Florian Haters?

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nickcuc547
11/16/08 11:02:57AM
Please take back all of the crap you were talking about him after the huerta fight. The man does finish fights and he finishes good fighters often. I thought kenny would lose to stevenson and he dominated. This guy absolutely deserves the next title shot against bj. Unfortunately I don't think he gives him much of a fight unless bj comes in out of shape. WIth that said florian is a top 5 lw and a staple in the division.
Rush
11/16/08 11:04:13AM
I don't like Kenny, but for the last 3 or 4 fights I have gave him nothign but credit. All in all I think he is the most improved fighter from TUF.
mikevolz
11/16/08 11:12:23AM
i think its important to look at how well his wrestling has improved since the lauzon fight.

i mean, that kind of improvement that fast is SCARY.
MALICE
11/16/08 11:30:38AM
I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.
cowcatcher
11/16/08 11:39:31AM
im not a fan of florian either, but i agree with rush that he is BY FAR the most improved fighter that was on TUF. even after he made it to the finals i thought he would be out of the ufc shortly thereafter and here he is getting his second crack at ufc gold. good for him, the guy is really good wherever the fight goes, but hes no bj and i think hes going to be 0-2 in ufc title shots.
wolfman
11/16/08 11:56:43AM

Posted by xxMALICExx

I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.



I also thought of this after the fight was over. It is an interesting stat, but like you said we all know how meaningless MMA Math can be.
Jackelope
11/16/08 12:02:24PM
LOL I don't think you can ask people to take things back just because of the outcome of a fight Although I will admit that when I saw people saying Kenflo "doesn't finish fights" I thought they must be crazy. Florian definitely finishes fights (just look up his record) and he's becoming crazy technical in all aspects of the game.

The one thing I was surprised about in this fight is that Kenflo didn't spend more time on his back. I was also surprised by Stevenson's stalking demeanor.

Mark Delagrotte has to be the best footwork coach in all of MMA, though. He may also possibly be the best standup coach in all of MMA. Take a look at a few past fights of Kenflo and Marcus Davis and check out how incredibly improved their footwork has become in the last few years. There was one point of the Kenflo vs. Daddy fight that Kenflo juked the ref so hard he almost ran into him. I was dying laughing.

Edit: Also, I posted this the other day in the MMAPlayground game forum, and it shows that I'm not just hugging nuts because Kenflo had a good victory. I knew Joe would be the aggressor, but I figured Kenflo would have all the answers for his aggression from a technical standpoint.


I can't wait to see Joe Daddy go to work against Kenflo in what I believe will be an incredibly technical display put on by Kenny.
MALICE
11/16/08 12:09:15PM
Yeah, I saw that too. I was also surprised that Joe didn't have top position more. I expected him to be much stronger than Kenny, and use his good wrestling to get Kenny to the ground. But that was not the case. Kenny is just too slippery. On the feet and on the ground.
tuvok500
11/16/08 1:02:35PM
GSP will destroy Bj and then Florian will beat BJ for the lightweight belt, so basically .... WAR Florian !!!

seanfu
11/16/08 1:12:52PM
Dude, Florian was always one of my favorites since I first started watching the sport. But I never was a beleiver of any world class potential. I am now.

He amazed against Stevenson.

He could beat BJ. And that's not a stretch.
jocka
11/16/08 1:14:30PM

Posted by tuvok500

GSP will destroy Bj and then Florian will beat BJ for the lightweight belt, so basically .... WAR Florian !!!




Wow that would be awesome
holt8081
11/16/08 2:58:41PM

Posted by tuvok500

GSP will destroy Bj and then Florian will beat BJ for the lightweight belt, so basically .... WAR Florian !!!


oh wait you were sirius

Bj can take Gsp and I dont think Kenflo stands a change with BJ
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
11/16/08 2:59:57PM
anyone else think bj looked a little scared when they showed him after the florian comments. Normally i'd expext bj to come running up to the cage and say " as soon as i beat gsp your next!" Maybe It was just an awkward look because he is secretly planning to never return to lightweight ?
tuvok500
11/16/08 3:03:55PM

Posted by AnDeRsonDaSiLvA

anyone else think bj looked a little scared when they showed him after the florian comments. Normally i'd expext bj to come running up to the cage and say " as soon as i beat gsp your next!" Maybe It was just an awkward look because he is secretly planning to never return to lightweight ?



He will have to return to LW because he will be soooooooo humiliated against GSP than the only way for him to win again will be at LW, but like i said Florian gonna beat him, maybe even forcing him to tap !!! Would be cool !!!

ncordless
11/16/08 3:03:59PM
Anyone who says that Florian has no chance against BJ doesn't know the first thing about MMA. I wouldn't say Florian is the favorite, but this will be a very competitive fight.
nickcuc547
11/16/08 3:32:21PM

Posted by ncordless

Anyone who says that Florian has no chance against BJ doesn't know the first thing about MMA. I wouldn't say Florian is the favorite, but this will be a very competitive fight.



he has a chance, just not a very good one, bj is better than florian in every aspect of mma. and florian is one of my favorite fighters, but i just can't ignore bj's talent.
ncordless
11/16/08 3:41:32PM

Posted by nickcuc547


Posted by ncordless

Anyone who says that Florian has no chance against BJ doesn't know the first thing about MMA. I wouldn't say Florian is the favorite, but this will be a very competitive fight.



he has a chance, just not a very good one, bj is better than florian in every aspect of mma. and florian is one of my favorite fighters, but i just can't ignore bj's talent.



Florian can outwork BJ with better conditioning, and conditioning is a huge part of mma. Florian has good enough striking, wrestling, and BJJ to hang with a tired BJ. I think BJ will win, but if the fight goes past the third all bets are off.
Rush
11/16/08 3:41:50PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.




I think he was given the RNC by Joe when Joe grabbed the fence. Had Joe defended the choke and not the fence Kenny might not have finished the fight.

Kenny looked pretty good, but I saw a flaw in this fight. Also, I think the win had just as much to do with Joe making a mistake.
ncordless
11/16/08 3:42:58PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by xxMALICExx

I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.




I think he was given the RNC by Joe when Joe grabbed the fence. Had Joe defended the choke and not the fence Kenny might not have finished the fight.

Kenny looked pretty good, but I saw a flaw in this fight. Also, I think the win had just as much to do with Joe making a mistake.



Pray tell?
postman
11/16/08 3:53:16PM
No I amnologer a hater Hes good real good! I thought joe would dismantle him.
dannyfrank
11/16/08 6:27:28PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.



thats only because BJ spent the beggining of the fight painting joe's face red
RedCloud
11/16/08 7:54:44PM

Posted by dannyfrank


Posted by xxMALICExx

I'm just going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean anything, but I have to make this one point.

Kenny Florian def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:03 of the 1st rd.
BJ Penn def. Joe Stevenson by RNC at 4:02 of the 2nd rd.

Kenny def Joe in 1/2 of the time that BJ did.



thats only because BJ spent the beggining of the fight painting joe's face red



Thats exactly what i was going to say!

Look, Kenny is a super likable dude....
and it will be his dream come true to be in the ring with BJ Penn (win or lose).

Both Kenny and GSP will get MURKED by BJ PENN come 2009.
Thats when all the Nutthuggers will Tarzan swing from sack to sack and will be all: "Anderson Silva is my favorite fighter in the world and i cant wait till he beats BJ Penn".

Just Be Cool.




Rush
11/16/08 7:58:37PM

Posted by ncordless

Pray tell?




I've noticed that Ken likes to stalk, but seems to panic and look uncomfortable when being stalked. Joe actually had him in trouble on the fence a couple times.

My (inexperienced) game plan for BJ would be to push the pace standing. Kenny will not be able to take BJ down so I think BJ can be comfortable banging.

The only way I see Ken beating BJ is if BJ lets him use a lot of leg kicks. BJ should be able to keep from using them if he is aggressive. If it is a boxing match or a ground war, I see BJ taking it easily.
Jackelope
11/16/08 9:19:56PM
I agree with the perceived weakness of Kenny Florian, but I would go against BJ Penn with a different mindset. Since he's an orthodox type boxer I would disturb his range by taking away his ability to jab. BJ lives off the jab (and it's a damn good jab) and Kenflo should have some reach on him. Although BJ has insane reach for his height
The_Metal_Maniac
11/16/08 11:45:19PM
I doubt anyone has little question as to Florian being a legit light weight. That being said Bj still has to fight GSP which potentially leads to three occurrences. Bj could suffer some sort of injury in which case would cause Kenny to fight someone else such as a rematch with Sherk. Bj could be beaten in such a fashion that it would change him psychologically to where he will never be the same fighter again. Bj could also beat GSP and have a ridiculous amount of confidence to go along with his skill set and make it not even a close fight. I look at the light weight division like this, Bj Penn and then everyone else. Having a marketable personality doesn't make you capable of beating Penn. Ken Flo learned a lot from his loss with Sherk, and he came back a more well rounded fighter. I think the same thing will happen with Penn. Ken Flo will lose in decisive fashion and come back a better fighter. A never ending cycle which ends with the same result time after time. Kenny losing to Bj. I think this is the part of my rant where I write WAR in capital letters and declare my allegiance to a particular fighter. WAR BJ!!! lol....
GrizzlyChadams
11/17/08 1:18:22AM
I continue to be shocked at how well Kenny is still improving. I'm a big fan and knew he would beat Stevenson but I didn't think it would be that easy for him. He completely out classed him, and thats something i don't think anyone was expecting.

As for Kenny against BJ? It's a tough call, BJ is probably quite a bit better in most aspects of the game, but Kenny is no slouch, and could potentially upset BJ.
ncordless
11/17/08 3:54:30AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by ncordless

Pray tell?




I've noticed that Ken likes to stalk, but seems to panic and look uncomfortable when being stalked. Joe actually had him in trouble on the fence a couple times.

My (inexperienced) game plan for BJ would be to push the pace standing. Kenny will not be able to take BJ down so I think BJ can be comfortable banging.

The only way I see Ken beating BJ is if BJ lets him use a lot of leg kicks. BJ should be able to keep from using them if he is aggressive. If it is a boxing match or a ground war, I see BJ taking it easily.



I can see where you are coming from on that, but I don't think it's near as much an issue as that. Kenny was moving pretty rapidly around the cage and Joe started chasing him. Huerta did the same thing several times at 87 and got caught with it. The difference was that Huerta would give chase and then come flying in with a superman punch, while Joe kept stalking and eventually had Ken against the cage. Ken showed pretty nifty takedown defense against the cage and never really looked "in trouble" IMO.

One other thing to think about is that what does all thish have to do with a BJ fight? I just can't see BJ charging ahead like Joe did. Caol Uno notwithstanding, BJ doesn't usually waste energy like that on the feet. I think the fight revolves around whether BJ lands his jab effectively on the mobile Florian, and who gets the takedowns.

Jackelope
11/17/08 8:22:40AM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by Rush


Posted by ncordless

Pray tell?




I've noticed that Ken likes to stalk, but seems to panic and look uncomfortable when being stalked. Joe actually had him in trouble on the fence a couple times.

My (inexperienced) game plan for BJ would be to push the pace standing. Kenny will not be able to take BJ down so I think BJ can be comfortable banging.

The only way I see Ken beating BJ is if BJ lets him use a lot of leg kicks. BJ should be able to keep from using them if he is aggressive. If it is a boxing match or a ground war, I see BJ taking it easily.



I can see where you are coming from on that, but I don't think it's near as much an issue as that. Kenny was moving pretty rapidly around the cage and Joe started chasing him. Huerta did the same thing several times at 87 and got caught with it. The difference was that Huerta would give chase and then come flying in with a superman punch, while Joe kept stalking and eventually had Ken against the cage. Ken showed pretty nifty takedown defense against the cage and never really looked "in trouble" IMO.

One other thing to think about is that what does all thish have to do with a BJ fight? I just can't see BJ charging ahead like Joe did. Caol Uno notwithstanding, BJ doesn't usually waste energy like that on the feet. I think the fight revolves around whether BJ lands his jab effectively on the mobile Florian, and who gets the takedowns.




The difference is that Joe Stevenson has much better footwork and boxing than Huerta. Stevenson knew how to squash Florian's range and cut off the corners correctly.

I'm not totally crapping on your point, but I don't think it's a comparison you can fairly make between Stevenson and Huerta. Two totally different fighters, one with a vast amount more of fighting experience (both boxing and MMA) Also, I think Joe would have done himself some favors if he had thrown a couple good combos while he had Florian's reach squashed against the fence
4u2nv
11/17/08 9:34:13AM
Ken Flo looked super sharp the other night and i think he can take BJ if he wins or loses to GSP bc he'll be off his A game. Thats how BJ gets and Ken Flo is hungry and has his mind set on it.
emfleek
11/17/08 9:39:46AM
In the past year, Florian has gone from being one of my most hated fighters (and I can't really explain why I even hated him) to cracking my "top 10" favorite fighters list. I love watching this guy in the cage.

Would he beat BJ? I don't know...no one knows for sure. But he's no chump and it would definitely be a fun one to watch.
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