How much force for a punch to send 400 lbs bag flying into the air ?

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Lolok
3/23/12 6:06:29AM
Are there any boxer that have enough power to make a heavy bag, weighing 400lb or more, fly over long distances? I think MMA fighters like Rampage and Brock Lesnar and HW boxers like Foreman and Tyson could make a 400 pound bag flying into ceiling and thump it, much like the kick that have been done by Bruce Lee on a 300lb bag. But I'm sceptical about Bruce Lee feats because there are only anecdotal evidences from his friends. This is from Bob Wall interview,

'Bob Wall: And so I went as a joke, made him a 300 pound bag. I don’t think there’s a bag bigger than that. And so I stuffed it and called Bruce up in Bel Air and he had a Porshe, and I said “Hey Bruce, why don’t you come on down, I made you a man-sized bag” and he came and Joe and a bunch of our students all hid, I got on the phone, pretending to be on the phone, and I said “Yeah Bruce, go ahead and throw it in the back, its in there hanging up” and so he walked in and the expression on his face would have been great to have on film, and we all fell over when he saw the size of bag…

MPM: (laughs)

Bob Wall: …but he wouldn’t allow us to let him think it was a joke

(at this point Bob gets another call but quickly returns)

It was a friend of mine but I told him I’m in the middle of an interview so anyway we all popped out laughing and Bruce kick it once and fell over and then we helped him take it over to his place and hung it up in the garage and then he went over and kicked it and it broke the whole structure of the garage!

MPM: Wow!

Bob Wall: And so he had Herb (Jackson) come over and redo the whole garage and I’ll tell you, two months later, I saw him and he could kick the heck out of the bag!'

Actually, did the bag really hit the ceiling or because of the bag weight, then the whole structure of the garage broke? Both seems like nonsense to me.

Then this is Wally Jay's quote about Bruce Lee,

"I last saw Bruce after he moved from Culver City to Bel Air. He had a big heavy bag hanging out on his patio. It weighed 300lbs. I could hardly move it at all. Bruce said to me "Hey, Wally, watch this" and he jumped back and kicked it and this monster of a heavy bag went up to the ceiling, Thump!!! And came back down. I still can't believe the power that guy had".

I think the bag maybe only weigh at 100-200. Perhaps. But, just assume that Lee's feat is indeed real, do you know any boxer or MMA fighter that could perform such a feat? I think Tyson with his 1800 psi punch can make a 350 pound bag flying as much as Lee kick the 300lbs bag, if not more impressive.
tcunningham
3/23/12 1:40:52PM
400 lb heavy bag???? c'mon, ive never seen a 400lb bag.
Bubbles
3/23/12 2:07:16PM
lol ok
Geoffo
3/23/12 2:25:06PM
PICS OR DIDN'T HAPPEN
prophecy033
3/23/12 3:20:54PM
I call BS
Pookie
3/23/12 6:06:53PM
I've definitely seen a video of bruce lee sending a 100-150 lbs bag to the cieling with a side kick. 400 lbs is a bit much for that to happen, though if it somehow did, i think it's quite plausible to break a structure thats holding it up, since whatever is holding it up probably isn't suited to handle a 400 pound weight free falling a distance of a couple of feet.

Psi isn't as important to this type of feat as the push behind the strike. Mike tyson has footage of him hitting giant 300-400lbs bags and though he beats the shit out of it, it's not flying up. But a Sumo wrestler could probably push it up. So i don't really think PSI is attributable to this type of thing, though clearly its better for putting someone out.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there that saw Bruce Lee do some crazy shit, and then exaggerate it. It's the nature of people to embellish.
Lolok
3/23/12 9:57:34PM
I think maybe this is the 300lb bag that Bruce used to train his kicks.

Lolok
3/23/12 10:02:15PM
Well, 500 pound bag does exist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VkRSaS_J5E
Lolok
3/23/12 10:09:23PM

Posted by Pookie

I've definitely seen a video of bruce lee sending a 100-150 lbs bag to the cieling with a side kick. 400 lbs is a bit much for that to happen, though if it somehow did, i think it's quite plausible to break a structure thats holding it up, since whatever is holding it up probably isn't suited to handle a 400 pound weight free falling a distance of a couple of feet.

Psi isn't as important to this type of feat as the push behind the strike. Mike tyson has footage of him hitting giant 300-400lbs bags and though he beats the shit out of it, it's not flying up. But a Sumo wrestler could probably push it up. So i don't really think PSI is attributable to this type of thing, though clearly its better for putting someone out.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there that saw Bruce Lee do some crazy shit, and then exaggerate it. It's the nature of people to embellish.



You said it's quite plausible to break a structure thats hold the heavy bag. So, if Tyson really manage want to destroy a whole garage, house or any building structure by punching a 300-400 pound bag up to the ceiling, then it is possible. Really?
grappler0000
3/24/12 12:01:38AM


It's basic physics. Force = mass x acceleration. Basically a fired bullet can have the same force as a locomotive...assuming it is moving slow enough. Now it's been a few years since I've taken a physics class, but the acceleration needed from a 135 pound man to move a 400 pound object from rest (presumably) to that height would be astronomical. There are several factors to consider though. It would be beneficial of the kicker to have a running start and to use more of a pushing motion rather than a snapping kick. Also, the bag acts as a pendulum, so we are also talking about torque here as well...and since a kick is generally mostly a forward motion, that is technically a drawback for something like a heavy bag. I know Bruce Lee is no stranger to physics as he has amazed many people with his 1-inch punch, but this is just a matter of numbers. If both the kicker and bag are at or near rest, good luck with that.
Lolok
3/24/12 12:42:10AM

Posted by grappler0000



It's basic physics. Force = mass x acceleration. Basically a fired bullet can have the same force as a locomotive...assuming it is moving slow enough. Now it's been a few years since I've taken a physics class, but the acceleration needed from a 135 pound man to move a 400 pound object from rest (presumably) to that height would be astronomical. There are several factors to consider though. It would be beneficial of the kicker to have a running start and to use more of a pushing motion rather than a snapping kick. Also, the bag acts as a pendulum, so we are also talking about torque here as well...and since a kick is generally mostly a forward motion, that is technically a drawback for something like a heavy bag. I know Bruce Lee is no stranger to physics as he has amazed many people with his 1-inch punch, but this is just a matter of numbers. If both the kicker and bag are at or near rest, good luck with that.



So it is possible for a HW boxer to make a 400lb bag flying into and thump the ceiling with a single punch?
Bubbles
3/24/12 1:05:40AM

Posted by Lolok
So it is possible for a HW boxer to make a 400lb bag flying into and thump the ceiling with a single punch?



not a chance in hell, but send an e-mail to the guys at Mythbusters so they can prove you wrong.

on a side note, I once heard that Zinedine Zidane knocked over a cow with a headbutt
Pookie
3/24/12 1:12:27AM

Posted by Lolok


Posted by Pookie

I've definitely seen a video of bruce lee sending a 100-150 lbs bag to the cieling with a side kick. 400 lbs is a bit much for that to happen, though if it somehow did, i think it's quite plausible to break a structure thats holding it up, since whatever is holding it up probably isn't suited to handle a 400 pound weight free falling a distance of a couple of feet.

Psi isn't as important to this type of feat as the push behind the strike. Mike tyson has footage of him hitting giant 300-400lbs bags and though he beats the shit out of it, it's not flying up. But a Sumo wrestler could probably push it up. So i don't really think PSI is attributable to this type of thing, though clearly its better for putting someone out.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there that saw Bruce Lee do some crazy shit, and then exaggerate it. It's the nature of people to embellish.



You said it's quite plausible to break a structure thats hold the heavy bag. So, if Tyson really manage want to destroy a whole garage, house or any building structure by punching a 300-400 pound bag up to the ceiling, then it is possible. Really?



If the metal structure that slides the garage door isn't meant to have weight on it, and there is weight on it, you could conceivably ruin the whole structure just by damaging that. And it wouldn't be hard to damage that if it's not supposed to support that type of weight in the first place.

grappler0000
3/24/12 10:36:36AM

Posted by Lolok


Posted by grappler0000



It's basic physics. Force = mass x acceleration. Basically a fired bullet can have the same force as a locomotive...assuming it is moving slow enough. Now it's been a few years since I've taken a physics class, but the acceleration needed from a 135 pound man to move a 400 pound object from rest (presumably) to that height would be astronomical. There are several factors to consider though. It would be beneficial of the kicker to have a running start and to use more of a pushing motion rather than a snapping kick. Also, the bag acts as a pendulum, so we are also talking about torque here as well...and since a kick is generally mostly a forward motion, that is technically a drawback for something like a heavy bag. I know Bruce Lee is no stranger to physics as he has amazed many people with his 1-inch punch, but this is just a matter of numbers. If both the kicker and bag are at or near rest, good luck with that.



So it is possible for a HW boxer to make a 400lb bag flying into and thump the ceiling with a single punch?



Well, first off, a punch isn't gonna generate the same force as a well placed kick (relative to the size of the individual, assuming they are equally proficient with kicking and punching). TBH, I can't see it happening regardless of how large the person is or which limb they are throwing a strike with. The larger and more powerful the person, the less speed they will possess. At a certain point, it's a matter of diminishing returns. Aside from Chuck Norris doing this during a bed-time story, I don't even see someone even coming close. Making a 400 pound bag move is one thing, but making it touch the ceiling is nothing shy of silly talk.
Lolok
3/24/12 11:17:33AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Lolok
So it is possible for a HW boxer to make a 400lb bag flying into and thump the ceiling with a single punch?



not a chance in hell, but send an e-mail to the guys at Mythbusters so they can prove you wrong.

on a side note, I once heard that Zinedine Zidane knocked over a cow with a headbutt



Wow, that's incredible.
Lolok
3/24/12 11:22:10AM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Lolok


Posted by grappler0000



It's basic physics. Force = mass x acceleration. Basically a fired bullet can have the same force as a locomotive...assuming it is moving slow enough. Now it's been a few years since I've taken a physics class, but the acceleration needed from a 135 pound man to move a 400 pound object from rest (presumably) to that height would be astronomical. There are several factors to consider though. It would be beneficial of the kicker to have a running start and to use more of a pushing motion rather than a snapping kick. Also, the bag acts as a pendulum, so we are also talking about torque here as well...and since a kick is generally mostly a forward motion, that is technically a drawback for something like a heavy bag. I know Bruce Lee is no stranger to physics as he has amazed many people with his 1-inch punch, but this is just a matter of numbers. If both the kicker and bag are at or near rest, good luck with that.



So it is possible for a HW boxer to make a 400lb bag flying into and thump the ceiling with a single punch?



Well, first off, a punch isn't gonna generate the same force as a well placed kick (relative to the size of the individual, assuming they are equally proficient with kicking and punching). TBH, I can't see it happening regardless of how large the person is or which limb they are throwing a strike with. The larger and more powerful the person, the less speed they will possess. At a certain point, it's a matter of diminishing returns. Aside from Chuck Norris doing this during a bed-time story, I don't even see someone even coming close. Making a 400 pound bag move is one thing, but making it touch the ceiling is nothing shy of silly talk.



How do you know that a punch isn't gonna generate same force as a kick? And I don't recalled Chuck Norris ever kicked a heavy bag. I only remember that Bruce Lee's friends said that Bruce kicked a 300lb bag flying into and thump into ceiling and in one occasion he destroy a whole garage by kicking a same 300lb bag.
grappler0000
3/24/12 12:20:52PM

Posted by Lolok

How do you know that a punch isn't gonna generate same force as a kick?



Again, basic physics.
Lolok
3/24/12 1:04:06PM
But a punch can be stronger than a kick.
ncordless
3/24/12 1:11:13PM
I could send a 400lb. man's bean bags flying into he air with one kick. Probably a punch as well.
grappler0000
3/24/12 1:17:07PM

Posted by Lolok

But a punch can be stronger than a kick.



Can be, yes. Under normal conditions, with someone who is equally proficient at kicking and punching, the kick will almost assuredly be harder. Can't change the laws of physics.
Lolok
3/24/12 1:55:29PM
What's the physics behind that kick is harder than punch?
UFC_Fanatic
3/24/12 5:52:25PM

Posted by Lolok

What's the physics behind that kick is harder than punch?



I wouldn't quote me on this because it's been a long time since I've researched stuff like this, but speaking from a the perspective of muscles involved in the motion of a punch and a kick, the punch is normally going to be weaker than a kick due to the power of the muscles involved. The power a person has in their legs is far greater than the power a person has in their arms, even though a proficient puncher is using more than just the muscles in their arms, but still, I doubt the muscles used can generate the power people have in their legs. The hamstring and the thigh muscles and the other muscles in the legs are EXTREMELY powerful. Everyone uses and constantly work those muscles in some capacity everyday. An example of relative strength, back when i was lifting weights in high school, I would bench around 175 lbs as my rep weight, but on the leg press (i believe that's the name of the thing), I would lift around 600-700 lbs or so as my regular rep weight. It's a difference in the amount of force that the muscles involved in kicking can generate compared to the amount of force the muscles involved in punching can generate. Again though, I wouldn't quote me on this, as I'm sure there are people here on the playground that are more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.
Bubbles
3/24/12 6:44:01PM

Posted by Lolok

What's the physics behind that kick is harder than punch?



simple logic. you can lift more on a leg press than you can on a bench press

lolok =
Lolok
3/24/12 8:56:35PM
Legs are stronger than arms, only in general sense.
Poor_Franklin
3/24/12 11:52:09PM
early "Thread of the Year" nominee we got here.

instant subcriber
warglory
3/25/12 12:16:57AM

Posted by Lolok

Legs are stronger than arms, only in general sense.



You can generate far more power with a kick than you can with a punch, because legs have more range of motion than an arm does. Also, the power in a punch is more generated by your hips and legs than by the arm itself, therefore logic dictates your core is in your hips and legs, therefore generating an attack from your core itself, is going to generate more power than an alternate limb.
Adrenaline
3/25/12 1:45:52AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Lolok

What's the physics behind that kick is harder than punch?



simple logic. you can lift more on a leg press than you can on a bench press

lolok =




Don't be mean Bubbles, I do fear that he is being serious.


Kicks are inherently stronger because of mass X acceleration= Force. The average human leg is somewhere between 15-22% of your total body mass each, where as the average arm is like 6.5 percent of your total body mass each. (This was just a quick search, could be wrong but it really is common sense). Where as the muscles in the leg are generally larger than the muscles in the arm they can accelerate this larger mass faster, creating more force.

I'm no smartly pants but that makes sense to me.

I think another question is could the average, or even not so average human body withstand the amount of force that it would take to put a 400 lb bag at rest not only into motion but to the degree of movement that you describe (from rest to the ceiling). Human bones can be conditioned but they can only take so much force. (look up Corey Hill's leg ). Its an interesting topic but the amount of force we are talking about is pretty incredible.
Lolok
3/25/12 3:23:55AM
Are you all serious about this topic? Hahaha. But I'm still thinking that a boxer can throw a more powerful punch than kick. A kick generate force from the legs and hips, whereas a punch actually generate force from arms, hips, leg and body weight. The most powerful boxer punch, if I recalled can be more powerful than strongest kick. If you think this is nonsense, then just stick to your beliefs only.
warglory
3/25/12 11:29:24AM

Posted by Lolok

Are you all serious about this topic? Hahaha. But I'm still thinking that a boxer can throw a more powerful punch than kick. A kick generate force from the legs and hips, whereas a punch actually generate force from arms, hips, leg and body weight. The most powerful boxer punch, if I recalled can be more powerful than strongest kick. If you think this is nonsense, then just stick to your beliefs only.



See, now you're just being difficult, and maybe you are trolling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQINqPI7S0

1000 lbs of force. Houston Alexander, when he tested his punching force, only generated 800 lbs of force. And what's more impressive, the muay thai fighter in the test kick weighs around 150 lbs I believe, while Houston Alexander is a light heavyweight. If you can give us some evidence that a puncher and a kicker in the same weight class, can back up your opinion, I'd like to see it.
Lolok
3/25/12 1:02:27PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by Lolok

Are you all serious about this topic? Hahaha. But I'm still thinking that a boxer can throw a more powerful punch than kick. A kick generate force from the legs and hips, whereas a punch actually generate force from arms, hips, leg and body weight. The most powerful boxer punch, if I recalled can be more powerful than strongest kick. If you think this is nonsense, then just stick to your beliefs only.



See, now you're just being difficult, and maybe you are trolling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maQINqPI7S0

1000 lbs of force. Houston Alexander, when he tested his punching force, only generated 800 lbs of force. And what's more impressive, the muay thai fighter in the test kick weighs around 150 lbs I believe, while Houston Alexander is a light heavyweight. If you can give us some evidence that a puncher and a kicker in the same weight class, can back up your opinion, I'd like to see it.



Btw, Tyson's punch is registered at 1800 psi. Do you know how to cenvert psi into pound of force?
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