Fitch Never Gets a Break...
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Fitch Never Gets a Break...
warglory
2/27/11 12:04:21PM
I am disgusted by the disrespect so many MMA fans have for Fitch. Penn vs. Fitch was not boring, it was a BJJ/wrestling clinic, and a very memorable ground battle. In my opinion, if you thought that was boring, you're not an MMA fan. Furthermore, it's infuriating that people are saying BJ outwrestled Fitch, when he didn't. I am pretty sure Fitch had just as many, if not more takedowns than Penn did, and Fitch outclassed Penn in the third with his wrestling acumen. Not only the wrestling aspect, but people are failing to see that Fitch was the better BJJ fighter in this fight too! BJ got a total of ONE submission attempt which was not effective because of Jon's defense measures, AND Jon pulled a reversal on BJ TWICE to get into a dominant position.
This was not a fair decision. Fitch outstruck Penn in all three rounds (with two and especially three being the most significant), Fitch outgrappled Penn in all three rounds, and was also the dominant offensive fighter for most of the fight.
I think the disrespect Fitch gets, one of the best fighters on the planet, is blasphemy, and the ensuing commentary surrounding this fight is ludicrous.
This was not a fair decision. Fitch outstruck Penn in all three rounds (with two and especially three being the most significant), Fitch outgrappled Penn in all three rounds, and was also the dominant offensive fighter for most of the fight.
I think the disrespect Fitch gets, one of the best fighters on the planet, is blasphemy, and the ensuing commentary surrounding this fight is ludicrous.
SpiderSilva
2/27/11 12:24:45PM
that was a dam good fight and i thought is was vary evenly matched till the 3rd. bj went in there and fitched fitch and took his back with ease multiple times. but as we all know it was a matter of time before bj ran out of gas in that type of fight. I'm just thinking is the rematch gonna be for the title if GSP moves up?
postman
2/27/11 1:00:08PM
It was a great fight! BJJ vs Wrestling Classic! I disagree when you say Fitch was the better BJJ fighter Penn took his back 2 times Fitch (I don't think) ever passed Penns guard. Penn put him in a body triangle. I agree Fitch had the better top game but BJ was hit with 149 punches in the third round and from what I can tell very little damage was taken. I did watch it on the internet so forgive me if my angle is flawed. But I agree as a trainer of a amature fighter I feel like I learn so much every time I watch a Fitch fight. With Bj being involved in this one there was all kinds of info to be picked up. I scored it 9-10 10-9 10-9 for fitch I can see a 10-8 in the third I think a 10-10 second is a stretch.
warglory
2/27/11 1:15:42PM
Posted by postman
It was a great fight! BJJ vs Wrestling Classic! I disagree when you say Fitch was the better BJJ fighter Penn took his back 2 times Fitch (I don't think) ever passed Penns guard. Penn put him in a body triangle. I agree Fitch had the better top game but BJ was hit with 149 punches in the third round and from what I can tell very little damage was taken. I did watch it on the internet so forgive me if my angle is flawed. But I agree as a trainer of a amature fighter I feel like I learn so much every time I watch a Fitch fight. With Bj being involved in this one there was all kinds of info to be picked up. I scored it 9-10 10-9 10-9 for fitch I can see a 10-8 in the third I think a 10-10 second is a stretch.
In a traditional BJJ bout, BJ would have probably walked away with a win in terms of gaining points for getting Fitch's back, but in MMA, reversals are absolutely huge, and when it comes to a dominant top guy like Fitch, this is all he had to do, and at the end of each of the first two rounds, Fitch defended beautifully, and reversed into BJ's guard, which is essentially all Fitch needs to work his magic. This is the reason why I thought Fitch was better in the BJJ dept for this fight.
TS92turbo
2/27/11 2:40:58PM
To me, I score the fight by rounds. BJ won 2. Meaning, he shouldve had the split decision if someone honestly thought Fitch won the whole fight. I agree with the scoring though. 10-9 10-9 8-10. So 28-28. Draw is fair. Cant wait to see the rematch.
postman
2/27/11 4:26:41PM
Posted by TS92turbo
To me, I score the fight by rounds. BJ won 2. Meaning, he shouldve had the split decision if someone honestly thought Fitch won the whole fight. I agree with the scoring though. 10-9 10-9 8-10. So 28-28. Draw is fair. Cant wait to see the rematch.
A split decision is when one judge scores the fight in favor of Bj and the other two scores it in favor of Fitch.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 4:30:53PM
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
BeeR
2/27/11 5:37:46PM
Im sure every one of us who says he is a boring fighter also know that he is very skilled at what he does, but that doesnt mean in ANY way, that we have to like the guy, or his fighting style.
Demand my respect for John Fitch will you, THATS ludicrous, I DEMAND John Fitch to be more exciting first.
Demand my respect for John Fitch will you, THATS ludicrous, I DEMAND John Fitch to be more exciting first.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 5:53:55PM
Posted by BeeR
Im sure every one of us who says he is a boring fighter also know that he is very skilled at what he does, but that doesnt mean in ANY way, that we have to like the guy, or his fighting style.
Demand my respect for John Fitch will you, THATS ludicrous, I DEMAND John Fitch to be more exciting first.
You're on a roll today.
warglory
2/27/11 6:03:07PM
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p, has only lost once in his UFC career, yet people continuously say (including hardcores) that the man doesn't deserve another title shot? That he's a wet blanket and doesn't deserve the title? Fitch always gets the sh!t end of the stick from the UFC and many of it's fans, and I am just really sick and tired of it as a long time Fitch supporter.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 6:10:19PM
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p, has only lost once in his UFC career, yet people continuously say (including hardcores) that the man doesn't deserve another title shot? That he's a wet blanket and doesn't deserve the title? Fitch always gets the sh!t end of the stick from the UFC and many of it's fans, and I am just really sick and tired of it as a long time Fitch supporter.
Consider this:
Before the fight in an interview Fitch was asked how he was going to win, and his response was something like "Any way I want."
Come fight time, Penn won two rounds, while Fitch won one, and after the fight Penn is disappointed with himself, while Fitch is saying he deserves a title shot.
And you wonder why he gets the short end of the stick.
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 6:10:45PM
Sure Fitch may win his fights and is good at what he does, but some fans are turned off by his style. At no point in that fight did I ever get the impression that Fitch was going to finish it, and therein lies part of the problem, imo.
warglory
2/27/11 6:11:24PM
Posted by BeeR
Im sure every one of us who says he is a boring fighter also know that he is very skilled at what he does, but that doesnt mean in ANY way, that we have to like the guy, or his fighting style.
Demand my respect for John Fitch will you, THATS ludicrous, I DEMAND John Fitch to be more exciting first.
So he has to entertain you in order to earn your respect? That's one of the most asinine things I have ever read on this site.
How about you learn to appreciate what he does instead of writing him off as a boring fighter? His job isn't to make you high five your buddy for a hella cool KO, it's to perfect himself as a mixed martial artist and win, that's it, and he deserves your respect. It's his body he puts on the line, therefore it's his right to choose how he fights in the most effective manner as possible. Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin, Stephan Bonnar, Chris Lytle, Jens Pulver, Marcus Davis and so many others are entertaining fighters because they throw down, but they will never be champions for the first time or ever again because they don't have what it takes to hang with elite strikers and grapplers.
And spell his name right at least.
warglory
2/27/11 6:13:35PM
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p, has only lost once in his UFC career, yet people continuously say (including hardcores) that the man doesn't deserve another title shot? That he's a wet blanket and doesn't deserve the title? Fitch always gets the sh!t end of the stick from the UFC and many of it's fans, and I am just really sick and tired of it as a long time Fitch supporter.
Consider this:
Before the fight in an interview Fitch was asked how he was going to win, and his response was something like "Any way I want."
Come fight time, Penn won two rounds, while Fitch won one, and after the fight Penn is disappointed with himself, while Fitch is saying he deserves a title shot.
And you wonder why he gets the short end of the stick.
I don't get your logic. You seem to assume that I thought Penn won two rounds...?
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 6:19:32PM
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 6:34:25PM
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p, has only lost once in his UFC career, yet people continuously say (including hardcores) that the man doesn't deserve another title shot? That he's a wet blanket and doesn't deserve the title? Fitch always gets the sh!t end of the stick from the UFC and many of it's fans, and I am just really sick and tired of it as a long time Fitch supporter.
Consider this:
Before the fight in an interview Fitch was asked how he was going to win, and his response was something like "Any way I want."
Come fight time, Penn won two rounds, while Fitch won one, and after the fight Penn is disappointed with himself, while Fitch is saying he deserves a title shot.
And you wonder why he gets the short end of the stick.
I don't get your logic. You seem to assume that I thought Penn won two rounds...?
My logic is that 2 of the three Judges gave Penn 2 rounds.
sparky
2/27/11 6:38:06PM
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
It doesnt make mine it actually makes me sick to my stomach to hear and read some of the things these so-called MMA fans say.... I feel more then half of the people who watch it dont understand it anyways!!!!
warglory
2/27/11 6:42:14PM
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Posted by warglory
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
I don't agree that "Fitch never gets a break" at all. Fitch has won every fight in the UFC except for this one and GSP. How has he "not gotten a break?"
This bout was the definition of a draw. I even said it before they announced the scores. I told everyone watching with me "this will be a draw, I can guarantee it"
Within your post lies my point. Fitch is probably one of the top 3 best fighters in the UFC, if not p4p, has only lost once in his UFC career, yet people continuously say (including hardcores) that the man doesn't deserve another title shot? That he's a wet blanket and doesn't deserve the title? Fitch always gets the sh!t end of the stick from the UFC and many of it's fans, and I am just really sick and tired of it as a long time Fitch supporter.
Consider this:
Before the fight in an interview Fitch was asked how he was going to win, and his response was something like "Any way I want."
Come fight time, Penn won two rounds, while Fitch won one, and after the fight Penn is disappointed with himself, while Fitch is saying he deserves a title shot.
And you wonder why he gets the short end of the stick.
I don't get your logic. You seem to assume that I thought Penn won two rounds...?
My logic is that 2 of the three Judges gave Penn 2 rounds.
I still don't understand your logic, sorry. Are you saying he gets the sh!t end because you think he is arrogant? If so, than I think that is the direct opposite of what I think of Fitch.
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 6:43:10PM
Posted by sparky
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
It doesnt make mine it actually makes me sick to my stomach to hear and read some of the things these so-called MMA fans say.... I feel more then half of the people who watch it dont understand it anyways!!!!
I just don't let stuff said by strangers affect me in a negative way.
warglory
2/27/11 6:44:05PM
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
You're saying I'm blatantly biased?
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 6:56:35PM
Posted by warglory
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
You're saying I'm blatantly biased?
You seem overly concerned that everybody gives respect to the guy, I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin...
BlueSkiesBurn
2/27/11 6:57:27PM
Posted by warglory
I still don't understand your logic, sorry. Are you saying he gets the sh!t end because you think he is arrogant? If so, than I think that is the direct opposite of what I think of Fitch.
I'll elaborate for you then.
I think the disrespect Fitch gets, one of the best fighters on the planet, is blasphemy, and the ensuing commentary surrounding this fight is ludicrous.
This was your initial thesis statement.
I said that Jon Fitch lost two of the rounds. It doesn't really matter what you think should have happened, or how YOU felt the fight should have been scored. You're not a judge. Two of the three judges felt that Penn won two rounds. Blatant Homerism isn't going to change the fact that Fitch lost two of rounds.
That being said, the fight ended in a draw. Those are the facts. Irrefutable facts of the fight.
After the fight, BJ Penn was noticeably upset, felt he didn't do enough, was displeased with his performance, and shockingly humble.
Fitch, on the other hand, is demanding that he should get a title shot when he JUST, literally, JUST fought to a draw. On what planet does a tie mean that you deserve the title shot?
Are you really failing to see this? A tie has never and WILL NEVER mean that you won.
Demanding your title shot in-front of a future HOF'er and all-time great that just fought you to a draw is going to earn you the disrespect and ire of the fans.
Arrogance and dismissive attitudes are qualities that cause people to dislike other people. Bisping can win every fight from here to eternity and I won't like the guy ever because of his attitude and actions.
You're mistaking people not liking Fitch for people not respecting Fitch. The two do not have to go hand in hand. I will happily point out that Fitch is one of the best in the world at what he does, but I cannot stand the guy because of his attitude and I don't really care for his one dimensional victories. That doesn't mean I don't respect him.
BeeR
2/27/11 7:02:38PM
yeah, he totally doesn't get it at all, we all respect fitch dude, some of us would just rather watch paint dry then watch him fight.
warglory
2/27/11 7:05:40PM
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
Posted by warglory
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
It cracks me up to read the comments of somebody with such blantant bias, it makes my day more enjoyable.
You're saying I'm blatantly biased?
You seem overly concerned that everybody gives respect to the guy, I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin...
I'm not biased, it's just infuriating that so many fans, including die hard fans, have the inability to acknowledge Fitch, usually due to a lack of understanding of his game. Trust me, I'm not a nuthugger, just a frustrated fan of the sport.
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:11:37PM
People can both acknowledge his abilities and not like the way he fights at the same time...Most people, atleast on this forum, have a very good understanding of the sport. Some enjoy watching him fight, while others don't, different strokes for different folks.
warglory
2/27/11 7:11:57PM
Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Posted by warglory
I still don't understand your logic, sorry. Are you saying he gets the sh!t end because you think he is arrogant? If so, than I think that is the direct opposite of what I think of Fitch.
I'll elaborate for you then.
I think the disrespect Fitch gets, one of the best fighters on the planet, is blasphemy, and the ensuing commentary surrounding this fight is ludicrous.
This was your initial thesis statement.
I said that Jon Fitch lost two of the rounds. It doesn't really matter what you think should have happened, or how YOU felt the fight should have been scored. You're not a judge. Two of the three judges felt that Penn won two rounds. Blatant Homerism isn't going to change the fact that Fitch lost two of rounds.
That being said, the fight ended in a draw. Those are the facts. Irrefutable facts of the fight.
After the fight, BJ Penn was noticeably upset, felt he didn't do enough, was displeased with his performance, and shockingly humble.
Fitch, on the other hand, is demanding that he should get a title shot when he JUST, literally, JUST fought to a draw. On what planet does a tie mean that you deserve the title shot?
Are you really failing to see this? A tie has never and WILL NEVER mean that you won.
Demanding your title shot in-front of a future HOF'er and all-time great that just fought you to a draw is going to earn you the disrespect and ire of the fans.
Arrogance and dismissive attitudes are qualities that cause people to dislike other people. Bisping can win every fight from here to eternity and I won't like the guy ever because of his attitude and actions.
You're mistaking people not liking Fitch for people not respecting Fitch. The two do not have to go hand in hand. I will happily point out that Fitch is one of the best in the world at what he does, but I cannot stand the guy because of his attitude and I don't really care for his one dimensional victories. That doesn't mean I don't respect him.
I know the difference between people who don't like Fitch's style, and those that are disrespectful. Go over to the news announcement of this draw victory for a clear understanding of the difference in my opinion. Saying Fitch lays and prays is blatantly incorrect. Saying Fitch stalls is incorrect, etc. By saying these things, these folks are not merely showing a dislike for the man, they are mis-representing him, and show blatant disrespect. I don't care if people think Fitch is boring, and I'd ask anyone to find a quote of me stating otherwise, that's pure opinion. But when fans start to discredit what the man has done, that's when I start getting irritated, and that's the point of this whole thread.
warglory
2/27/11 7:15:07PM
Posted by FrankTheTank1181
People can both acknowledge his abilities and not like the way he fights at the same time...Most people, atleast on this forum, have a very good understanding of the sport. Some enjoy watching him fight, while others don't, different strokes for different folks.
You are totally mis-understanding my point. It's the people that don't acknowledge his abilities and accomplishments that bother me, and that happens all that time, and I am sick of it. I don't know why you think I am claiming people who merely don't like Fitch's style are being targeted.
warglory
2/27/11 7:16:47PM
Posted by BeeR
yeah, he totally doesn't get it at all, we all respect fitch dude, some of us would just rather watch paint dry then watch him fight.
You really believe Fitch gets the respect he deserves?
prozacnation1978
2/27/11 7:19:39PM
I gotta agree
Fitch is one of the coolest fighters I have met
Ufc treats him badly. He should have had his title shot already
Him and yushin okami
If gsp moves up in weight do the right thing
Fitch vs condit for title
Penn gets next shot. Gives him time to gain the necessary muscle mass for him at 170. After the year penn has had. Two losses a win and a draw
Penn needs to take some time off
Fitch is one of the coolest fighters I have met
Ufc treats him badly. He should have had his title shot already
Him and yushin okami
If gsp moves up in weight do the right thing
Fitch vs condit for title
Penn gets next shot. Gives him time to gain the necessary muscle mass for him at 170. After the year penn has had. Two losses a win and a draw
Penn needs to take some time off
FrankTheTank1181
2/27/11 7:24:14PM
Posted by prozacnation1978
I gotta agree
Fitch is one of the coolest fighters I have met
Ufc treats him badly. He should have had his title shot already
Him and yushin okami
If gsp moves up in weight do the right thing
Fitch vs condit for title
Penn gets next shot. Gives him time to gain the necessary muscle mass for him at 170. After the year penn has had. Two losses a win and a draw
Penn needs to take some time off
He had his title shot and he got beat, in a dominating fashion.
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