Frank Shamrock: I Did Not Offer to Take a Dive Against Kimbo Slice

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emfleek
3/22/11 10:05:37AM
Frank Shamrock says former EliteXC matchmaker Jared Shaw's recent claim of Shamrock offering to take a dive against Kimbo Slice in the main event of EliteXC-CBS on Oct. 4, 2008 was fabricated.

"No, absolutely not," Shamrock said Monday on The MMA Hour, when asked by host Ariel Helwani about Shaw's claim. "That's some movie b.s. right there."

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Twenty20Dollars
3/22/11 11:50:00AM
I think Shaw did want someone to take a dive against Kimbo, whether he said it or not.
jjeans
3/22/11 12:34:33PM
Did they not pay or ask Seth to stand with Kimbo anyway? I read that somewhere, he said he wouldn't but yet he did anyway
icantthinkofanything
3/22/11 12:54:46PM
I heard he was gonna replace his brother since Ken got a cut,


I doubt Shammy would throw a fight,


he is way to concerned with his nickname "legend" to throw it all away and lose to a hw, especially since he would make the same money beating someone smaller and easier to fight.
finnish_line
3/22/11 1:16:42PM

Posted by icantthinkofanything

especially since he would make the same money beating someone smaller and easier to fight.




This was so last minute that it could be a "name your price" situation though.
machodog76
3/22/11 2:05:31PM
The shaws are full of s**t, I don't beleive anything they say. The only guy who took a dive aginst Kimbo was Bo Cantrel (in my opinion). Then of course there's the TKO of James Thompson for a Cauliflower ear popping, and the alledged no ground stipulation with Ken, Man! Elitexc was corrupt. I bet Frank was offerd cash to take a dive and said no and this is just sour grapes from scumbag Shaw Jr.
RearNakedJoke
3/22/11 2:49:55PM
I dont doubt that Frank offered to throw the fight. He sounded desperate to take Kens spot and steal his thunder. There is not a doubt in my mind that he said it just to get the fight and would have taken kimbo down and subbed him.
bojangalz
3/22/11 3:16:14PM
This whole story originated with this interview. Believe it or not, Shaw comes off as far less of a tool than you'd expect. As for the meat of the story, I don't see how either $kala or Franky Shams have enough credibility banked up for either's word to be trusted. But this certainly is a fun glimpse into the debacle that was the Shaw era in MMA.
FastKnockout
3/22/11 3:32:12PM
I don't like Kimbo anywhere near MMA. Never did, never will, and I wouldn't put it past Frank to offer to throw the fight.
Svartorm
3/22/11 5:43:55PM
It's hard to believe Shamrock when he blatantly lied in the interview about having never done worked fights. A lot of Pancrase bouts were works, and I've seen him in more than one from that promotion.
mrsmiley
3/22/11 7:37:47PM
I take franks side on the situation.
He's so ashamed of what Ken has done I don't think he would have thrown the Kimbo fight.
postman
3/22/11 8:56:43PM
A few highlights I got today from Sherdog radio for those who have no listened yet.

1. Frank fought in Pancress and as stated before worked fights happened all the time there.

2. Frank was and still is a share holder of Pro Elite he had a huge Financial intrest in Elite XC. This was the CBS card Kimbo had to fight.

3. Shamrock claims he offred to fight him but Shaw said no. He said he would make Kimbo look like a million bucks. When asked if that ment he would carry him Shamrock said no I would have kicked the crap out of him with style.

4. Shaw claims he felt Frank and Cung Le Fixed thier fight. Sighting why would Frank not take him to the floor?

5. Lastly one of them claimed that Ken may have cut himself to get out of the Kimbo fight.

Its all really intresting. I didn't get to listen to the sunday sit down yet but the Savage dog show and Beatdown covered this very well. In the end its the word of one snake agianst the other.
mrsmiley
3/22/11 10:49:39PM
One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.

Yeah,i'm sure pancrase had some worked bouts,though how many i'm not sure of,and everyone one of Pancrase top elite have different stories to tell about the situation. I know Ken had at least one fixed fight for sure but i really don't know about the other fighters and the situations they delt with.
Like Bas said, "the fights where only fixed when the champions had to lose a fight but never when they won a title." That I believe carries merit with it.

But while we are on the topic of fixed fights in Japan i feel it very important that we remove our western perception of the idea and look at it from the view of the Japanese for a moment (something most never attempt to do) and keep from demonizing it so much. MMA in Japan did not really originally come from the UFC but devolped through their own pro-wrestling and the need to watch bouts that where not all "fixed",or not completely fake. Watch the first few original RINGS events and you will see the evolution from complete pro-wrestling,to stiff wrestling,to full on MMA. It had a different system of development in Japan and would be influenced by what is now known as MMA but was not created by it.
In short,fights that where somewhat worked or planned out was not so big a deal in Japan,or at least not to the Japanese.
machodog76
3/23/11 1:41:43AM

Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.

Yeah,i'm sure pancrase had some worked bouts,though how many i'm not sure of,and everyone one of Pancrase top elite have different stories to tell about the situation. I know Ken had at least one fixed fight for sure but i really don't know about the other fighters and the situations they delt with.
Like Bas said, "the fights where only fixed when the champions had to lose a fight but never when they won a title." That I believe carries merit with it.

But while we are on the topic of fixed fights in Japan i feel it very important that we remove our western perception of the idea and look at it from the view of the Japanese for a moment (something most never attempt to do) and keep from demonizing it so much. MMA in Japan did not really originally come from the UFC but devolped through their own pro-wrestling and the need to watch bouts that where not all "fixed",or not completely fake. Watch the first few original RINGS events and you will see the evolution from complete pro-wrestling,to stiff wrestling,to full on MMA. It had a different system of development in Japan and would be influenced by what is now known as MMA but was not created by it.
In short,fights that where somewhat worked or planned out was not so big a deal in Japan,or at least not to the Japanese.

It's hard to ignore the horrible decisions though, Ninja vs Rampage always comes to mind for me. organized crime has a big hand in JMMA. There are countless instances of refs enforcing rules very differently for non- Japanese fighters.
Sam_Rothstein
3/23/11 5:02:47AM

Posted by jjeans

Did they not pay or ask Seth to stand with Kimbo anyway? I read that somewhere, he said he wouldn't but yet he did anyway



Thats what Seth Petruzelli was claiming but Elite XC denied it. Who knows if this is true either since obviously Frank is denying it as well. It does make ya think though.




Posted by Svartorm

It's hard to believe Shamrock when he blatantly lied in the interview about having never done worked fights. A lot of Pancrase bouts were works, and I've seen him in more than one from that promotion.



no ****? when did that come to light? I never heard anything about it.
mrsmiley
3/23/11 6:17:13AM

Posted by machodog76


Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.

Yeah,i'm sure pancrase had some worked bouts,though how many i'm not sure of,and everyone one of Pancrase top elite have different stories to tell about the situation. I know Ken had at least one fixed fight for sure but i really don't know about the other fighters and the situations they delt with.
Like Bas said, "the fights where only fixed when the champions had to lose a fight but never when they won a title." That I believe carries merit with it.

But while we are on the topic of fixed fights in Japan i feel it very important that we remove our western perception of the idea and look at it from the view of the Japanese for a moment (something most never attempt to do) and keep from demonizing it so much. MMA in Japan did not really originally come from the UFC but devolped through their own pro-wrestling and the need to watch bouts that where not all "fixed",or not completely fake. Watch the first few original RINGS events and you will see the evolution from complete pro-wrestling,to stiff wrestling,to full on MMA. It had a different system of development in Japan and would be influenced by what is now known as MMA but was not created by it.
In short,fights that where somewhat worked or planned out was not so big a deal in Japan,or at least not to the Japanese.

It's hard to ignore the horrible decisions though, Ninja vs Rampage always comes to mind for me. organized crime has a big hand in JMMA. There are countless instances of refs enforcing rules very differently for non- Japanese fighters.



Terrible decisions happen in the west as well. Bisping vs Hamill anyone?
Their are many instances of refs enforcing rules differently for non-japanese and the biggest case of this is for a group of fighters that are not even japanese. The Gracies. They where the one group that got special rules when they wanted them.
As for organized crime in Japan within MMA, it's just as bad in America. The Fertitta's have a long,long,family history tied very closely to the *****. fertitta and organized crime
Also read the book Total MMA to learn even more about it.
Now i'm in no way implying the UFC has ever or will ever throw fights but lets just pretend Zuffa collapsed tomorrow and the UFC was no more. You would only be kidding yourself if you don't think fighters would come foward with some not so favorable accusations to make against the UFC. Hell,they already do it now,I can only imagine the wild stories we would hear about what went on behind the curtain.
ncordless
3/23/11 6:36:33AM

Posted by bojangalz

This whole story originated with this interview. Believe it or not, Shaw comes off as far less of a tool than you'd expect. As for the meat of the story, I don't see how either $kala or Franky Shams have enough credibility banked up for either's word to be trusted. But this certainly is a fun glimpse into the debacle that was the Shaw era in MMA.



Someone should write a book about all the crazy bastards that got involved in mma for a while.

If someone just focused on the stories about how EliteXC, IFL, BoDog, YAMMA, and Affliction ran their business it would be a best-selling comedy.

IFL and BoDog might have been the worst from just a business standpoint, but EXC was great for its sleeze and YAMMA was, well, it was YAMMA.
postman
3/23/11 7:32:46AM

Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.



I would encourage you to listen to the Savage Dog show. They start ir off with the Shamrock interview first thing. It came from his lips I would make him look like a million bucks. When asked what that ment he said he would kick the crap out of him with style or something like that. I don't know about you but when was the last time you saw someone get the crap kicked out of them and thought man that guy looks like a million bucks......Other then Brock lesnar losing to Cain
mrsmiley
3/23/11 11:25:53AM

Posted by postman


Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.



I would encourage you to listen to the Savage Dog show. They start ir off with the Shamrock interview first thing. It came from his lips I would make him look like a million bucks. When asked what that ment he said he would kick the crap out of him with style or something like that. I don't know about you but when was the last time you saw someone get the crap kicked out of them and thought man that guy looks like a million bucks......Other then Brock lesnar losing to Cain



Frank is talking about putting on a show. At least in my opinion. Kimbo was drawing big numbers and Frank along with all the other guys at Elite knew one dent in his armor would bring the whole thing crashing down since their entire brand was built on one man. I don't think if Frank would have fought Kimbo he would have been out to finish him from the get go but rather would keep the fight on the feet (like Petruzelli claims he was instructed to do) and make him look good. The superstar rookie hangs in with the vet and holds his own. AKA/apollo vs Rocky fight one,only Frank is in the role of Apollo. In that respect I do think Frank is lying. I think he would have carried Kimbo into the later rounds just to make him look good regardless of what he says now. It would have made for a good fight.
I've herd Frank talk about it numerous times so to me,I find it strange Shaw makes such an issue of this now,but I guess you gotta keep your name in the limelight somehow.
Svartorm
3/23/11 11:50:08AM

Posted by Sam_Rothstein


Posted by jjeans

Did they not pay or ask Seth to stand with Kimbo anyway? I read that somewhere, he said he wouldn't but yet he did anyway



Thats what Seth Petruzelli was claiming but Elite XC denied it. Who knows if this is true either since obviously Frank is denying it as well. It does make ya think though.




Posted by Svartorm

It's hard to believe Shamrock when he blatantly lied in the interview about having never done worked fights. A lot of Pancrase bouts were works, and I've seen him in more than one from that promotion.



no ****? when did that come to light? I never heard anything about it.



It never really "came to light" because it was before his time in UFC, which is ancient history. Just watch some of his Pancrase bouts (not the famous ones) and you'll see what I mean. It's basically stiff pro-wrestling, but clearly fake.
machodog76
3/23/11 1:46:34PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by machodog76


Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.

Yeah,i'm sure pancrase had some worked bouts,though how many i'm not sure of,and everyone one of Pancrase top elite have different stories to tell about the situation. I know Ken had at least one fixed fight for sure but i really don't know about the other fighters and the situations they delt with.
Like Bas said, "the fights where only fixed when the champions had to lose a fight but never when they won a title." That I believe carries merit with it.

But while we are on the topic of fixed fights in Japan i feel it very important that we remove our western perception of the idea and look at it from the view of the Japanese for a moment (something most never attempt to do) and keep from demonizing it so much. MMA in Japan did not really originally come from the UFC but devolped through their own pro-wrestling and the need to watch bouts that where not all "fixed",or not completely fake. Watch the first few original, RINGS events and you will see the evolution from complete pro-wrestling,to stiff wrestling,to full on MMA. It had a different system of development in Japan and would be influenced by what is now known as MMA but was not created by it.
In short,fights that where somewhat worked or planned out was not so big a deal in Japan,or at least not to the Japanese.

It's hard to ignore the horrible decisions though, Ninja vs Rampage always comes to mind for me. organized crime has a big hand in JMMA. There are countless instances of refs enforcing rules very differently for non- Japanese fighters.



Terrible decisions happen in the west as well. Bisping vs Hamill anyone?
Their are many instances of refs enforcing rules differently for non-japanese and the biggest case of this is for a group of fighters that are not even japanese. The Gracies. They where the one group that got special rules when they wanted them.
As for organized crime in Japan within MMA, it's just as bad in America. The Fertitta's have a long,long,family history tied very closely to the *****. fertitta and organized crime
Also read the book Total MMA to learn even more about it.
Now i'm in no way implying the UFC has ever or will ever throw fights but lets just pretend Zuffa collapsed tomorrow and the UFC was no more. You would only be kidding yourself if you don't think fighters would come foward with some not so favorable accusations to make against the UFC. Hell,they already do it now,I can only imagine the wild stories we would hear about what went on behind the curtain.

I've never seen a guy get completely dominated in the UFC like the Japanese Judo guy who fought on the Dynamite card this year (I think his name is izumi?)and win the decision. I have to agree that there are some questionable decisions in the US. But JMMA is much more corrupt I own and have watched every Pride DVD you can get and I've seen almost every UFC and I don't think you can compare the two in terms of biased officiating and crappy decisions. I will check out that link though thanks. As for smaller shows I'm sure there are plenty of shady dealings. when you talk about the gracies are you refering to the Royce Yoshida fight where the ref basicaly stole the fight away from Royce with a phantom tap? I know the time limit was changed but I can't remember any other special rule changes for that one.
mrsmiley
3/23/11 6:37:53PM

Posted by machodog76


Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by machodog76


Posted by mrsmiley

One Interview I saw with Frank said he would make the fight entertaining. But being entertaining and throwing a fight can be two completely different things all together.

Yeah,i'm sure pancrase had some worked bouts,though how many i'm not sure of,and everyone one of Pancrase top elite have different stories to tell about the situation. I know Ken had at least one fixed fight for sure but i really don't know about the other fighters and the situations they delt with.
Like Bas said, "the fights where only fixed when the champions had to lose a fight but never when they won a title." That I believe carries merit with it.

But while we are on the topic of fixed fights in Japan i feel it very important that we remove our western perception of the idea and look at it from the view of the Japanese for a moment (something most never attempt to do) and keep from demonizing it so much. MMA in Japan did not really originally come from the UFC but devolped through their own pro-wrestling and the need to watch bouts that where not all "fixed",or not completely fake. Watch the first few original, RINGS events and you will see the evolution from complete pro-wrestling,to stiff wrestling,to full on MMA. It had a different system of development in Japan and would be influenced by what is now known as MMA but was not created by it.
In short,fights that where somewhat worked or planned out was not so big a deal in Japan,or at least not to the Japanese.

It's hard to ignore the horrible decisions though, Ninja vs Rampage always comes to mind for me. organized crime has a big hand in JMMA. There are countless instances of refs enforcing rules very differently for non- Japanese fighters.



Terrible decisions happen in the west as well. Bisping vs Hamill anyone?
Their are many instances of refs enforcing rules differently for non-japanese and the biggest case of this is for a group of fighters that are not even japanese. The Gracies. They where the one group that got special rules when they wanted them.
As for organized crime in Japan within MMA, it's just as bad in America. The Fertitta's have a long,long,family history tied very closely to the *****. fertitta and organized crime
Also read the book Total MMA to learn even more about it.
Now i'm in no way implying the UFC has ever or will ever throw fights but lets just pretend Zuffa collapsed tomorrow and the UFC was no more. You would only be kidding yourself if you don't think fighters would come foward with some not so favorable accusations to make against the UFC. Hell,they already do it now,I can only imagine the wild stories we would hear about what went on behind the curtain.

I've never seen a guy get completely dominated in the UFC like the Japanese Judo guy who fought on the Dynamite card this year (I think his name is izumi?)and win the decision. I have to agree that there are some questionable decisions in the US. But JMMA is much more corrupt I own and have watched every Pride DVD you can get and I've seen almost every UFC and I don't think you can compare the two in terms of biased officiating and crappy decisions. I will check out that link though thanks. As for smaller shows I'm sure there are plenty of shady dealings. when you talk about the gracies are you refering to the Royce Yoshida fight where the ref basicaly stole the fight away from Royce with a phantom tap? I know the time limit was changed but I can't remember any other special rule changes for that one.



The fight with Yoshida was not under MMA rules due to Royce's request (this is why only their second fight shows up on his sherdog record) and dont forget about his special rules during the Saku fight as well. People have debated since the first fight whether Royce was out or not. Some say he was out others say no,but because of the special rules Royce demanded the second fight was considered a draw,when under regular MMA rules Royce probably would have won it. While i'm thinking about it do you own the orginal copy of final conflict 2003? Everyone else I know owns the rereleased Zuffa edition. I've herd it's worth quiet a bit of money but I never even seen it for sale now.



I can't comment on the Dynamite fight because i haven't seen it,but I do find the dichotomy of interpertation between what happens in the east and the west astounding. If a referee makes a bad call in the west (and boy have their been some big ones) he's just a bad ref. If alot of these same fights happened in Japan we would just call them works or corrupt bouts.I still think the real reason why machida won the first fight against Shogun was probably because cecil peoples had some money on the fight running through a second hand man. I still can remember in his interview about the fight he made the comment that he's sorry if people lost their damn money. I know alot of people that didn't have any money on that fight and where just upset because the wrong man got the nod. I would say the judging in the UFC is just as bad,if not worse than it has ever been in Japan. Probably due more to their being a wide margin of interpertation on how to score a fight,but maybe that's not the whole story.

Listen i'm not saying their is no fixed fights in Japan and that their is no nationlistic standards they place on their fights,all i'm saying is I think it happens a lot more in the west then alot of people care to admit or even think about. These forums have been lit up in months past about bad calls made by judges and refs within the UFC alone. The biggest difference is the curtains where pulled in Japan and we saw a little into what was going on behind the scenes. where as the Ferittas have manged to keep their shady past under the rug and out of the lime light quiet well. I'm going to try not to go too deep into this conversation because their are forums guidelines in regards to talking about this type of stuff so if you wish to continue we would be better off sending PM's on the subject.
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