Frank Mir on Couture return, title fights and "shark" Nogueira

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Porch28
9/13/08 1:29:14PM
With filming of the eighth season of "The Ultimate Fighter" complete, former UFC-heavyweight champion Frank Mir is now free to focus on his December UFC interim heavyweight title clash with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.



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MALICE
9/13/08 1:43:29PM
I've always liked Mir. When he is in shape, he subs most guys very easily. He stormed through the UFC HW division to get the title. Then he had his accident, and didn't look like the old FranK Mir when he returned.

He has appeared to be back on track with his last few fights. I think Mir has a decent chance against Couture and Lesnar(Iknow he already beat Lesnar, I mean if he has to face him again), but Nogueira will be his toughest test.

Mir's standup has never looked very impressive. But I believe his jits is close if not equal to Nog's. When it applies to mma that is. Is this a 3 or 5 round fight? Mir definitely has a better chance in a 3 round fight.

I'm rooting for Mir, but I believe Nog is the safe bet.
jiujitsufreak74
9/13/08 1:52:14PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

I've always liked Mir. When he is in shape, he subs most guys very easily. He stormed through the UFC HW division to get the title. Then he had his accident, and didn't look like the old FranK Mir when he returned.

He has appeared to be back on track with his last few fights. I think Mir has a decent chance against Couture and Lesnar, but Nogueira will be his toughest test.

Mir's standup has never looked very impressive. But I believe his jits is close if not equal to Nog's. When it applies to mma that is. Is this a 3 or 5 round fight? Mir definitely has a better chance in a 3 round fight.

I'm rooting for Mir, but I believe Nog is the safe bet.



i just want to say this to everyone reading this post: ***DO NOT FLAME HIMFOR SAYING MIR'S JJ IS CLOSE TO BIG NOG'S***

the reason being that he is correct. in terms of MMA Mir's JJ isn't too far behind Big Nog's. now at first, it sounds crazy, but i am telling you that imo it is not. and i am pretty knowledgeable in JJ if i do say so myself.

oh, and i would like to say i love Mir's interviews. his analogy of fighting Big Nog was hilarious and he definitely knows what he is talking about.
Jackelope
9/13/08 1:56:41PM
I think the main thing is that Mir's offensive JJ applies so well to MMA that we've rarely seen its equal.
MALICE
9/13/08 1:59:22PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by xxMALICExx

I've always liked Mir. When he is in shape, he subs most guys very easily. He stormed through the UFC HW division to get the title. Then he had his accident, and didn't look like the old FranK Mir when he returned.

He has appeared to be back on track with his last few fights. I think Mir has a decent chance against Couture and Lesnar, but Nogueira will be his toughest test.

Mir's standup has never looked very impressive. But I believe his jits is close if not equal to Nog's. When it applies to mma that is. Is this a 3 or 5 round fight? Mir definitely has a better chance in a 3 round fight.

I'm rooting for Mir, but I believe Nog is the safe bet.



i just want to say this to everyone reading this post: ***DO NOT FLAME HIMFOR SAYING MIR'S JJ IS CLOSE TO BIG NOG'S***

the reason being that he is correct. in terms of MMA Mir's JJ isn't too far behind Big Nog's. now at first, it sounds crazy, but i am telling you that imo it is not. and i am pretty knowledgeable in JJ if i do say so myself.

oh, and i would like to say i love Mir's interviews. his analogy of fighting Big Nog was hilarious and he definitely knows what he is talking about.



Thanks. I wanted to be clear that I was only talking about JJ in MMA. I also enjoy Mir's interviews. Always respectful. And very knowledgeable.
bullettdodger
9/13/08 2:14:30PM
I agree, i think the JJ pedigrees neutralize each other and the man with better stand up and conditioning wins this fight.
The-Don
9/13/08 3:10:57PM
I think this is going to turn out to be a very exciting fight.. it seems both fighters have alot of respect for each other which I have always noticed makes the fights just that much better... I have a feeling this fight is going to be won standing up or in a GnP fashion .. I think Nog is better with his hands... but Mir is better at kicking.. means Nog will have to get a bit closer.. REgardless I think this is going to be one of the top fights of the year.. If Mir can pull of a Sub victory it would be amazing for him... Fedor was unable to do that.. a KO would be awesome.. Fedor failed their as well.. Basicly if Mir could finish Nog it would be awesome for his carrear... bring the fight to decision would be good as well even if he loses.. Nog to have a good win I think needs to put mir away... Mir by many is the underdog in this fight... but I think he has a better chance then most are giving him
Diamondback2
9/13/08 3:28:02PM
This is one hell of an interesting fight. Without rewatching recent fights (which is big for me) i think Mir and Nog have equal MMA JJ, just diffrent types.

Mir's offensive JJ is much better. Point in case look at Mir's 7 professional subs.

Triangle at 2:05 in Rd 1

Armbar at 1:05 in Rd 1

Shoulder Lock at :46 in Rd 1

Toe Hold at :46 in Rd 1

Technical Submission at :50 in Rd 1

Kimura at 1:17 in Rd 1

Kneebar at 1:30 in Rd 1

Notice a pattern.....?

I dont feel like listing all 19 of Nog's sub's but he only submits opponents in the 1st round 58% (rounded up) of the time.

Mir has 100% of his sub's in Rd 1.

I think Mir COULD submit Nog from his back in RD 1 or 2. Or both thier JJ is so damn good it'll look like Werdum/Gonzaga on the ground. I think Nog's lay back and wait for RD 3+ to get real active might work against him.

But i can't wait for this fight and IMO isn't any less important with Randy coming back.

jocka
9/13/08 3:43:01PM
I also think that .ir has a better chance that modt people think. The fight will definitly be won on their feet and everybody knows that Mir's stand up is not great so I see ,og winning by KO or TKO in the 2sd rd
jiujitsufreak74
9/13/08 3:51:56PM

Posted by Diamondback2

This is one hell of an interesting fight. Without rewatching recent fights (which is big for me) i think Mir and Nog have equal MMA JJ, just diffrent types.

Mir's offensive JJ is much better. Point in case look at Mir's 7 professional subs.

Triangle at 2:05 in Rd 1

Armbar at 1:05 in Rd 1

Shoulder Lock at :46 in Rd 1

Toe Hold at :46 in Rd 1

Technical Submission at :50 in Rd 1

Kimura at 1:17 in Rd 1

Kneebar at 1:30 in Rd 1

Notice a pattern.....?

I dont feel like listing all 19 of Nog's sub's but he only submits opponents in the 1st round 58% (rounded up) of the time.

Mir has 100% of his sub's in Rd 1.

I think Mir COULD submit Nog from his back in RD 1 or 2. Or both thier JJ is so damn good it'll look like Werdum/Gonzaga on the ground. I think Nog's lay back and wait for RD 3+ to get real active might work against him.

But i can't wait for this fight and IMO isn't any less important with Randy coming back.




the amount of subs in the first round has absolutely no bearing imo. look at the opponents that Nog has finished with submissions and then look at the opponents Mir has finished with submissions. Nog's defensive JJ is way too good for me to think Mir catches him, not to mention Nogueira can position himself with the best of them. i also think that Nog won't be able to catch Mir eitehr since if this fight is going to be on the ground Mir will be the aggressor and Nog will have less submission attempts. i am very interested to see how this fight goes, because anyone can win ti if it hits the ground and anyone can win it if it stays on the feet.
MALICE
9/13/08 3:57:20PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74
the amount of subs in the first round has absolutely no bearing imo. look at the opponents that Nog has finished with submissions and then look at the opponents Mir has finished with submissions. Nog's defensive JJ is way too good for me to think Mir catches him, not to mention Nogueira can position himself with the best of them. i also think that Nog won't be able to catch Mir eitehr since if this fight is going to be on the ground Mir will be the aggressor and Nog will have less submission attempts. i am very interested to see how this fight goes, because anyone can win ti if it hits the ground and anyone can win it if it stays on the feet.



I agree. This will be a great fight. If either fighter finishes the fight, it will be in spectacular fashion. More so for Mir, than Nog. But it will still be incredible.
Gipper
9/13/08 4:28:32PM
the couture lesner fight takes nothing away from the nog mir fight in my mind. if mir can beat nog it will be his biggest win of his career and he'll still get a belt
ThePlague
9/13/08 4:38:54PM
Even before his accident Mir got Tko'd when he couldn't submit a Ian Freeman. If Nog uses his defensive jiujitsu and boxes and uses G&P, I think he'll finish it.

This could easily turn out to be a more exciting fight than Brock/Randy, but I see how it takes some of the luster out of this one from a casual fan's perspective.
imanidiot777
9/13/08 5:02:19PM
"You just drown out there," Mir said of facing Nogueira. "It's almost like he's a shark -- and you're beating him up, you're beating him up -- and he's like, 'Yeah, but you're in the water. Eventually you're going to get tired, and I'm going to eat you.'"

What a great line, period.

Back on topic, I think Mir's MMA JJ is just about up to Nog's as well but I think Nog's cardio will be better and I think no matter what he will make it to the 3rd round, even if he has 3 broken limbs to get there lol. I'm picking Nog but I could see Mir actually catching Nob with something.
Diamondback2
9/13/08 5:08:24PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

the amount of subs in the first round has absolutely no bearing imo. look at the opponents that Nog has finished with submissions and then look at the opponents Mir has finished with submissions. Nog's defensive JJ is way too good for me to think Mir catches him, not to mention Nogueira can position himself with the best of them. i also think that Nog won't be able to catch Mir eitehr since if this fight is going to be on the ground Mir will be the aggressor and Nog will have less submission attempts. i am very interested to see how this fight goes, because anyone can win ti if it hits the ground and anyone can win it if it stays on the feet.



I wasn't very clear on my point there looking back at it i was just using the first round subs as refrence to Mir's Offensive MMA JJ being better.

Nog has a very superior defensive MMA JJ, look how easily Mir gave up bad posistions in the Lesnar fight. Nog somehow always manages to pull guard or half-guard.

This is defintly the best offensive JJ player in the HW division vs. The best defensive JJ player in the HW division.

Can't remember the last time it's been such a high level JJ match. even werdum/gonzaga was two high level JJ players, not 2 high level MMA JJ players.

That being said i don't think on the ground it will be boring, thier sytles work so well against each other.

At first when i heard about this fight i thought "Nog, all day", now the more i think about it it seems like a pretty even match.
Porch28
9/13/08 5:08:54PM
They will both gas by the third or fifth and it will be a UD
haggiswashere
9/13/08 5:35:47PM
Mir is my favorite out of the four but seems to be the underdog of the bunch. I personally think from favored to underdog it goes Nogueira, Couture, Mir, then Lesnar. Alot of people are giving lesnar more credit than i think he deserves. I want it to end up being Mir vs Couture at the end but realistically i think it will end up as Nog vs Couture.
tooly236
9/13/08 9:46:15PM
Nog is awesome and a legend of this sport, but he is very slow lately, and Mir does have the power to break limbs. I still think Nog will win, but it would not shock me to see Mir sub him. Nog has looked very slugish lately.
Wolfenstein
9/13/08 10:03:23PM
Mir and Nog are pretty even in terms of BJJ for MMA, but I think Nog's top game is a lot better.

This fight isn't going to be won in the standup or on the ground. It's going to come down to conditioning, and anyone who has watched Frank fight knows that he gasses halfway through round 2.
jiujitsufreak74
9/13/08 10:21:43PM

Posted by Porch28

They will both gas by the third or fifth and it will be a UD





Nog doesn't gas, he just gets beat to the point where he looks a little sloppy. be aware that Nog has went the distance many, many times and he is always a threat no matter how far into the fight you are.
haggiswashere
9/13/08 10:25:48PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Porch28

They will both gas by the third or fifth and it will be a UD





Nog doesn't gas, he just gets beat to the point where he looks a little sloppy. be aware that Nog has went the distance many, many times and he is always a threat no matter how far into the fight you are.



wow you seem like the type of guy who gets beat up all the time so he trys to make people seem stupid online. it was his opinion. people like you are the reason most members don't post. you can have your opinion but you don't need to ridicule the guy. ridiculous.
jiujitsufreak74
9/13/08 10:31:10PM

Posted by haggiswashere


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Porch28

They will both gas by the third or fifth and it will be a UD





Nog doesn't gas, he just gets beat to the point where he looks a little sloppy. be aware that Nog has went the distance many, many times and he is always a threat no matter how far into the fight you are.



wow you seem like the type of guy who gets beat up all the time so he trys to make people seem stupid online. it was his opinion. people like you are the reason most members don't post. you can have your opinion but you don't need to ridicule the guy. ridiculous.



i was laughing at the ridiculousness of my analogy...it reminded me of a chuck norris joke so i was laughing. really no need to flip out. i didn't mean i was laughing at Porch's post. i usually agree with Porch on a lot of issues and i respect his opinion. it was just that i was laughing when i posted this response because of the way i described Nog not gassing. before you start making personal attacks on me, which you base on NOTHING, just remember that i am one of the most respected members here for a reason and that i return that respect to pretty much every member here.
haggiswashere
9/13/08 10:39:51PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by haggiswashere


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Porch28

They will both gas by the third or fifth and it will be a UD





Nog doesn't gas, he just gets beat to the point where he looks a little sloppy. be aware that Nog has went the distance many, many times and he is always a threat no matter how far into the fight you are.



wow you seem like the type of guy who gets beat up all the time so he trys to make people seem stupid online. it was his opinion. people like you are the reason most members don't post. you can have your opinion but you don't need to ridicule the guy. ridiculous.



i was laughing at the ridiculousness of my analogy...it reminded me of a chuck norris joke so i was laughing. really no need to flip out. i didn't mean i was laughing at Porch's post. i usually agree with Porch on a lot of issues and i respect his opinion. it was just that i was laughing when i posted this response because of the way i described Nog not gassing. before you start making personal attacks on me, which you base on NOTHING, just remember that i am one of the most respected members here for a reason and that i return that respect to pretty much every member here.



you know i apologize then. you know the type of person i meant though. i feel like i should have stood up for him but i should not have made the personal remark about you getting beat up. i apologize. i just get tired of people who laugh at other kids remark. so im sorry. i hope you know where i come from
jiujitsufreak74
9/13/08 10:42:02PM

Posted by haggiswashere
you know i apologize then. you know the type of person i meant though. i feel like i should have stood up for him but i should not have made the personal remark about you getting beat up. i apologize. i just get tired of people who laugh at other kids remark. so im sorry. i hope you know where i come from



i understand and i respect the fact you would stand up for people on here
haggiswashere
9/13/08 11:35:51PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by haggiswashere
you know i apologize then. you know the type of person i meant though. i feel like i should have stood up for him but i should not have made the personal remark about you getting beat up. i apologize. i just get tired of people who laugh at other kids remark. so im sorry. i hope you know where i come from



i understand and i respect the fact you would stand up for people on here



thanks buddy
tomp6581
10/27/08 4:21:24PM

Posted by Diamondback2

This is one hell of an interesting fight. Without rewatching recent fights (which is big for me) i think Mir and Nog have equal MMA JJ, just diffrent types.

Mir's offensive JJ is much better. Point in case look at Mir's 7 professional subs.

Triangle at 2:05 in Rd 1

Armbar at 1:05 in Rd 1

Shoulder Lock at :46 in Rd 1

Toe Hold at :46 in Rd 1

Technical Submission at :50 in Rd 1

Kimura at 1:17 in Rd 1

Kneebar at 1:30 in Rd 1

Notice a pattern.....?

I dont feel like listing all 19 of Nog's sub's but he only submits opponents in the 1st round 58% (rounded up) of the time.

Mir has 100% of his sub's in Rd 1.

I think Mir COULD submit Nog from his back in RD 1 or 2. Or both thier JJ is so damn good it'll look like Werdum/Gonzaga on the ground. I think Nog's lay back and wait for RD 3+ to get real active might work against him.

But i can't wait for this fight and IMO isn't any less important with Randy coming back.





If your looking at past records....I think you need to look at the level of compettiton Nog has faced compered to Mir.
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