Fitch Looking For Title Shot Or 185

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DCRage
8/3/10 7:21:48AM
Jon Fitch has been itching to get another shot at the UFC welterweight title, and he hopes to achieve that goal when he faces Thiago Alves at UFC 117 in Oakland. The American Kickboxing Academy welterweight has long lobbied for a rematch with champion Georges St-Pierre, who defeated Fitch at UFC 87 in August 2008. Fitch believes as he matches up with another top five welterweight that a win would secure another shot at the belt, but he knows there are no sure things in MMA. The UFC welterweight title will be up for grabs later this year when Fitch's teammate Josh Koscheck gets his rematch with St-Pierre in December. The American Kickboxing Academy teammates have long been taxed by UFC president Dana White about fighting each other, both stating several times that it would never happen. For Fitch, he believes that timing will play a big role in what he does after December if his teammate and close friend is victorious in his bid to win the UFC welterweight strap. Looking down the road, Fitch has now stated that if Koscheck is victorious (including a likely immediate rematch after December), he will eat some food, hit the weight room, and go up to 185 pounds in hopes of adding another title to the San Jose, Calif., gym.

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Boo_Radley21
8/3/10 8:21:55AM
185 would be tough for him cause a lot of the guys are the same size or bigger than him unlike 170 where he's huge.
Caesarrrr
8/3/10 11:24:33AM

Posted by Boo_Radley21

185 would be tough for him cause a lot of the guys are the same size or bigger than him unlike 170 where he's huge.



I think it's more than that. He can put on size, but the problem at 185 would be his standup. 185 has some beast strikers, and Okami showed that a takedown isn't enough anymore. He'll have to change his gameplan, for sure.
McBee
8/3/10 12:18:48PM
Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.
Jackelope
8/3/10 12:23:16PM

Posted by McBee

Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.



On the contrary, I know plenty of John Fitch fans. I'm sure they'll speak up on this board. I'm one.

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.
emfleek
8/3/10 12:40:46PM

Posted by Jackelope

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.



This.

I hope he does finish Alves. Maybe some of the BOXING and BJJ fans will shut up about it for a while.
lohmann
8/3/10 12:47:17PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by McBee

Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.



On the contrary, I know plenty of John Fitch fans. I'm sure they'll speak up on this board. I'm one.

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.



Fitch has been fighting some hard guys to finish for the last few years. Diego Sanchez, Mike Pierce, and Paulo Thiago have never been finished, and Gono and Chris Wilson are tough too. Fitch gets a lot of unnecessary smack about being unable to close out a fight.
McBee
8/3/10 12:48:19PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by McBee

Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.



On the contrary, I know plenty of John Fitch fans. I'm sure they'll speak up on this board. I'm one.

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.



At least GSP tries, some of the time, to sub people and has in the past, Fitch never tries and never has, when I write it has my name on it so that kind of implies I am speaking and not the entire MMA Community. I am not someone who boos when it goes to the ground and I can appreciate that he is a good wrestler but I cannot stand to watch his smothering and just jabbing faces enough to not get stood up.
prozacnation1978
8/3/10 1:31:34PM
If fitch wins he deserves his title shot for sure
emfleek
8/3/10 1:33:21PM

Posted by McBee

At least GSP tries, some of the time, to sub people and has in the past, Fitch never tries and never has



Fitch has the same number of finishes as GSP in the last 4 years, since 2006, with 4 (3 by Sub and 1 by TKO). Not bad for someone who supposedly "never tries" and "never has".

And Fitch is ALWAYS looking to sink in a RNC when he takes a fighter's back so the argument that he never tries isn't a substaniated one.
McBee
8/3/10 1:35:26PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

If fitch wins he deserves his title shot for sure



He already had one, I think if Shields wins a couple he should get it over Fitch, and Fitch speaks out a lot and AKA has not been the most amicable relationship to the UFC in the past so I do not think he will get a 2nd GSP title shot for a while.
Focker101
8/3/10 1:37:54PM

Posted by McBee


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by McBee

Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.



On the contrary, I know plenty of John Fitch fans. I'm sure they'll speak up on this board. I'm one.

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.



At least GSP tries, some of the time, to sub people and has in the past, Fitch never tries and never has, when I write it has my name on it so that kind of implies I am speaking and not the entire MMA Community. I am not someone who boos when it goes to the ground and I can appreciate that he is a good wrestler but I cannot stand to watch his smothering and just jabbing faces enough to not get stood up.





I agree the only Fitch fight I was excited to watch was the GSP one
And I admit the beating Fitch took and kept going was incredible and nothing but props for it

but being GSP's punching bag for 5 rounds as your fan favorite fight speaks volumes about your marketability, and how desperately you need to add to your game, right now he can take guys down almost at will. At 185 that just wont happen.
Like McBee said it is time to add some MMA skillset to your wrestling, I cant stand KOS but I love the fact that he has evolved and I look forward to his name on a fight card

I too hope Alves stops him, too bad it wont go down like that
McBee
8/3/10 1:45:10PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by McBee

At least GSP tries, some of the time, to sub people and has in the past, Fitch never tries and never has



Fitch has the same number of finishes as GSP in the last 4 years, since 2006, with 4 (3 by Sub and 1 by TKO). Not bad for someone who supposedly "never tries" and "never has".

And Fitch is ALWAYS looking to sink in a RNC when he takes a fighter's back so the argument that he never tries isn't a substaniated one.



but not in the last 7 fights, "what have you done for me lately" rewatch the Ben Sauders fight and tell me he was trying to finish that fight, Swick was able to finish him, if his is such a monster, he should be able to finish Wilson, Saunders and Gono who has been finished 8 times. Wilson even made a fight out of it.

I am not saying he is not a great fighter, we are talking about a 2nd title shot against the same opponent he lost to, to get another title shot there should be a reason, like he is getting better and doing something different, but he is doing the same or worse.
lohmann
8/3/10 1:59:41PM

Posted by McBee

but not in the last 7 fights, "what have you done for me lately" rewatch the Ben Sauders fight and tell me he was trying to finish that fight, Swick was able to finish him, if his is such a monster, he should be able to finish Wilson, Saunders and Gono who has been finished 8 times. Wilson even made a fight out of it.

I am not saying he is not a great fighter, we are talking about a 2nd title shot against the same opponent he lost to, to get another title shot there should be a reason, like he is getting better and doing something different, but he is doing the same or worse.



Gono being finished 8 times hardly tells the story of how durable Gono is. Outside of the high kick from Hornbuckle that would have killed anybody, since 2001, he's only been stopped by Shogun Rua and Dan Henderson.

He probably should have finished Saunders at some point. I'll concede that.
McBee
8/3/10 2:04:19PM

Posted by lohmann


Posted by McBee

but not in the last 7 fights, "what have you done for me lately" rewatch the Ben Sauders fight and tell me he was trying to finish that fight, Swick was able to finish him, if his is such a monster, he should be able to finish Wilson, Saunders and Gono who has been finished 8 times. Wilson even made a fight out of it.

I am not saying he is not a great fighter, we are talking about a 2nd title shot against the same opponent he lost to, to get another title shot there should be a reason, like he is getting better and doing something different, but he is doing the same or worse.



Gono being finished 8 times hardly tells the story of how durable Gono is. Outside of the high kick from Hornbuckle that would have killed anybody, since 2001, he's only been stopped by Shogun Rua and Dan Henderson.

He probably should have finished Saunders at some point. I'll concede that.



yeah I was reaching, but it has been done
emfleek
8/3/10 2:26:15PM

Posted by lohmann

He probably should have finished Saunders at some point. I'll concede that.



I personally wouldn't hold a fight against him when he only had 2 days to prepare for an opponent that he likely knew nothing about.
brutalbones
8/3/10 2:28:59PM
Fitch is a beast. If he beats Alves, which I think he will, he's gotta be next in line for sure.
McBee
8/3/10 2:34:31PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by lohmann

He probably should have finished Saunders at some point. I'll concede that.



I personally wouldn't hold a fight against him when he only had 2 days to prepare for an opponent that he likely knew nothing about.



just watch the fight over and tell me he was trying to finish Ben, he has great cardio so I really doubt he was too winded to throw harder punches.
DosBox
8/3/10 2:47:14PM
I think if Fitch defeats Alves that he deserves a title shot - whether or not politics/business gets in the way of a shot is its own discussion - but based on merit I think so.

He got destroyed against GSP so its really hard to garner fan support a rematch - and it might not be that successful of a PPV if that headlines. Again thats more business/politics - but merit based he would defeat Thiago Alves (top 3), a good undefeated prospect in Paulo Thiago (at the time - roughly top 10 at the time as well). Gono, Saunders, and Pierce.

A lot of people dont like his style but the end result is in fact a W - and a victory over Alves in my view makes him #2 and deserving of a shot.

And I agree with emfleek a little bit about the Saunders fight - 2 days to prepare a fresh gameplan for a different fighter then he was supposed to fight would be tough.

Its really hard to gauge "trying" to finish a fight, im sure if Saunders had a much looser guard Fitch would have passed guard more often and definitely would have "tried" harder to finish.

Fighters have evolved to the point that they no longer get utterly destroyed in guard like the time Tito stopped people in guard a few years ago just by throwing a barrage of punches/elbows.
emfleek
8/3/10 3:03:39PM
I don't have the luxury of being able to watch that fight right now.

However, you went from saying he "never finishes" and "never even tries" to saying he didn't try in the Saunders fight (1 fight) where he still absolutely dominated (and cut) his opponent even if he didn't finish him or "attempt" to finish him, by your standards.
McBee
8/3/10 3:14:03PM

Posted by emfleek

I don't have the luxury of being able to watch that fight right now.

However, you went from saying he "never finishes" and "never even tries" to saying he didn't try in the Saunders fight (1 fight) where he still absolutely dominated (and cut) his opponent even if he didn't finish him or "attempt" to finish him, by your standards.



sorry using the word "never" was a little short sided on my part I used to like him when he came on to the scene, but in the last bouts I have seen, Wilson, Saunders, Peirce, Paulo Thiago and Sanchez he has seemed to me, a spectator, to have been caring more about wrestling than fighting, concerned only with winning and not finishing. I hated Sylvia for it and I root against Fitch because of it.

On the title shot side, like a said before, he has nothing new to sell, he looked more impressive before the last title shot then after it. He needs to do more than just win, that is just reality, all buyer are going to remember about him is that he already loss to GSP and all of his fights since have been ridiculously boring.
Jackelope
8/3/10 7:48:41PM

Posted by McBee


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by McBee

Hopefully Alves takes care of his title aspirations and this discussion is terminated.

But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again, until he learns how to finish people with his ground and pound or submit guys I frankly do not want to see him period.



On the contrary, I know plenty of John Fitch fans. I'm sure they'll speak up on this board. I'm one.

I don't see how Fitch not finishing people is any different than GSP not going in and finishing people. We get it. You want to see KO's, submissions, etc. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok with people speaking for the entire MMA community as though their opinion is irrefutable fact. Because it's not.

On top of that, if I recall correctly I remember plenty of fans saying the Fitch vs. GSP title fight was one of the most exciting fights they'd seen in a long time due to the sheer toughness of Fitch.



when I write it has my name on it so that kind of implies I am speaking and not the entire MMA Community.



Then you shouldn't have put, and I quote


But I say go to 185 then because no one wants to see a fitch title fight again


Jackelope
8/3/10 7:54:58PM

Posted by McBee

I hated Sylvia for it and I root against Fitch because of it.



Sylvia had 6 KO's out of his 11 wins in the Octagon. Over 50% of his fights were KO's while in the UFC.
seanfu
8/4/10 1:58:04PM

Posted by DosBox

I think if Fitch defeats Alves that he deserves a title shot - whether or not politics/business gets in the way of a shot is its own discussion - but based on merit I think so.

He got destroyed against GSP so its really hard to garner fan support a rematch - and it might not be that successful of a PPV if that headlines. Again thats more business/politics - but merit based he would defeat Thiago Alves (top 3), a good undefeated prospect in Paulo Thiago (at the time - roughly top 10 at the time as well). Gono, Saunders, and Pierce.

A lot of people dont like his style but the end result is in fact a W - and a victory over Alves in my view makes him #2 and deserving of a shot.



I think it's only fair to point out that saying politics are holding him back from a rematch might not be the right approach. He wins but I think we all know what GSP would do to him, so the politics of going undefeated despite having a lesser chance than most other top matchups stylistically might be what get him the shot. I hope he wins against Alves, and I wish he would evolve tha badass standup that he has the drive to achieve for sure, but honestly he will probably never turn that corner and will probably lose the Alves fight.
McBee
8/11/10 7:16:10PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by McBee

I hated Sylvia for it and I root against Fitch because of it.



Sylvia had 6 KO's out of his 11 wins in the Octagon. Over 50% of his fights were KO's while in the UFC.



but after he got the belt he stopped trying to finish, he even mentioned it in interviews, he was too busy wearing the belt in public
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