Fitch Never Gets a Break...

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emfleek
2/27/11 7:26:19PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181

He had his title shot and he got beat, in a dominating fashion.



You're right. He should retire. No one deserves a 2nd title shot.

Blasphemy.
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:26:50PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

People can both acknowledge his abilities and not like the way he fights at the same time...Most people, atleast on this forum, have a very good understanding of the sport. Some enjoy watching him fight, while others don't, different strokes for different folks.



You are totally mis-understanding my point. It's the people that don't acknowledge his abilities and accomplishments that bother me, and that happens all that time, and I am sick of it. I don't know why you think I am claiming people who merely don't like Fitch's style are being targeted.



I guess I just don't get why the opinions of people you don't know and haven't met bother you so much...
warglory
2/27/11 7:30:32PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181


Posted by warglory


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

People can both acknowledge his abilities and not like the way he fights at the same time...Most people, atleast on this forum, have a very good understanding of the sport. Some enjoy watching him fight, while others don't, different strokes for different folks.



You are totally mis-understanding my point. It's the people that don't acknowledge his abilities and accomplishments that bother me, and that happens all that time, and I am sick of it. I don't know why you think I am claiming people who merely don't like Fitch's style are being targeted.



I guess I just don't get why the opinions of people you don't know and haven't met bother you so much...



Jesus dude, you make it sound like I am internalizing it and will lose hair from the stress. I don't care that much, it's still just a sport, but I am a big fan of this sport and it's competitors, and when people make ignorant comments, it pisses me off. What's the point of watching sport if you don't develop an emotional reaction to it?
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:33:17PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by FrankTheTank1181


Posted by warglory


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

People can both acknowledge his abilities and not like the way he fights at the same time...Most people, atleast on this forum, have a very good understanding of the sport. Some enjoy watching him fight, while others don't, different strokes for different folks.



You are totally mis-understanding my point. It's the people that don't acknowledge his abilities and accomplishments that bother me, and that happens all that time, and I am sick of it. I don't know why you think I am claiming people who merely don't like Fitch's style are being targeted.



I guess I just don't get why the opinions of people you don't know and haven't met bother you so much...



Jesus dude, you make it sound like I am internalizing it and will lose hair from the stress. I don't care that much, it's still just a sport, but I am a big fan of this sport and it's competitors, and when people make ignorant comments, it pisses me off. What's the point of watching sport if you don't develop an emotional reaction to it?



Entertainment?
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:36:00PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

He had his title shot and he got beat, in a dominating fashion.



You're right. He should retire. No one deserves a 2nd title shot.

Blasphemy.



I never said he should retire, where did u read that?
emfleek
2/27/11 7:44:58PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181

I never said he should retire, where did u read that?



You didn't but it's just as outrageous to say he should retire as it is to say he doesn't deserve another title shot simply because he already had one.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 7:51:19PM

Posted by warglory

I know the difference between people who don't like Fitch's style, and those that are disrespectful. Go over to the news announcement of this draw victory for a clear understanding of the difference in my opinion. Saying Fitch lays and prays is blatantly incorrect. Saying Fitch stalls is incorrect, etc. By saying these things, these folks are not merely showing a dislike for the man, they are mis-representing him, and show blatant disrespect. I don't care if people think Fitch is boring, and I'd ask anyone to find a quote of me stating otherwise, that's pure opinion. But when fans start to discredit what the man has done, that's when I start getting irritated, and that's the point of this whole thread.



You need to be clearer in your point then because your thesis was that you didn't understand the disrespect that gets lobbed Fitch's way. I'm pointing out to you why Fitch gets that disrespect.

Fitch brings a lot of this on himself. He doesn't want to fight anyone in his camp, he got absolutely TORCHED by GSP and, I'm sorry, but I've seen ZERO proof that Fitch has done anything to lead anyone to believe that a rematch would end ANY differently. But, he's lobbying for a shot when he won't even fight the second best wrestler in his division and just fought Penn to a draw.

He's dictating the terms of his title runs and opponents, but you're claiming this hatred is blasphemy? Who else was able to do that?
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:53:29PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

I never said he should retire, where did u read that?



You didn't but it's just as outrageous to say he should retire as it is to say he doesn't deserve another title shot simply because he already had one.



Coming off of a draw, no he doesn't deserve one.
emfleek
2/27/11 8:05:05PM

Posted by FrankTheTank1181

Coming off of a draw, no he doesn't deserve one.


That is not what you said. I don't disagree with *that* statement but you stated earlier in the thread that he doesn't deserve a title shot simply because he already had one.
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 8:08:00PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by FrankTheTank1181

Coming off of a draw, no he doesn't deserve one.


That is not what you said. I don't disagree with *that* statement but you stated earlier in the thread that he doesn't deserve a title shot simply because he already had one.



I guess I assumed people wouldn't be so naive to think I meant his "one and only title shot"...
warglory
2/27/11 8:18:43PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by warglory

I know the difference between people who don't like Fitch's style, and those that are disrespectful. Go over to the news announcement of this draw victory for a clear understanding of the difference in my opinion. Saying Fitch lays and prays is blatantly incorrect. Saying Fitch stalls is incorrect, etc. By saying these things, these folks are not merely showing a dislike for the man, they are mis-representing him, and show blatant disrespect. I don't care if people think Fitch is boring, and I'd ask anyone to find a quote of me stating otherwise, that's pure opinion. But when fans start to discredit what the man has done, that's when I start getting irritated, and that's the point of this whole thread.



You need to be clearer in your point then because your thesis was that you didn't understand the disrespect that gets lobbed Fitch's way. I'm pointing out to you why Fitch gets that disrespect.

Fitch brings a lot of this on himself. He doesn't want to fight anyone in his camp, he got absolutely TORCHED by GSP and, I'm sorry, but I've seen ZERO proof that Fitch has done anything to lead anyone to believe that a rematch would end ANY differently. But, he's lobbying for a shot when he won't even fight the second best wrestler in his division and just fought Penn to a draw.

He's dictating the terms of his title runs and opponents, but you're claiming this hatred is blasphemy? Who else was able to do that?



How does Fitch bring any disrespect upon himself? He has never spoken ill of the UFC or any other fighter (even after Dana badmouthed him for not signing the exclusivity contract for the first Undisputed), and he has been incredibly humble, never requesting title shots, and never requesting specific opponents. It wasn't until recently that Fitch has started verbalizing his wanting a title shot.

A lot of people don't want to fight camp mates, I don't see how that is a character flaw. I personally don't agree with it since they are professional fighters, but this is a very common occurrence, it's just that Fitch has been highlight more so since he and Kos were vying for the same title. And why does a rematch's supposed foregone conclusion have anything to do with it? Fitch won 5 fights in a row following his defeat, including the utter destruction of Alves, so he has rightfully earned a shot at the title. It shouldn't matter of GSP is light years ahead of him or not, he earned his shot again.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 8:45:12PM

Posted by warglory

How does Fitch bring any disrespect upon himself? He has never spoken ill of the UFC or any other fighter (even after Dana badmouthed him for not signing the exclusivity contract for the first Undisputed), and he has been incredibly humble, never requesting title shots, and never requesting specific opponents. It wasn't until recently that Fitch has started verbalizing his wanting a title shot.

A lot of people don't want to fight camp mates, I don't see how that is a character flaw. I personally don't agree with it since they are professional fighters, but this is a very common occurrence, it's just that Fitch has been highlight more so since he and Kos were vying for the same title. And why does a rematch's supposed foregone conclusion have anything to do with it? Fitch won 5 fights in a row following his defeat, including the utter destruction of Alves, so he has rightfully earned a shot at the title. It shouldn't matter of GSP is light years ahead of him or not, he earned his shot again.



Coming off a draw he's demanding a title shot, that's disrespectful to the effort that BJ just gave in the octagon. How do you not see that?

I understand that a lot camp members don't want to fight each other and *I* think it's stupid. I disapprove of any fighter that refuses to fight someone in their division, ESPECIALLY, when they're a 2 or 3 fighter, just because it's their teammate.

MMA is an individual sport, it's not a team sport. Venus and Serena don't get to decide if they have to play each other. Peyton and Eli don't get to say "we don't want to compete against one another" It's not how sports works.

You play/fight against the best in order to move up. Fitch will only fight people who aren't in his camp.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when you start dictating the terms of your opponents, the brass is going to make it extra hard for you to get a title shot. You're going to have to put in MORE work since you're saying that you won't do "this, this, and this."

Also, people dislike this stuff. It turns people off of fighters that do this and makes people question whether or not they're truly even the best in their division since they won't fight very game opponents who could beat them.

BJ Penn is now at welterweight and is contending for that title shot, too. How does Fitch going to a draw with an opponent in his division rightfully earn him a title shot?

Was his portion of the draw more impressive than BJ's portion of the draw? He didn't EARN a title shot by going to a draw. He earned a rematch with the same top contender that he just fought to a draw. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

BJ wants a third shot at GSP just as badly as Fitch wants a rematch. Neither fighter *EARNED* anything in that fight except an immediate rematch.

You're making an emotional argument for Fitch while casually ignoring that he FOUGHT A DRAW.

Pookie
2/27/11 9:46:23PM

Posted by warglory

Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p...




I gotta disagree. Fitch and Penn fought to a draw. Fitch is a much bigger fighter. I think Penn solidified the fact that p4p he is better since hes a much smaller fighter and he fought his opponent to an equal conclusion.

Pookie
2/27/11 9:47:46PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Consider this:

Before the fight in an interview Fitch was asked how he was going to win, and his response was something like "Any way I want."

Come fight time, Penn won two rounds, while Fitch won one, and after the fight Penn is disappointed with himself, while Fitch is saying he deserves a title shot.

And you wonder why he gets the short end of the stick.



fonduktoe
2/27/11 11:01:54PM
Jon Fitch is a very successful fighter who, due to my own personal tastes and NOT my lack of knowledge in this sport, is someone i cannot stand to watch. I hope this was cordial enough for warglory.
warglory
2/27/11 11:35:21PM

Posted by fonduktoe

Jon Fitch is a very successful fighter who, due to my own personal tastes and NOT my lack of knowledge in this sport, is someone i cannot stand to watch. I hope this was cordial enough for warglory.



I'm sorry, I forgot I sullied your name in some past life fonduktoe, clearly this response was warranted in your defense...
warglory
2/27/11 11:45:58PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by warglory

Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p...




I gotta disagree. Fitch and Penn fought to a draw. Fitch is a much bigger fighter. I think Penn solidified the fact that p4p he is better since hes a much smaller fighter and he fought his opponent to an equal conclusion.




So you're basing their p4p status on one fight? Penn has gone 6-3-1 in his fights since 2007, with back to back losses prior to beating Matt Hughes, a non contender. Fitch has gone 9-1-1, beating anyone placed in front of him in convincing fashion, including his supposed #1 contender match with Thiago Alves, whom he obliterated. I don't see how Penn is higher up on the food chain than Fitch. At any rate, my point wasn't to compare Penn and Fitch anyway.
warglory
2/28/11 12:02:54AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Coming off a draw he's demanding a title shot, that's disrespectful to the effort that BJ just gave in the octagon. How do you not see that?



The UFC said that if Fitch beat Alves, he would be #1 contender. Fitch destroyed Alves, and of course, Dana being Dana, tossed Kos into the mix which all of a sudden created controversy. Fitch deserved the title shot, but because he refused to fight Kos, Kos got the shot for some reason, leaving Fitch to fight Penn in a completely irrelevant fight (which, admittedly turned out to be very entertaining). Fitch hasn't demanded a title shot, I don't know where you get that idea from. He was asked by various reporters what he wanted to do next, and he said he thought he was deserving of a title shot, which he is, because he deserved a title shot before he fought Penn.



I understand that a lot camp members don't want to fight each other and *I* think it's stupid. I disapprove of any fighter that refuses to fight someone in their division, ESPECIALLY, when they're a 2 or 3 fighter, just because it's their teammate.

MMA is an individual sport, it's not a team sport. Venus and Serena don't get to decide if they have to play each other. Peyton and Eli don't get to say "we don't want to compete against one another" It's not how sports works.

You play/fight against the best in order to move up. Fitch will only fight people who aren't in his camp.



So if you agree that a lot of fighters do this, than why does Fitch stand out as being particularly noteworthy in regards to this? Kos said he didn't want to fight Fitch either, yet he got a title shot, and I didn't hear anyone complaining about that one.



I've said it before and I'll say it again, when you start dictating the terms of your opponents, the brass is going to make it extra hard for you to get a title shot. You're going to have to put in MORE work since you're saying that you won't do "this, this, and this."

Also, people dislike this stuff. It turns people off of fighters that do this and makes people question whether or not they're truly even the best in their division since they won't fight very game opponents who could beat them.



When has Fitch dictated the terms of his opponents? I think it's just the opposite. Fitch has been continuously tossed up and comers simply because the UFC didn't know what to do with Fitch, despite deserving more well regarded competition. The man was placed on the undercard in his comeback fight after GSP. That's complete BS, yet Fitch put on his game face and fought Gono without question. Fitch then fought three more fights, before being given the nod with Alves, and even that wasn't enough to satisfy White and Silva. Instead, they say he needs to fight Kos, and because he refuses he is all of a sudden not being a team player? That's not fair at all.



BJ Penn is now at welterweight and is contending for that title shot, too. How does Fitch going to a draw with an opponent in his division rightfully earn him a title shot?



What gives Penn the right to contend for a title shot after losing two in a row and then beating Hughes, a non contender, in his comeback fight at 170? Penn should be below Fitch in the pecking order, former champion or not.



Was his portion of the draw more impressive than BJ's portion of the draw? He didn't EARN a title shot by going to a draw. He earned a rematch with the same top contender that he just fought to a draw. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

BJ wants a third shot at GSP just as badly as Fitch wants a rematch. Neither fighter *EARNED* anything in that fight except an immediate rematch.

You're making an emotional argument for Fitch while casually ignoring that he FOUGHT A DRAW.



You're the one arguing about Fitch's basis for a title shot on the merits of this draw, not me. Fitch deserved this shot before this fight was even imagined by Joe Silva, and still deserves it.
fonduktoe
2/28/11 12:11:21AM

Posted by warglory


Posted by fonduktoe

Jon Fitch is a very successful fighter who, due to my own personal tastes and NOT my lack of knowledge in this sport, is someone i cannot stand to watch. I hope this was cordial enough for warglory.



I'm sorry, I forgot I sullied your name in some past life fonduktoe, clearly this response was warranted in your defense...

it's just entertaining to watch someone be so ridiciously hungry to defend a single fighter. haven't seen this kind of nuthuggin since before machida beat thiago silva. you've been blasting posters for disliking fitch's style which is a more than a little silly. if someone were to say fitch sucks and should be cut than i would disagree. when someone says i personally hate watching jon fitch fight and you tell them it's because they don't understand the sport you are just being ignorant.
warglory
2/28/11 12:23:28AM

Posted by fonduktoe


Posted by warglory


Posted by fonduktoe

Jon Fitch is a very successful fighter who, due to my own personal tastes and NOT my lack of knowledge in this sport, is someone i cannot stand to watch. I hope this was cordial enough for warglory.



I'm sorry, I forgot I sullied your name in some past life fonduktoe, clearly this response was warranted in your defense...

it's just entertaining to watch someone be so ridiciously hungry to defend a single fighter. haven't seen this kind of nuthuggin since before machida beat thiago silva. you've been blasting posters for disliking fitch's style which is a more than a little silly. if someone were to say fitch sucks and should be cut than i would disagree. when someone says i personally hate watching jon fitch fight and you tell them it's because they don't understand the sport you are just being ignorant.



I have never told anyone on this site that they don't understand the sport if they say they don't like watching Fitch. That's a complete mis-representation of my entire argument.
Pookie
2/28/11 12:38:06AM

Posted by warglory


Posted by Pookie


Posted by warglory

Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p...




I gotta disagree. Fitch and Penn fought to a draw. Fitch is a much bigger fighter. I think Penn solidified the fact that p4p he is better since hes a much smaller fighter and he fought his opponent to an equal conclusion.




So you're basing their p4p status on one fight? Penn has gone 6-3-1 in his fights since 2007, with back to back losses prior to beating Matt Hughes, a non contender. Fitch has gone 9-1-1, beating anyone placed in front of him in convincing fashion, including his supposed #1 contender match with Thiago Alves, whom he obliterated. I don't see how Penn is higher up on the food chain than Fitch. At any rate, my point wasn't to compare Penn and Fitch anyway.



In fights that were against above gatekeeper level fighters, since 2007 -
Fitch - 2 -1 - 1
Penn - 5 - 3 - 1

I dont think what fitch did to Thiago Alves was anymore impressive than what Penn did to Florian. I dont think what Fitch did to Diego was more impressive than what Penn did to Diego. I dont think that the way Fitch lost to GSP was in any way more impressive than how Penn lost to GSP.

Im basing p4p status on comparative analysis, and then in direct head to head conflict it was a draw. If Less pounds v. More pounds ends in a draw, than pound for pound the less pounds performed better.
Pookie
2/28/11 12:41:22AM

Posted by warglory

What gives Penn the right to contend for a title shot after losing two in a row and then beating Hughes, a non contender, in his comeback fight at 170? Penn should be below Fitch in the pecking order, former champion or not.



Because he fought the #2 WW to a draw.

fonduktoe
2/28/11 12:44:53AM

Posted by warglory


Posted by fonduktoe


Posted by warglory


Posted by fonduktoe

Jon Fitch is a very successful fighter who, due to my own personal tastes and NOT my lack of knowledge in this sport, is someone i cannot stand to watch. I hope this was cordial enough for warglory.



I'm sorry, I forgot I sullied your name in some past life fonduktoe, clearly this response was warranted in your defense...

it's just entertaining to watch someone be so ridiciously hungry to defend a single fighter. haven't seen this kind of nuthuggin since before machida beat thiago silva. you've been blasting posters for disliking fitch's style which is a more than a little silly. if someone were to say fitch sucks and should be cut than i would disagree. when someone says i personally hate watching jon fitch fight and you tell them it's because they don't understand the sport you are just being ignorant.



I have never told anyone on this site that they don't understand the sport if they say they don't like watching Fitch. That's a complete mis-representation of my entire argument.

you've stated in ur posts that if they didn't like this fight than they're not mma fans just kickboxing fans as well as stating that if they didn't like the grappling in this fight than they have no business watching mma. you can split hairs all you want but all you're really arguing is that jon fitch is awesome and anyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid. i'm sorry that ur favorite fighter is so unpopular. maybe things will turn around for him and he'll start ko'ing people... oh wait that means i should just watch kickboxing right?
BeeR
2/28/11 6:09:18AM
you're going to need a crowbar to pry this guy off
nut sweat turns adhesive when it dries
UFC_Fanatic313
2/28/11 8:52:12AM
It was a FAIR DRAW dude hop of Fitch D**k. 10-9 10-9 8-10. And Fitch's "Dominant" position was guard. A dominant position is Back mount, Full mount, and side control etc. not guard. And him reversing BJ's back mount to full guard at the end of a round doesn't get him to win the round when penn has had his back ALMOST the whole round. The fight was awesome and if anyone thought it sucked doesn't know sh!t about MMA. Also after the fight he was like "If 13 wins isn't enough to get you a title shot i don't know what is." Hmmmm is it me or is he trying to sell a title shot after a DRAW. As Charles Barkley would say: Come onn Mannnnn. Even Joe Rogan was like its very hard to sell a tile shot after a draw. I mean at least be a little modest.
emfleek
2/28/11 9:01:22AM

Posted by UFC_Fanatic313

It was a FAIR DRAW dude hop of Fitch D**k.



And the thread is locked now thanks to the 2nd childish post in this thread.

This is an endless argument, anyways.

(WAR FITCH! )
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