Forrest Griffins title defense really has to be.................................

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POLL: Forrest's next fight should be
Lyoto Machida 65% (44)
Chuck Liddell 24% (16)
Rampage 12% (8)
Wandy 0% (0)
MoJoy
7/7/08 1:16:16AM
Lyoto Machida. Anything else would be an out and out crime.

Lets look at the top LHW's.

Rampage should definetely get a rematch, but not right away. At the same time he does not need a lot of fights to get one either. This is the perfect oppurtunity to have Wandy Rampage go at it for a 3rd time. If Rampage wins that, he gets immediate title shot against whoever it comes to fruition of being. Their is a lot of history with these guys. You have the allegations of juicing by Rampages camp. You have the refs being dirty and standing them up when Rampage was in top position and working diligently and beating Wandy. You have the fact that Wandy is back in great standing after an incredible fight with Chuck and a butt kicking clinic against Jardine. You have the fruits of Rampage now being under top shelf guidance and being in the prime of his career and being the best Rampage. These guys fight and it says a lot of positive things for whoever is the winner.

Chuck Liddell. If you lose a title match, especially if you have a pedigree like this guy, you dont need to wait much for a rematch. But the difference here is Chuck has lost twice recently, and lost back to back. That is a whole nother kind of story. Yeah he had a great performance against Wandy, but when was the last time Chuck, who has a forte of being a puncher, actually knocked somebody out. The very earliest the iceman should get a title shot is after he fights Rashad, and after Forrest fights again.

Wanderlei Silva. No way. Pride is Pride. A lot of things where different there. We all know. This guy is one of the best fighters pound for pound. There is no question about that. But a loss to Chuck Liddell, and a win over Keith Jardine cannot put you into a title shot, not in this crowded division.

Keith Jardine. Well he beat Forrest, and it was a earned victory. But hes gotten outclassed by Houston and Wndy recently. With the way he's lost, hes at least 3 straight victories away, and they have to include some of the guys mentioned already. I aint betting on that.


Rashad Evans. Yes he has a spotless record. Their is no taking that for granted. Personally I think he should have won against Tito. I am amazed at the talk of Tito getting a draw and really should have won. Look what happened when Rashad slammed Tito late in round 3. Hes was gonna take him down a lot earlier in the fight, if Tito does not grab that fence hes dealing with Rashad going for a mount position. And this was happening a bunch of times. Rashad would have won that fight handily. Regardless, he had a nice showing against Tito. Won, but had a bad showing against Bisbing. Its obvious he has a few more fights against top fighter before he can be getting a title shot. Even if he beats Chuck, he would need at least 1 more top win.

Theres a lot more great fighters in this division. And up and comers to add. Shogun,Thiago Silva,Soko etc....

But it has to be Lyoto. He had already a top notch resume against top shelf fighters before he got into the ufc. Since he got in he has shown a mastery of the division. And the way he anniliated Soko and Tito was more than clear of how great he already is, and how much better he is rising too. Put it this way, you already know hes probably favored if hes fighting for the title. Why is that. Cause people know how good he is. He already has proved he can beat the best of the best. Back to back wins over two top 10 LHW reinforces that. Add to that a spotless record and guy who most people who really really know MMA know is already top 10 pound for pound in the world. Their is no one right now, who deserves it more than Lyoto.
hippysmacker
7/7/08 1:29:03AM
Machidas best victory since coming tot he YFc has been against a not ranked in the top 10 anywhere I saw Tito, so I disagree that he deserves a title shot yet. I would like to see him beat one of the other guys ranked in the top 5 before he gets a shot.
RandyCouture
7/7/08 1:31:50AM
Even forrest said he doesnt want to fight machida i doubt the ufc will risk having there poster boy being forrest losing to this kung fu guy who is boring to the general public.
cmill21
7/7/08 1:32:31AM
It will be Chuck if he beats Rashad.
Mayhem13
7/7/08 1:35:29AM
the LHW division is really a mess right now..with contenders

Wanderlei and Chuck both are coming off of wins..but lost atleast twice each before the win...

Jardine was getting close...but just lost..

Sokoudjou needs more wins

Machida is probably the most deserving only beacause he hasnt lost and has some big names on his win list (although not all were in UFC)

Shogun self inflicted his self outof the picture by fighting injured

Thiago Silva needs to face someone good...

Matt Hammill could move a step closer if he beats Franklin...but still too far down the line..

if Rashad beats Chuck he could get the shot..

i dont know..Machida gets my vote I guess

Khaos
7/7/08 2:41:14AM
Rematch with Page

if not then unfortnately(IMO) Lyoto Machida
sammyd1213
7/7/08 2:49:42AM
If Evans beats Liddell you have to give him a shot. As much as I cant stand the guy, he will have earned it.
pdanke
7/7/08 2:54:03AM
Don't expect the UFC to even try to sell a fight with Machida until he gets a solid stoppage (or at least flashy/definitive) victory.....

I expect Griffin will fight the winner of Liddell/Evans, although if Evans wins by some freak occurrence that will be a travesty, given the talent waiting in the wings.

The UFC can't wait to try and promote Liddell/Griffin.... and you all know you want to see that fight anyways....
sammyd1213
7/7/08 3:17:19AM
If Liddell beat Evans(which he should) Lyoto is the only sensible option.
Purge
7/7/08 9:24:48AM
First trash Machida, because I think Forrest has the perfect style to do it, then rematch Rampage, im not making a bet on the 2nd fight.
MoJoy
7/7/08 9:47:49AM

Posted by hippysmacker

Machidas best victory since coming tot he YFc has been against a not ranked in the top 10 anywhere I saw Tito, so I disagree that he deserves a title shot yet. I would like to see him beat one of the other guys ranked in the top 5 before he gets a shot.



Are you serious. He already has beaten top compition prior to getting into the ufc, and since then has only gotten to fighting so good everyone and their momma is scared too fight him. On what planet is Tito and Rashad not high ranking lhw's. Are they top 5 no. But top 10 yes, and he 100% did everything he wanted to against them. I dont see how anyone can justify not having fight right away for the title.
lance70301
7/7/08 10:13:02AM

I have to agree Machidas lacks that flash. He lacks the personality to really sell any fight. As you all know money makes the world go around, and the UFC wants champs that put money, big money, in their pockets. I do believe Machida would be the next in line, be he needs to start talking some smack and be a little more aggressive in the octagon. His unique style will give anyone fits. This is my opinion, thanx.
Thunderfighting
7/7/08 11:24:07AM
wow, you actually make alot of sense. Good job. I do think that Machida deservies a shot right now. And I also think that the winner of Chuck and Rashad should fight rampage and the winner gets a title shot. That way rampage gets some time to work and come back from his first loss as a champion. I think that another Chuck v.s. Rampage would be great, because nobody will get knocked out this time. Or if it comes out to be Rashad v.s. rampage we will have a young undefeated star on the rise v.s. the former champ. It doesnt get much better than that.
mkiv9secsupra
7/7/08 11:33:25AM

Posted by MoJoy


Posted by hippysmacker

Machidas best victory since coming tot he YFc has been against a not ranked in the top 10 anywhere I saw Tito, so I disagree that he deserves a title shot yet. I would like to see him beat one of the other guys ranked in the top 5 before he gets a shot.



On what planet is Tito and Rashad not high ranking lhw's. Are they top 5 no. But top 10 yes, and he 100% did everything he wanted to against them. I dont see how anyone can justify not having fight right away for the title.



Earth.....

He beat BJ Penn, a natural LW, and Rich Franklin, a natural MW. You cant use those victories as reasoning to why he deserves a title shot at LHW. You could argue Tito was ranked 10th or 9th but nothing more and beating someone on the bottome of the top 10 list doesnt warrant a title shot. I would love to see Forrest dismantle Machida but Tito is not the stepping stone to getting a shot.

But there is no clear cut victor to who is the number one contender. Liddell and Rashad wont be able to fight for the title in the next 4-5 months, rampage wont for a while, Soko and Jardine dont get one at all now. And wanderlei only has one win. It seems they could market Wanderlei vs Forrest as Wanderlei beat Jardine who knocked out Forrest maybe. But imo he needs one more fight. Machida is the only one to be on a streak of wins that include Soko and Tito so he will probly be the one to get the shot.
king_katool
7/7/08 12:28:24PM
now that forrest has won i can see liddel getting it if he beats rashad but IMHO every contender needs to fight right now this is what i want to see in the LHW division in the next couple months

SEPT.
Liddel/evans winner gets title shot or winner of wandy/machida

OCT.
wandy/machida winner gets title shot or winner of liddle/evans
thiago/soko winner fights loser of any other of these fights

NOV. or DEC.
rampage/shogun winner fights loser of the next title shot

and you could probly give jardine to hammil/franklin winnner or silva/irvine winner

i think this would help make sense of the divsion

what do you guys think??
MoJoy
7/7/08 12:41:10PM
I wouldnt say anything if Machida had to fight another fight, and someone was in line who more deserved a title shot. But there is no one. The closest anyone else besides Machida, is to a title shot is Chuck. And even Chuck if he beats Rashad would be a horrible choice. Had Chuck only lost to Rampage I would not be saying this. But he lost TWICE in a row. And then decisioned Wandy. No way in hell should he get a shot before Lyoto. That would be totally unfair.

I am so sick of people dissing Machida. It is not his job to win over stubborn fans, its his job to win. He always does that. First of all against Tito, had the first round gone a minute or so longer, he tko's him right there. Do you guys not remember that fight? Are you serious? Look at his fights since he got in the ufc. I have NEVER SEEN him run from anybody, NOT AT ALL. Chuck Liddell made a career out of being a counter puncher. This guy is much more active than Chuck. First of all, against Soko, a freakin beast. He went right at him and destoyed him. Where was the running. What the hell fight are people watching? Against Tito, he never run. He had great movement, avoided hits, would constantly feint with punches and then kick him, then feint with kicks and then punch him. He outclinched him. The man has the best defense in mma. Thats not running thats fighting smart. And this is not ufc of 12 years ago. This is a new ufc, with better fighters. More and more fights will be going to deciion. you beter accept that. Its not just Machida, every organization, every weight class, its simple logic. The only places where fights dont go the distance is when young stars are starting out fighting opponents they are way better than. Once they start getting to a better compitition you get more decisions. The only guy bucking this trend is Anderson Silva. Sean Sherk,Tito Ortiz,Big Nog etc.. have been or are champs who are way more boring and way more prone to decision. They never got dissed like this. Their is no need for Machida to do dumb ass trash talk, that is retarded. Is that what it really takes to get you pumped up for a fight? Their is no need for him to fight like an idiot. Their is only a need for the viewing audience to be smarter.
CantAndleDaRiddum
7/7/08 12:44:37PM
please let lyoto get his shot
MoJoy
7/7/08 12:49:21PM
By the way I noticed a comment here and there saying Forrest would dismantle Lyoto. Ha Hal. I love Forrest Griffin, how can you not root for this guy. But Machida would expose him. Why do you think he has gone on record saying, with a smile he does not want anything to do with him. Those who think Forrest would win, can you please tell me where he has an advantage in this fight. Everywhere the fight goes, I see Machida with the advantage. And Rich Franklin is a guy who walks around over 200 lbs. He is the same size as Machida. Dont give me this "hes a middleweight nonsense". Rich prolly walks around heavier than Machida. Cutting weight and real size are different things. That was very early in Machida's career, this man is a lot better now. And that was when Rich was undeafeated, even then, Machida busted him up from the opening minutes till the ref stopped it. And Stephen Bonner is a certiffialbe top notch LHW. Once again, early in Machida's carerr, go see the fight. He made Bonner look like a guy off the street. Lyoto will become champion, I guarantee it, its only a matter of how soon. Thisperson is the class of the division. All the other fighters know that.
mkiv9secsupra
7/7/08 12:59:44PM

Posted by MoJoy
Those who think Forrest would win, can you please tell me where he has an advantage in this fight.



tell me what type of fighter would always be a hard fight for Lyotos Stick and run technique? Lengthy strikers.....Forrest - 6'3'' is a tall striker who can stay outside of Lyotos range while still scoring points with leg kicks and jabs. Dont give me some bull**** about how Lyoto is such a skilled striker. You havent seen him even fight a top quality striker yet so how in the world do you know he can beat a top quality striker? Stylisticly a lengthy striker should beat Lyotos style. Its that simple.
cowcatcher
7/7/08 1:03:34PM
well mojoy has launched a pretty good case for machida, and i agree with a lot of it. machida deserves the shot as much as anyone right now, lets face it winning streaks get you title shots, just ask patrick "i was 0-4" cote, but im thinking machida will not be next in line. if rampage is healthy, it will probably be him, and if not im guessing it will be chuck(if he beats rashad that is). the fight with rampage was so close that i could live with them getting in there against each other right away, i thought they had one hell of a fight on saturday. chuck was a coach on season 1 of TUF, forrest was the winner of the show. chuck is the former, and very popular, limelight dwelling champ, forrest is a hard working joe everybody that finds himself the new champion......lets face it this apollo vs rocky and id love to see this before the year is out.

if machida does fight forrest i think forrest has a top game that would give machida fits, and his motor would play a big part in this fight because hes one of the few that could chase after machida after machida throws his combos and disengages for the duration of the fight.

forrest isnt the flashiest or biggest puncher or best ground fighter, but the guy is as good of an example of an all around mixed martial artist that is out there right now and will give anyone trouble.
MoJoy
7/7/08 1:07:06PM
Oh my God. You shot your credibility. Your telling me Rich Franklin and Sokoudjou are not top flight strikers. Are you serious. They did not touch Machida at all. Not only do I consider your post an out and out untruthful statement. It shows an incredible disprespect to the guys I mentioned that you would say they are not good strikers.


I am reffering to Mikey.
MoJoy
7/7/08 1:12:42PM
By the way, remember for likable Forrest to get points against Machida, he has to be able to hit him. So far no one has been able to do that. Especially with Forrest not being a hard hitter, he will need to do combinations against Machida which is near impossible. If they fought, I think Machida would get a DOMINANT decision victory or early submission. He was seconds away from being the only guy in history to tko Tito in the first round. He outstriked Soko and made him look like someone who has not been fighting.
fonduktoe
7/7/08 3:26:58PM
the ufc isn't going to give machida a title shot anytime soon
machida has to stop having the snoozefest "fights" that he has if he wants a shot at the belt
nobody wants the champ of the most talent deep division of the ufc to be a guy that makes history professors seem exciting
this is a spectator sport so until machida puts actual fighting into his fight style than keep him out of the octagon
MoJoy
7/7/08 3:37:59PM
I wish I could give you negative props. Ortiz Machida was one of the most exciting intelligent fights I have ever seen.
fonduktoe
7/7/08 4:08:33PM

Posted by MoJoy

I wish I could give you negative props. Ortiz Machida was one of the most exciting intelligent fights I have ever seen.


ortiz machida was a bore like all of machidas other fights
machida should stick to karate tournaments if he wants to score points with his punches instead of trying to knock his opponent out
fade2black2004
7/7/08 5:45:25PM

Posted by MoJoy


Posted by hippysmacker

Machidas best victory since coming tot he YFc has been against a not ranked in the top 10 anywhere I saw Tito, so I disagree that he deserves a title shot yet. I would like to see him beat one of the other guys ranked in the top 5 before he gets a shot.



Are you serious. He already has beaten top compition prior to getting into the ufc, and since then has only gotten to fighting so good everyone and their momma is scared too fight him. On what planet is Tito and Rashad not high ranking lhw's. Are they top 5 no. But top 10 yes, and he 100% did everything he wanted to against them. I dont see how anyone can justify not having fight right away for the title.



so forget Pride but lets not forget all of Machidas past victories in other orgs, thats total BS he doesnt deserve a shot till he proves himself in UFC against a top tier guy
MoJoy
7/7/08 6:46:54PM
Dude do you honestly think you are telling the truth. All those other fights count. Its not about the organization its about the compitition. And even if you dont take those fights into account, your saying he has to prove himself against a top tier guy. Honestly, answer me this, do you really watch ufc's. Do you really order the ppv's, maybe watch them a nightspot or at a friends house, cause it sounds like you have not seen a ufc for years. Nak,Ortiz, and Soko are all top tier guys. The last two, Ortiz and Soko are slam dunk top 15 prolly top 10 lhws in the entire world. Both of those fights in the ufc, Machida dominated them like I have not seen a top fighter dominate other top fighters outside of only GSP and Anderson the last few years in mma. People dont always have to agree but your making a slandering statement against both Machida and the guys he fights. Its insulting and its wrong. Whereas what I say, it is a fact. You will find no one that will say Machida has not dominated since he came to the ufc. But you will? So are you telling us that Nak,Ortiz, and Soko are not a level fighters? Cause that is what your implying.
fade2black2004
7/7/08 6:52:49PM

Posted by MoJoy

Dude do you honestly think you are telling the truth. All those other fights count. Its not about the organization its about the compitition. And even if you dont take those fights into account, your saying he has to prove himself against a top tier guy. Honestly, answer me this, do you really watch ufc's. Do you really order the ppv's, maybe watch them a nightspot or at a friends house, cause it sounds like you have not seen a ufc for years. Nak,Ortiz, and Soko are all top tier guys. The last two, Ortiz and Soko are slam dunk top 15 prolly top 10 lhws in the entire world. Both of those fights in the ufc, Machida dominated them like I have not seen a top fighter dominate other top fighters outside of only GSP and Anderson the last few years in mma. People dont always have to agree but your making a slandering statement against both Machida and the guys he fights. Its insulting and its wrong. Whereas what I say, it is a fact. You will find no one that will say Machida has not dominated since he came to the ufc. But you will? So are you telling us that Nak,Ortiz, and Soko are not a level fighters? Cause that is what your implying.



your saying forget other organizations fine we will do that

Soko is not top level in UFC
Ortiz was coming off of a loss and a draw and was not even top 10 in the ufc at the time
Naka once again was not a top level ufc fighter


the biggest fight h has had was against tito and he didnt even finish that fight, he is not deserving of a title shot yet
MoJoy
7/7/08 7:10:07PM
Soko is top level. Anybody who knows MMA knows that. Do yourself a favor look at rankings on sites and lhw fighters. Most have Soko in the 7-10 range, and Tito right at 10 or outside of 10. And you dont understand MMA at all if you think you have to finish someone to dominate them. Did you ever see Cotoure Sylvia. That was a 5 round fight. And it was a domination by Cotoure. And Machida utterly dominated Tito, like few have done. Had the first round gone seconds longers its over right there. And he destroyed Rich Franklin and Stephen Bonner, both long tenured ufc fighters. So now you resort to saying Tito and Soko are not top fighters. What your doing is called reaching. You got nothing and your now slandering top fighters just to prove a wrong point of Machida not deserving a title shot. Just cause Machida destroys them does not make them not top fighters, it just shows how great Machida is. Your a hater not a realist.
fade2black2004
7/7/08 8:06:29PM
you yourself said not to count pride because it was different, did you not?

well if you take away pride form the equation then Soko and Nak arent shit in the UFC

I am not slandering anybody I am going by your regulations of pride and other orgs dont count,

Tito has not been top ten in my eyes in a long time, he BARLEY beat Griffin, he losses to Liddell, he beats Ken twice (ken WAS a great fighter but not anymore so these wins dont mean shit) and then he goes to a DRAW with Rashad, He was not top ten in my eyes

And i hate the whole "if the round would of went any longer ortiz would of been out"
IF dont mean shit, IF ortiz would of stuck with the triangle choke Lyoto would of tapped but no one talks about the badass sub attempts by Ortiz (and i hate Ortiz so dont call me his nuthugger)

If you only use UFC fights as criteria then Machida in no way deserves a title shot, Thiago Silva is undefeated in the ufc right now does that mean he deserve the next title shot??
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