? I don't think so, looks like your just bitter over the video I posted, your boy Hendo getting beat.
Frank's conditioning is also underrated. It's the best in the sport. Hypothetically if he was outclassed (no one around so far), he would just wear them down and get a decision victory.
Frank was phenominal in his prime...2 problems. (1) he's no longer in his prime. (2) the competition has gotten better. He is still a good fighter, just not top 10.
Hendo is lightyears ahead of where he was in that video...not to mention, that was sub wrestling...in MMA Frank wouldn't get past his right hand. I can show you videos of Wandy getting wooped by Belfort and Ortiz, but it doesn't mean the same thing would happen today. The video really proves nothing.
Frank looked pretty good against Baroni...but he was getting beat by Renzo, when he decided to lose by DQ vs decision. I've always like Frank as a fighter, but he lost my respect when he did that. Neither Baroni or Renzo are top 10, so Frank needs to pick better competition before he gets ranked again.
TOMMYAYO05
7/27/07 12:16:52AM
I dont underrate him hes in my top ten
LHK
7/28/07 3:54:31PM
Posted by grappler0000
Frank was phenominal in his prime...2 problems. (1) he's no longer in his prime. (2) the competition has gotten better. He is still a good fighter, just not top 10.
Hendo is lightyears ahead of where he was in that video...not to mention, that was sub wrestling...in MMA Frank wouldn't get past his right hand. I can show you videos of Wandy getting wooped by Belfort and Ortiz, but it doesn't mean the same thing would happen today. The video really proves nothing.
Frank looked pretty good against Baroni...but he was getting beat by Renzo, when he decided to lose by DQ vs decision. I've always like Frank as a fighter, but he lost my respect when he did that. Neither Baroni or Renzo are top 10, so Frank needs to pick better competition before he gets ranked again.
Its your opinion he is no longer in his prime. He was injured against Baroni, not fair to judge. And he was ahead on points against Renzo. He admitted himself he was not familiar with the rules...which is classless and still no excuse, but there is no way he would "lose" on purpose in any way, his ego is too big.
And whether Frank has people's respect or not does not affect his skill level.
And Frank is a better overall striker then Hendo, he would be more then fine on his feet. The video proves a lot...that Frank could hang with an Olympic wrestler on the ground. Sure, it doesn't automatically prove he would win in an MMA fight, but it's a nice measuring stick in one aspect of MMA.
The competion has gotten better...but once again, that doesn't make Frank worse, his abilities are still tops. It just means the matchups would be more interesting.
warglory
7/28/07 4:25:22PM
Posted by LHK
Posted by grappler0000
Frank was phenominal in his prime...2 problems. (1) he's no longer in his prime. (2) the competition has gotten better. He is still a good fighter, just not top 10.
Hendo is lightyears ahead of where he was in that video...not to mention, that was sub wrestling...in MMA Frank wouldn't get past his right hand. I can show you videos of Wandy getting wooped by Belfort and Ortiz, but it doesn't mean the same thing would happen today. The video really proves nothing.
Frank looked pretty good against Baroni...but he was getting beat by Renzo, when he decided to lose by DQ vs decision. I've always like Frank as a fighter, but he lost my respect when he did that. Neither Baroni or Renzo are top 10, so Frank needs to pick better competition before he gets ranked again.
Its your opinion he is no longer in his prime. He was injured against Baroni, not fair to judge. And he was ahead on points against Renzo. He admitted himself he was not familiar with the rules...which is classless and still no excuse, but there is no way he would "lose" on purpose in any way, his ego is too big.
And whether Frank has people's respect or not does not affect his skill level.
And Frank is a better overall striker then Hendo, he would be more then fine on his feet. The video proves a lot...that Frank could hang with an Olympic wrestler on the ground. Sure, it doesn't automatically prove he would win in an MMA fight, but it's a nice measuring stick in one aspect of MMA.
The competion has gotten better...but once again, that doesn't make Frank worse, his abilities are still tops. It just means the matchups would be more interesting.
The video doesn't prove anything. It is like comparing two guys fighting in a bjj competition with gis, to a competition with no gis. Hendo is a good wrestler, but he is a master at MMA. He is one of the few who is able to think a few steps ahead. He is great at determining whether or not he can maintain ground control, and if he decides he cant, he is great at scrambling out.
As far as stand up, I am pretty sure Hendo would whoop Frank. The competition that Dan has had experience with (with which to hone his skills), far outweighs all of Frank's opponents in every way. Hendo is one of the few who has the privilege of fighting the best of the best in TWO weight divisions, and has defeated both of their champions. When Frank was top dog, the competition was simply not as fierce.
I am not going to go as far as saying Frank is washed up, because he still has skill, but I don't think he could last in the top 10. I think even someone like Jason MacDonald would beat him.
LHK
7/28/07 8:39:43PM
Posted by warglory
I am not going to go as far as saying Frank is washed up, because he still has skill, but I don't think he could last in the top 10. I think even someone like Jason MacDonald would beat him.
I was going to take your post seriously, but Jason MacDonald made it a joke.
warglory
7/29/07 3:50:20AM
Posted by LHK
Posted by warglory
I am not going to go as far as saying Frank is washed up, because he still has skill, but I don't think he could last in the top 10. I think even someone like Jason MacDonald would beat him.
I was going to take your post seriously, but Jason MacDonald made it a joke.
Seriously, what makes you think that Shamrock is so fierce in 2007? Why do you say he is underrated? I mean we see people all the time saying Tito isn't a quality warrior anymore based on the fact he hasn't beaten any quality competition in awhile. Frank is the same way, except I should rephrase the question for his sake: When was the last time Frank simply fought quality competition, let alone beat them.
I am not saying you are wrong man, I just think your reasoning is a bit over the top.
And Jason MacDonald is a quality fighter.