Forrest Griffin vs. Rashad Evans

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POLL: Forrest Griffin vs. Rashad Evans
Griffin by ko/tko 7% (4)
Griffin by sub 18% (11)
Griffin by decision 48% (29)
Rashad by ko/tko 18% (11)
Rashad by sub 0% (0)
Rashad by decision 10% (6)
nickcuc547
9/7/08 4:40:10PM
who takes it and how?

I like forrest by decision, he doesn't have stopping power but he has beaten better strikers (shogun, rampage) and better wrestlers (rampage) i think he beats him similar to rampage, stick and move and shows a lot of heart.
mkiv9secsupra
9/7/08 5:34:42PM
i definitely dont think Rashad will land a huge punch like that on Griffin but Rashad will be able to take Griffin down without much trouble. I think Griffin UD
dannyfrank
9/7/08 5:43:02PM
he wont catch forest like he did chuck. forest actually keeps his hands up
The_Ho_Bag
9/7/08 6:18:59PM

Posted by dannyfrank

he wont catch forest like he did chuck. forest actually keeps his hands up


very true even though im a huge chuck fan,
gsquat
9/7/08 6:23:22PM
K guys. I've done quite a bit of gloating, and it felt great. You should try it if you get the opportunity. But I think I'm about done with it. You can be bitter and hold a grudge about it if you want, but you shouldn't. Were you expecting anything less from me? So, my thoughts on this fight...

Forrest and Bonnar... Very similar fighters. Thats why their fights were so good to watch. Both like to stand and swing, but are also well versed on the ground. Bonnar actually has a little better jujitsu than Forrest.

Rashad man-handeled Bonnar for three rounds. Rashad won't be afraid to clinch with Forrest or take it to the ground. However, Rashad has better strikes than Forrest. So the only way I see Forrest winning is via submission. Expect to see Rashad win a very unanimous decision, with lots of ground and pound.
PrinceofTranceGlobal
9/7/08 6:49:31PM
Forrest has gotten a lot better. As has Rashad, but Forrest is more crafty. This could go either way, but I think Forrest takes a decision.
copcopps
9/7/08 6:54:33PM
Rashad by Bro-Copping*

*When a Black man head kicks a man out

Keith Jardine KOed Forrest and he trains with Rashad also and he KOed Forrest with little trouble.
madchaodizzys
9/7/08 8:36:31PM
Sugar Rashad got lucky, period. I watched him back up non-stop for a round and a half, then when Chuck lets a few loose, Rashad came over the top and got lucky with one that connected. He is a lousy fighter to watch, and I sincerely hope his style of fighting dosen't become emulated by others. I don't think he can take too much punishment, or why else would he constantly move away from his opponents.
DevonFoxy
9/7/08 9:01:21PM

Posted by madchaodizzys

Sugar Rashad got lucky, period. I watched him back up non-stop for a round and a half, then when Chuck lets a few loose, Rashad came over the top and got lucky with one that connected. He is a lousy fighter to watch, and I sincerely hope his style of fighting dosen't become emulated by others. I don't think he can take too much punishment, or why else would he constantly move away from his opponents.



I don't think he got lucky personally.(though I think in a re-match Liddell would win) Thats the only way Rashad was going to win. He couldn't take him down so the game plan was amazing.

Liddell got frustrated waiting for Rashad to attack so he became over aggresive and Rashad got a monster haymaker in when Liddell commited. Amazing really but from that camp can't say I'm not surprised.

Griffin has better strikes but Rashad clearly has better power. I really think Forrest fighting Jardine will have little impact on this fight because that was a way different fighter I know it sounds cliche but its very true.

I'll take Griffin by UD by striking and not gassing which I think Rashad might have a problem either way I see this fight going 5 rds. unless Forrest gets a submission.
dannyfrank
9/7/08 9:05:24PM

Posted by gsquat

K guys. I've done quite a bit of gloating, and it felt great. You should try it if you get the opportunity. But I think I'm about done with it. You can be bitter and hold a grudge about it if you want, but you shouldn't. Were you expecting anything less from me? So, my thoughts on this fight...

Forrest and Bonnar... Very similar fighters. Thats why their fights were so good to watch. Both like to stand and swing, but are also well versed on the ground. Bonnar actually has a little better jujitsu than Forrest.

Rashad man-handeled Bonnar for three rounds. Rashad won't be afraid to clinch with Forrest or take it to the ground. However, Rashad has better strikes than Forrest. So the only way I see Forrest winning is via submission. Expect to see Rashad win a very unanimous decision, with lots of ground and pound.



you make a good point, but i think that forrest has gotten much better than stephen bonnar. forest can also take one hell of a beating, so i doubt he's gonna get KOed or TKOed. it'll be close if it goes to decision. this is kind of hard for anyone to say what will happen because i know for a fact that the forest fans wont give rashad enough credit, and the rashad fans wont give forest enough credit. we'll just have to see how this one unfolds
casey64
9/7/08 9:41:48PM
Rashad ground and pound.
masodd
9/7/08 9:56:52PM
Forrest by submission imo. probably a rear naked choke or triangle. Rashad don't have a chance i think. Forrest is gettin better and rashad don't seem to get any better. I mean he did ko chuck but i dont think thats sayin much anymore. Forrest will win easily. He is better in all aspects except for strength i even think he's better at wrestling just an opinion tho
backalley101
9/7/08 11:54:55PM
All I have to say is Chuck keep them hands up
Drudinh
9/8/08 4:22:53AM

Posted by dannyfrank


Posted by gsquat

K guys. I've done quite a bit of gloating, and it felt great. You should try it if you get the opportunity. But I think I'm about done with it. You can be bitter and hold a grudge about it if you want, but you shouldn't. Were you expecting anything less from me? So, my thoughts on this fight...

Forrest and Bonnar... Very similar fighters. Thats why their fights were so good to watch. Both like to stand and swing, but are also well versed on the ground. Bonnar actually has a little better jujitsu than Forrest.

Rashad man-handeled Bonnar for three rounds. Rashad won't be afraid to clinch with Forrest or take it to the ground. However, Rashad has better strikes than Forrest. So the only way I see Forrest winning is via submission. Expect to see Rashad win a very unanimous decision, with lots of ground and pound.



you make a good point, but i think that forrest has gotten much better than stephen bonnar. forest can also take one hell of a beating, so i doubt he's gonna get KOed or TKOed. it'll be close if it goes to decision. this is kind of hard for anyone to say what will happen because i know for a fact that the forest fans wont give rashad enough credit, and the rashad fans wont give forest enough credit. we'll just have to see how this one unfolds



Evans will gas out and won't be able to swing. He's done it before and It'll probably happen again. I think it'll go to the fourth and an exhausted Rashad will get put to sleep by a dominating Griffin
Taylor8766
9/8/08 10:03:05AM
Forrest will use his reach and pick apart Rashad and if it goes to the ground Forrest will submit him.
coldchillin
9/9/08 5:22:04PM
Evans will take down Griffin at ease and win a very boring decision.

This one is going to be a snoozer.
breakdown5
9/9/08 6:41:09PM
Forrest will keep his hands up and use his reach to keep Rashad at bay until Rashad eventually gasses. Rashad throws a lot of power in his punches and he will wear himself out. Once he gasses, Forrest will punish him with leg kicks. If he takes Forrest down, Forrest has the skills to tap him out. But I think coming off this win over Chuck, Rashad will want to come out and bang with Forrest and prove that the KO wasn't a fluke.

In the end, I really think that Forrest will pound on Rashad for the remainder of the fight after he gasses, but will not finish. He will take the UD.
mkiv9secsupra
9/9/08 7:13:53PM
I really dont think Rashad can go 5 rounds and still have energy to finish Forrest. He was completely exhausted against Tito in the 3rd round so in a five round fight i dont think he will be able to last. And after 3 rounds of Forrest kicking his legs i dont think Rashad will still be able to shoot for takedowns. Rashad will shoot for a sloppy single leg and get himself taken down and mounted and finished by TKO.
mrkennedy
9/9/08 7:16:01PM
Griffin UD
gsquat
9/10/08 11:46:02AM
Really, there is nothing to suggest that Forrest would beat Rashad. Rashad has gone undefeated in fighting guys like Forrest. Rashad has shown better standup, clinch, and wrestling than Forrest. Rashad has avoided better jujitsu in Stephan Bonnar. Opponents' height and reach is obviously not a problem whatsoever for Rashad. Forrest is another guy who Jardine/Jackson has already defeated. Most who pick Forrest are moreso hoping that he wins as opposed to thinking it. Sorry to tell you, but that doesn't make it more likely.
JasonSmolinski
9/10/08 1:04:25PM
As much as I like Griffin as a personality and fighter, I think that unless he comes up with a unique gameplan to counter Rashad, he might be in trouble.

Good fighters lose when someone (intentionally or not) counters their specific style; we've seen it recently in fights like Liddell/Jardine, Machida/Ortiz, Penn/Sherk. Taking a fighter out of his comfort zone and making him fight your fight is a much more effective tactic than learning how to deal with a certain style.

In other words, if you know you're going to fight a powerful ground fighter, most people would opt to work on their ground skills. This prepares you to deal with their specialty, but also dooms you into fighting their fight, which ultimately still leaves you at a disadvantage.

So what smarter fighters will do is remove that aspect entirely. Look at last week's Hendo/Palhares fight. Henderson has a terrible record facing BJJ specialists, which probably means he wasn't going to turn into an expert in Jui-Jitsu overnight. Instead, he worked on his takedown defense, so he wouldn't have to fight Palhares's fight. Granted, he went down a couple times, but the majority of the fight was spent in Hendo's world. By the end of the second round, Palhares was too tired to shoot effectively, and looked defeated mentally. As Hendo showed, although risky, it can be smarter to not train to fight against another's strength, but rather to fight a different battle entirely.

That all being said, as stated before, Rashad has the experience and tools necessary to deal with a Griffin-esque fighter. If Griffin is to win, he will have to find Rashad's comfort zone, and take him out of it. Unfortunately, Rashad seems to actually have some knockout power on his feet, and we know he can be a small (albeit a tad boring) wrestler.

So my adivce to Griffin would be to do something unexpected... ruthless non-stop aggression, right in Rashad's face, and don't let up or give him time to think. That, or maybe a spinning backfist or something. Whatever.
mkiv9secsupra
9/10/08 1:24:48PM

Posted by JasonSmolinski

As much as I like Griffin as a personality and fighter, I think that unless he comes up with a unique gameplan to counter Rashad, he might be in trouble.

Good fighters lose when someone (intentionally or not) counters their specific style; we've seen it recently in fights like Liddell/Jardine, Machida/Ortiz, Penn/Sherk. Taking a fighter out of his comfort zone and making him fight your fight is a much more effective tactic than learning how to deal with a certain style.

In other words, if you know you're going to fight a powerful ground fighter, most people would opt to work on their ground skills. This prepares you to deal with their specialty, but also dooms you into fighting their fight, which ultimately still leaves you at a disadvantage.

So what smarter fighters will do is remove that aspect entirely. Look at last week's Hendo/Palhares fight. Henderson has a terrible record facing BJJ specialists, which probably means he wasn't going to turn into an expert in Jui-Jitsu overnight. Instead, he worked on his takedown defense, so he wouldn't have to fight Palhares's fight. Granted, he went down a couple times, but the majority of the fight was spent in Hendo's world. By the end of the second round, Palhares was too tired to shoot effectively, and looked defeated mentally. As Hendo showed, although risky, it can be smarter to not train to fight against another's strength, but rather to fight a different battle entirely.

That all being said, as stated before, Rashad has the experience and tools necessary to deal with a Griffin-esque fighter. If Griffin is to win, he will have to find Rashad's comfort zone, and take him out of it. Unfortunately, Rashad seems to actually have some knockout power on his feet, and we know he can be a small (albeit a tad boring) wrestler.

So my adivce to Griffin would be to do something unexpected... ruthless non-stop aggression, right in Rashad's face, and don't let up or give him time to think. That, or maybe a spinning backfist or something. Whatever.



the problem with training for Forrest is Forrest is an extremely versatile fighter and has shown very small holes in his game and not much more other than a chin that could possibly be tougher. Also his comfort zone is wherever you take the fight. He is comfortable on his back, in guard/mount, standing and clinching and is adept at them all.

the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.
JasonSmolinski
9/10/08 1:37:17PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.



Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.
mkiv9secsupra
9/10/08 2:02:29PM

Posted by JasonSmolinski


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.



Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.



Hell, Travis Lutter has brutally knocked out a guy with an overhand right, but in no way does that mean he is a heavy hitter.....One or two KO 's doesnt mean he is a badass striker otherwise Chuck would be known as a submission expert since he has submitted guys....


EDIT: im not arguing the fact he can KO people but he is not the Wanderlei or Randleman-esque fighter swinging with KO power in every shot. Rashad waited for the opportunity to deliver a haymaker and landed perfectly and got the KO(which 95% of MMA fighters can do if strategy and opportunity allow them)
JasonSmolinski
9/10/08 2:51:39PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by JasonSmolinski


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.



Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.



Hell, Travis Lutter has brutally knocked out a guy with an overhand right, but in no way does that mean he is a heavy hitter.....One or two KO 's doesnt mean he is a badass striker otherwise Chuck would be known as a submission expert since he has submitted guys....


EDIT: im not arguing the fact he can KO people but he is not the Wanderlei or Randleman-esque fighter swinging with KO power in every shot. Rashad waited for the opportunity to deliver a haymaker and landed perfectly and got the KO(which 95% of MMA fighters can do if strategy and opportunity allow them)



Fair enough, but you were intially comparing Rashad to Jardine in terms of KO power. After seeing Rashad's hits on Salmon, Chuck, Lambert, I feel it's safe to say he has the knockout power to drop Forrest too, if he catches him cleanly. Granted, any given MMA fighter can score a KO if the timing is perfect, but I think it's going beyond simply "good timing" for Rashad at this point. He can hit hard.
fullerene
9/10/08 3:36:19PM
Similar to the Liddell fight I think Forrest--with his superior size, reach and boxing technique--is the smart choice, but I have a feeling that Evans is going to win on his way to becoming a great fighter.

I know people like to apply revisionist history to fights after they are done, but Evans matched up much worse against Liddell.
Bowen50
9/10/08 3:52:33PM
i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.
gsquat
9/10/08 4:06:33PM

Posted by Bowen50

i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.


Yeah, because the reach advantage of virtually evryone else he fought was a real problem for him. And its not like Forrest has been taken down (Ortiz) or G&P'd (Jardine). If you think Forrest is going to win, you're searching for reasons (or just thinking with your hopes).
jiujitsufreak74
9/10/08 4:21:53PM

Posted by gsquat


Posted by Bowen50

i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.


Yeah, because the reach advantage of virtually evryone else he fought was a real problem for him. And its not like Forrest has been taken down (Ortiz) or G&P'd (Jardine). If you think Forrest is going to win, you're searching for reasons (or just thinking with your hopes).



well Forrest was GnPed by Jardine because he got hit with a well placed punch so that really isn't a good example for the argument you are proposing. it is however a good example of how Rashad can catch Forrest with a well placed punch...although Rampage landed some brutal hooks that didn't seem to face Forrest too badly. Forrest has also gained a lot of confidence since the Tito fight and as he showed in the 2nd and 3rd rounds he had the tools to win that fight. i am personally going to go with Forrest because he has shown that he can win in multiple ways against top 10 opponents where as Rashad has just shown that he has one punch power, but not much else. i am not saying Rashad doesn't have any other skills, it is just that i haven't had the opportunity to see him use them against top competition.
mkiv9secsupra
9/10/08 4:50:09PM
Another point:

Forrest beat the #1 LHW in the world in Maurico Rua then beat the #1 LHW in the world in Quinton Jackson back to back. Both of which have been known for their devastating strikes and explosiveness yet Forrest grinded them down for the W. Judging by Forrest's last 2 fights there is nothing to indicate that Rashads explosiveness or striking are going to be enough to get him the W in this one.

Like i said, Forrest's biggest weakness is his chin and if Shogun and Jackson(both of which have a better striking and grappling pedigree than Rashad) couldnt capitalize on that then i am inclined to believe that Rashad is not going to KO Forrest either.
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